Martino's comments on KJ. (3 Viewers)

[d'kid]

Dang, I love Watching a Train Wreck.

Tom M said KJ's the best P/S driver in his opinion in the National Digger... I read it, That's Tom's opionion...

Personally, Everyone in Pro Stock can row a 5 speed better than I can and cut a better bloody light....

That's why they do it for a living and I don't

 

[Rajunz]

Excuse me Sir,the SSR didn't come from Martino,that came from me and I want total credit for it too.If you thought I was quoteing Martino,I'm sorry but I would have put it in " " if I were.I'm new to this board and I'm sure enjoying it.

Give that man some "Mater Cred"!

 

[nick name]

Ok, let me ask all you WJ fans out there a question?
When the whole nitrous thing went down how good was WJ?...

And tons of teams were using Nitrous, thats a fact and we all know it.

Stuff like this got the Mater the previous reputation that was so richly deserved. I wondered if the renaissance would continue but my question just got answered.

Justin, please get your facts straight before you post. I have NO idea where you get your information but my honest advice would be to stop listening to them, or believing everything a keyboard jockey writes on the internet.

The only team that FOR SURE ran Nitrous at an NHRA race back then was the Gliddens. Period. The Eckman deal in Columbus happened before they ever hit the track.

I don't remember seeing you in the PS pits back then. Or the teardown barn or staging lanes, either. Did you get your information from anybody who actually had ANYTHING to do with PS racing?

I suspect not.

My personal standard is to have first hand knowledge of hard facts before I state something is true. I suppose a lot of people don't think that way, but it sure keeps one from being embarrassed in front of thousands of people by talking out their a$$.

 

[Jake]

Silver Spoon Racing, should be changed to Everyone is jealous of our success Racing! Greg and Jason are very good drivers, plain and simple. The setups they use just don't fall into their laps, they work their asses off fine tuning those cars.
Granted, if you put Dave Connolly in Greg's car, he would be untouchable. The rest of the field is to the point where if they cut an excellent light and get a few hundreths advantage off the line, chances are Team Summit isn't going to chase them down them like they used to. Just look at the number of holeshot losses by Greg and Jason this year.

 

[.]

The rest of the field is to the point where if they cut an excellent light and get a few hundreths advantage off the line, chances are Team Summit isn't going to chase them down them like they used to. Just look at the number of holeshot losses by Greg and Jason this year.

I don't follow P/S too much, but have been a little bit this year. Can anyone say what the difference has been for these teams catching up? In other words, what specifically is it? Engine parts? Which ones? Bearings? Cylinder heads?
I surmise it's nascar engine building technology.(???)

 

[jpee]

There are a lot of knowledgeable people contributing to this thread.. You more knowledgeable guys (Jackee, Vincent, Dan Bennet, Bobby, Mike) I've raced.. mostly in Bracket.. but Did run Comp elim for 2 year Wayyyy back... From reading this thread there have been (innuendos, or hints that many, (or more than 2) PS teams have used NO2 in the past.. The only team, person I know who was "CAUGHT RED HANDED" was Eckman when the bottle blew up , it was hidden in the dry sump oil tank..

My question is "IF" so many PS teams were using NO2 in the past.. was NHRA Tech THAT INCOMPETENT as to never catch ONE... As far as I know they only caught Eckman and that was only because it blew up in the pits...

Rumor has it they caught Alderman, but because of his sponsor (Mopar) they (NHRA) did not want to lose Mopar so there was a very unusual Break In at the Alderman shop (Wayne County).... and after that he was never competitive again..

My point is how can so many (IF That Many) PS car cheat and use NO2 and get away with it.. when NHRA was so great that 2-3 yrs ago they were able to find a wrist pin that was a few grams light?

I need some kind of explanation,, I cant believe so many PS got NO2 past NHRA inspection unless Stevie Wonder Was Doing The Inspecting?

 

[Buzzz Miller]

Allow me to tell you this much. In speaking with the name printed on the side of the car when Eckman was hammered for using nitrous, this was not his first time. He was caught with it MULTIPLE times in just a few events. Every time, they told him to get this stuff off the car, and not bring it back. They further discussed that they did not want to make his sponsor upset, so they slapped him on the wrist and let him go, just to have it brought back two weeks later hidden somewhere else.
When the bottle exploded, there was no more hiding it, so they made a huge scene, trying to look tough on this nitrous deal. But in reality they turned their backs again and again and again for sponsorship dollars, for a big name in the sport, and whatever else motives they may have had.
Tells me tons about real cheating and the NHRA.
(Oh yeah. The man that spoke to me also stated that he told him directly to stop this cheating junk, but he did not.)

