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Jim Head @ Comp Plus
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Rexfiles
Nitro Member
I'm glad they have Jim Head over there basically leading the charge.
I don't think that there is a smarter owner/tuner/driver out there, independent to boot, w/a very fast car.
I agree on 1000' Nitro racing, how anyone cannot see the logic is incomprehensible to me.
Must be a right brain/left brain thing?
REX
I know this seems like the proverbial dead horse, but here's my opinion: I would rather keep the quarter-mile, and have slower cars. I want the thunder to last longer. 1000 foot racing shortens time the cars are under power, and after awhile, they will start getting to the 1000 ft mark even faster. I really don't think we need 335mph racing, impressive as it is. So to me, it makes more sense to come up with a new combo, set the clock back a bit, by limiting the amount of fuel burned and whatever else makes sense, so that we can have 300 mph cars that are safer, and less prone to destruction. One thing Jim Head said on TV that surprised me was that he felt there is a huge difference between 300 & 330, regarding the energy involved in moving at that speed. A lot of us have said & thought, if you crash at 300 or 330, what's the difference? Apparently a lot. I'd rather watch a race over the quarter mile, even if they are only going 300ish, than watch 330mph race cars shut off at 1000 ft.
Rexfiles
Nitro Member
OK, this is my logic.
I think a lot of tracks, E-town probably the most dangerous, are just too short.
I remember in 1989 (or thereabouts), as speeds were looking like they were going to top 300 pretty soon, NHRA was concerned with slowing them down.
So 1000' racing was strongly considered.
I gotta' find the issue of Nat Dragster..........the one that got me all twisted up, (I have every issue dating back to 1983
) when I wrote a looooong letter to the NHRA, stating my displeasure........how dare they, etc.Well, They did get mucho flack over this, and around that time 2.90 rear gears were changed to 3.20.
THAT was SUPPOSED, ahem, supposed, to slow them down
And ever since then it has been the same ol' same ol'. It will work for awhile, then the speeds will rise.
As far as the argument that the wick will shorten. How? If teams are only allowed what they are running now, stay within the rules
, no changes from right now, the cars will run up to the limiter, and then shut off.I've been to eighth mile races, and engine damage occurs, though rarely.
Virtually ever major explosion I have seen is after the 1000' mark.
Added engine revolutions and strain.
There are many very smart people behind this idea now, not just me. I'm not that smart anyway.
Owners, tuners, and drivers.
They are saying enough is enough.
I will take their word for it, its their LIVES, its our entertainment.
REX
Watchman
Nitro Member
Seems like I read someone on another thread talking about the same concept
of using stop jets on an aircraft carrier. I even mentioned Jim as the guy to perfect it.
There were many doubts but each one had a simple solution.
I actually shared this with Dan Olsen at Eric Medlens funeral service.
I am glad they are working on it.
I think it would work. It would stop the car and it would not tear it up.
This is all not needed if they go to 1000 foot.
If they keep it at 1320 then this would be one part of an overlapping sytem where you are not depending on any one thing to stop the car.
(concrete should not be one of them)
mike
of using stop jets on an aircraft carrier. I even mentioned Jim as the guy to perfect it.
There were many doubts but each one had a simple solution.
I actually shared this with Dan Olsen at Eric Medlens funeral service.
I am glad they are working on it.
I think it would work. It would stop the car and it would not tear it up.
This is all not needed if they go to 1000 foot.
If they keep it at 1320 then this would be one part of an overlapping sytem where you are not depending on any one thing to stop the car.
(concrete should not be one of them)
mike
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JL
Nitro Member
What is on the back of those trucks you see on the freeway before people are working... It looks like it is big springs or something to obsorb a big hit from behind when a lane is closed. Does anyone know whay I am talking about. That would destroy the body, but could be the last resort...
Execllent work Bobby, and Jim Head for President (at least of the NHRA)
Execllent work Bobby, and Jim Head for President (at least of the NHRA)
Rexfiles
Nitro Member
Irony can be a fickle thing. Who's to say for sure he would not won another, or many??
Who knows.
If last week at E-Town, the race went to 1000'?
We almost certainly would not be having this discussion
REX
Watchman
Nitro Member
What is needed is an overlapping mutistage system. Where it is not dependant on any one stage. Each stage would be the least possible damage to the car with the best chance of stopping the car.
If a stage fails then the next would be in place but would have a greater chance of damage to the car but have a greater chance of stopping the car.
Satge #1
Parachutes. They should be 100% fire proof. They should be directed out and away from the car. ( The problem with Scott Kallitta's was the fact that the bodies now require pins that prevent it from releasing. When his body blew apart the back section tilted up but remained attached. The parachutes came out pointing down at the wheelie bars).