 

[Rajunz]

...............The only team that FOR SURE ran Nitrous at an NHRA race back then was the Gliddens........................

................My question is "IF" so many PS teams were using NO2 in the past.. was NHRA Tech THAT INCOMPETENT as to never catch ONE... As far as I know they only caught Eckman and that was only because it blew up in the pits.......................... I need some kind of explanation,, I cant believe so many PS got NO2 past NHRA inspection unless Stevie Wonder Was Doing The Inspecting?

Just to make sure that there is no confusion, it WAS NOT Bob Glidden's team that ran Nitrous, it was his son's Bill and Rusty. The two of them kept telling Bob that the other teams were duping him, that they were running nitrous. Bob wouldn't believe them, he said that there was NO WAY that they would get it past tech inspection. At that point Bill and Rusty went out and built their own nitrous system that did indeed get past the tech inspection. Once they ran it they then showed Bob, NHRA and the world how they did it. Ran it through the frame rails and through the hood pins then released it into the hood scoop.

Read the 3rd story down, it's kind of funny now......................................
http://www.dragracingonline.com/agent1320/v_8_6.html

 

[Joker]

Thanks Buzz And Lance, Apparently Dan Either Didnt Get The Memo Or Had Blinders On. Pesonally, I Didnt Think I Threw Wj Under The Bus At All, I Just Asked A Simple Question Which No One Has Answered Yet By The Way. My Point Exactly.

 

[nick name]

Thanks Buzz And Lance, Apparently Dan Either Didnt Get The Memo Or Had Blinders On. Pesonally, I Didnt Think I Threw Wj Under The Bus At All, I Just Asked A Simple Question Which No One Has Answered Yet By The Way. My Point Exactly.

Justin,

I really have no idea what you're referring to. What memo? And I certainly didn't have any blinders on during that time and very much resent the fact that you would write such a thing. Who in the H#ll are you to question my honesty?

But then again, I replied because I wanted to comment on your wholesale disparagement of a "ton of teams" so I'm not surprised you'd choose to take a shot at me instead of addressing the points I raised.

The "A Simple Question Which No One Has Answered Yet By The Way" part is hugely ironic since you managed to duck all of mine.

As for the answer to your simple question, WJ was THAT far ahead of everyone else at the time. He always had the big MPH because he ran rpm that no one else could. He had much better aerodynamics on his car which few people at the time noticed. He was changing gear sets between passes when most competitors weren't even servicing their clutch. He had gear sets which he paid big dollars to have forged and machined since Lenco didn't provide the ratios he wanted.

99% of competitive Pro Stock teams were buying parts and modifying them to their needs and ideas. WJ was designing and contracting the manufacture of his own parts. The RPM thing I mentioned previously was mostly due to him finding a company that would build valve springs of materials and construction WJ devised. No one else could run that high because even the few teams that knew the springs existed didn't know exactly what they were and couldn't buy them if they did.

I could go on, but not sure why I should. Is suspect this is going to be wasted anyhow.

I'm still waiting to see a list of "tons of teams" and as to how you "know" all the "facts" you stated in your earlier message.

I have the impression that you're sorta new to the sport, so I should tell you that during the entire nitrous debacle that no serious competitor I know of EVER alleged that WJ was cheating.

I didn't respond to your message because I thought WJ needed defending. No one seriously accused him then or now. I responded because I was amazed at what you think you know, and wonder how you managed to get such amazing ideas.

 

[nick name]

Allow me to tell you this much. In speaking with the name printed on the side of the car when Eckman was hammered for using nitrous, this was not his first time. He was caught with it MULTIPLE times in just a few events. Every time, they told him to get this stuff off the car, and not bring it back. They further discussed that they did not want to make his sponsor upset, so they slapped him on the wrist and let him go, just to have it brought back two weeks later hidden somewhere else.
When the bottle exploded, there was no more hiding it, so they made a huge scene, trying to look tough on this nitrous deal. But in reality they turned their backs again and again and again for sponsorship dollars, for a big name in the sport, and whatever else motives they may have had.
Tells me tons about real cheating and the NHRA.
(Oh yeah. The man that spoke to me also stated that he told him directly to stop this cheating junk, but he did not.)

Buzz,

I appreciate your story but the one I was told was slightly different. Like you, I am not at liberty to name my source but his name was on the car also.

I never heard of repeated usage of a bottle. I was told that due to a performance downturn, one of the principals on the team was extremely worried (probably for no good reason) that the sponsor was unhappy and would be leaving.

That person hatched the plan on his own and even sent the rest of the team away that evening on a ruse. The next morning when the oil heater was turned on, it didn't take all that long for it to reach critical mass.

All I can say is that I view the team as consisting of a very steady, respected racer and a mad scientist prone to sometimes questionable behavior. It shouldn't be too difficult to decide which of the parties was the one to stay at the trailer late that night.

It's interesting to hear other sides. My first question is that I can't imagine how the car could have been run multiple times. It was such a spectacularly dumb idea that I can't imagine how the car could have even done a burnout if it couldn't stand an hour or two in the pits with the oil heater on.

Second, I honestly don't remember the sponsor having all that much a reputation as a heavyweight with NHRA. Not to say there weren't sponsors who were very effective at lobbying the organization, but I just never heard anyone consider them in that league.

Who knows, but I appreciate you adding a point I had never heard before.

 

[spike 06]

Maybe some of those competitors were mixing elements in their gas tanks back then! Anyone remember that scandal?

 

[Buzzz Miller]

There is another point.
As time and distance from the actual event increase, we will only get further and further from the truth.
Maybe the guy was feeding me a line. I have known him for years, and has always been brutally honest with me in the past. But that is just what he told me in confidence. He also told me some of the ways it was concealed. Different each time. The oil tank was merely the last idea. (And not a very good one.)
It is too bad. I would have loved to see Jerry keep on running. He was a decent guy and a hard worker. Just needed to keep working hard until he was on another winning streak.
And, back in the day, I thought Pennzoil was a pretty good sponsor for the NHRA and NHRA teams. They sure are not much anymore.
-edit- Remember the gas scandal? Yes! Everything from taped tablets in the top blind spot of the fuel cell at fuel fill-up, magic in the return/loop lines, and home-made wonders before the spec fuels.

 

[Joker]

Dan, I am in no way questioning you. I just stated that with all the teams that were using nitrous, and yes there were teams who were caught several times, that I could never understand that even with them using nitrous and if WJ wasnt then how could he outrun them? Thats all. I never said he used it, I dont know if he did or not but I do know for a fact that 2 teams DID use it (not including Dodge Boys and Eckman or Billy G), and I know there are several more that were suspected of it. You dont go from not being able to qualify to a top 5 car overnight without a reason why.

If WJ was just that much better than the rest of them, even if they were using nitrous, then congrats to WJ. Thats some serious HP if you can outrun someone all motor to them having nitrous. I have never said anyone works harder than WJ and he's most surely earned everything he has done in the sport.

No one has ever came up for a reason on how he could outrun them using nitrous, so atleast you did that. And no, I'm not new to the sport, I have been at a race track since the day I was born practically.

 

[Prestaged]

I could never understand that even with them using nitrous and if WJ wasnt then how could he outrun them? If WJ was just that much better than the rest of them, even if they were using nitrous, then congrats to WJ. Thats some serious HP.

Justin: I think you are finally starting to understand what WJ has contributed to the class over the decades.

 

[nick name]

It is too bad. I would have loved to see Jerry keep on running. He was a decent guy and a hard worker.

I totally agree.

I apologize for missing the fact that you said the bottle had been hidden in other places previously. My comments about the bad idea regarding the oil tank don't make much sense as to whether gas was used more than once.

I do remember the team going on a tear but have no idea how they managed to do that. I probably still have the incremental sheets around here somewhere, but off the top of my head I don't remember their top end or back half being all that far from what everyone else was running.

As we said, it's a shame that it happened and a lesser shame that the whole story will probably never come out.

 

[nick name]

Dan, I am in no way questioning you. I just stated that with all the teams that were using nitrous, and yes there were teams who were caught several times, that I could never understand that even with them using nitrous and if WJ wasnt then how could he outrun them? Thats all. I never said he used it, I dont know if he did or not but I do know for a fact that 2 teams DID use it (not including Dodge Boys and Eckman or Billy G), and I know there are several more that were suspected of it. You dont go from not being able to qualify to a top 5 car overnight without a reason why.

If WJ was just that much better than the rest of them, even if they were using nitrous, then congrats to WJ. Thats some serious HP if you can outrun someone all motor to them having nitrous. I have never said anyone works harder than WJ and he's most surely earned everything he has done in the sport.

No one has ever came up for a reason on how he could outrun them using nitrous, so atleast you did that. And no, I'm not new to the sport, I have been at a race track since the day I was born practically.

You're not questioning me?
How about "Apparently Dan Either Didnt Get The Memo Or Had Blinders On"?

You're stating that I was unaware or that I chose to ignore certain facts. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You wrote it for the whole world to see so please don't insult us all by pretending you didn't.

Or "yes there were teams who were caught several times".

One more time, who were they? And how do you know for sure to make such a statement?

"I do know for a fact that 2 teams DID use it (not including Dodge Boys and Eckman or Billy G)"

How do you know for a fact?
Were you a member of one of the teams?
Were you a member of another team?
Were you an NHRA tech official?

You're stating some strong things which can serve to smear a lot of honest racers. I'd really like to hear how you "know for a fact".

So put up or shut up. Like I said, I sure don't remember you being involved in any way that would provide you the information you say you have, but I didn't know everyone on the tour.

And please don't come back with a story about your buddy's brother who was neighbors with a guy who knew someone that worked for a Pro Stock team. Or that you read it online.

You've taken the opportunity to spout your nonsense in front of thousands of people. Since I have never heard of you or your credentials, I'm challenging you to back up what you say.

Probably your best bet at this point is just to not reply and go away since I have a strong impression you have never even talked to a professional racer nor one of their crewmembers.

I'm happy to hear that you've been around tracks since you were born, but I made the statement since you don't seem to have much knowlege of that era of drag racing. I just had the feeling I was trading messages with someone whose experience only went back four or five years

 

[nick name]

Maybe some of those competitors were mixing elements in their gas tanks back then! Anyone remember that scandal?

There was lots of crazy stuff going on back then. At one time, the phone lines for a manufacturer in Terre Haute (who provided mostly gokart fuels) was burning up as everybody tried to get the special stuff.

I remember a year at the Houston test session (long before it was organized into the Superbowl) where the event wasn't big enough for any of the major vendors to show up.

Normally you'd get your racing fuel from one of the large distributors, but that year the distribution was left to a local dealer who was clearly overwhelmed at all these teams showing up buying more fuel that he had probably sold the entire previous year.

Unless you had a dyno and were burning fuel, you didn't keep any over the winter. Fresh is better, so everyone was going to get their first load for the new racing season.

Not only did the supplier show up a day late and cause some teams to miss the first day of testing, but the fuel was delivered in an open pickup by a kid in a ratty t-shirt.

I grabbed our drum but happend to notice there was a special small drum of C-14X. Hmm, I'd heard of C-14, but never saw any X before. Amazingly enough, along with the special label a prominent racer's last name was on the drum in magic marker. I really don't think that was supposed to happen.

That racer began running REALLY good and wound up winning more than one championship. I still wonder what was in the drum.

 

[afx421]

k.j has definatly had the better of the 2 johnson cars for the last few years. with the new points system, he will be in the running every year to win it now. he really deserved a championship, k.j and doug kalitta are the 2 best drivers never to win one yet.

 

[scotty]

Justin,

As for the answer to your simple question, WJ was THAT far ahead of everyone else at the time. He always had the big MPH because he ran rpm that no one else could. He had much better aerodynamics on his car which few people at the time noticed. He was changing gear sets between passes when most competitors weren't even servicing their clutch. He had gear sets which he paid big dollars to have forged and machined since Lenco didn't provide the ratios he wanted.

99% of competitive Pro Stock teams were buying parts and modifying them to their needs and ideas. WJ was designing and contracting the manufacture of his own parts. The RPM thing I mentioned previously was mostly due to him finding a company that would build valve springs of materials and construction WJ devised. No one else could run that high because even the few teams that knew the springs existed didn't know exactly what they were and couldn't buy them if they did.

[COLOR]

Mr. Bennett it is a pleasure seeing you post here. And I would like to thank you and Buzzz for your contributions to this discussion.

First, to address the original post, that is high praise coming from someone like Martino. I have always felt that KJ is a championship waiting to happen, he just never seemed to get a break on raceday. If Tommy says he's good, then that's good enough for me.

Now to address the quote from Dan, this is EXACTLY what I thought about WJ during all the nitrous stuff. At that time, is when I feel WJ had the most on the field for reasons like what Dan stated above. BTW, guess who was his crew chief at the time?

Regarding Eckman/Orndorff Racing, I don't think they were sponsored by Penzoil during the time of the "incident". Weren't they sponsored by the same group that sponsors the Worshams now? I could be wrong but I distinctly remember that when Dick Sherman got the car it was red/white/blue and remained competitive with a different powerplant.

Keep the info coming guys. Good stuff!