Stage # 2
Brakes and possibly a system where they can be engaged if the driver is knocked out. One of the timers could engage the brakes at a certain point if the driver has not. Along with an automatic fuel shutoff.
Stage # 3
A series of cables similar to those on an aircraft carrier. Many cables that would allow it many best chances to catch the car. They can be small diameter and be able to stretch. The same way bungee jumping cables work. Obviously stronger but the same concept. Each cable caught would apply more stopping force and the impact would be gradual.
Stage # 4
A net that would do as stated above in the previous post. That would absorb the energy. It may damage the car but it would be necessary.
Stage # 5
A sand trap. tested and designed to keep the car from flipping end over end.
Stage # 6
Another net simliar to the first one but after the sand trap.
Stage # 7
Water barrels simliar to those used to stop runaway semi. and used on guard rails. 3 rows 10 wide. Greater damage but a cushioning impact ( better than concrete)
Stage # 8
A clear path
Remove all obstacles. Trees , forests, concrete walls, cranes, metal posts, houses. For highways put in Rail Road crossing gates to stop traffic.
If this was in place Scott would still be here.
Greater cost? money yes cost no
worth it ? yes.
mike
Bobby
Nitro Member
Irony can be a fickle thing. Who's to say for sure he would not won another, or many??
Who knows.
If last week at E-Town, the race went to 1000'?
We almost certainly would not be having this discussion
REX
They could still race to 1320 safely if they'd back these cars down somehow, and create runoff areas that would actually contain these cars. There's no reason they can't do it.
Are we really going to change the length of the dragstrip because Etown had a support pole directly in the path of the right lane? I mean seriously that's where it is. The car hit the sand and launched into it. Fix that, don't ruin the sport.
They don't need to run 4.70 at 330 to be entertaining .
Every other major motorsport has reduced speeds to increase safety.
And they are all just as much fun to watch as they were before.
well,,,except nascar...
Why does Jim Head and others wait for a tragedy like this to come forward, saying how they've been pushing for changes all along! And how NHRA wouldn't listen to them? If E-town is such a death trap like Jim Head says it is, why did he race there year after year? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Rexfiles
Nitro Member
They could still race to 1320 safely if they'd back these cars down somehow, and create runoff areas that would actually contain these cars. There's no reason they can't do it.
Are we really going to change the length of the dragstrip because Etown had a support pole directly in the path of the right lane? I mean seriously that's where it is. The car hit the sand and launched into it. Fix that, don't ruin the sport.
They don't need to run 4.70 at 330 to be entertaining .
Every other major motorsport has reduced speeds to increase safety.
And they are all just as much fun to watch as they were before.
well,,,except nascar...
The thing is..........its not you, or me, that sits in one of these bombs.
Scelzi just said the same thing today on Bubba's show. Force and Coil, AND AJ and TPed, Head and Wilk.
What do they know, or more appropo, what do...........we, know, that they do not.
I do not see these things backing down for long, heck, there is a solid history of this being tried, over and over and over and..........
On top of this, lets scrap all our stuff and use a totally different combination.........next week...........or.........when?
This gonna' happen again? Soon? Later? Who knows.
Right now, shortening the track works right now. Right now.
I know I am not Scott's family, a close friend, crew member, any of that.
But I WAS there........ not implying anything here (WHEW.......this is like a Political discussion
) And I had a brutally hard time with it, and really do not ever need to see anything like that again.
I will never see a Nitro pass again the same way.
Eventually I will go back, but for the rest of the year I am planning a hiatus.
These motors are under too much strain for just enough extra time to make them lethal.
Like I said, a lot of the DRIVERS are on board. Hell, maybe all.
And again, I feel no need to second guess them, because it will not meet MY expectations, or sufficiently entertain me. Of course not at the expense of my life, but theirs.
REX
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Rex, you're 100% right on. It's time to go to 1,000Ft. No costly rule changes, very little cost to the tracks, (just add a MPH light) they already have an ET at 1,000.
It would lower speeds, (a little,) Longer shutdown room, less oil downs, less down time, ect. It's the quickest, cheapest, idea out there.
It would lower speeds, (a little,) Longer shutdown room, less oil downs, less down time, ect. It's the quickest, cheapest, idea out there.
.
Nitro Member
How could this possibly work? I mentioned this in a thread a few weeks ago. Here was my post. (copy & paste)
Bobby
Nitro Member
Does anyone here really think they need to race to 1000' at denver to be safe?
How about sonoma?
How about vegas?
I don't.
They need to fix the problem permanently not take a quick fix.
Look what was done in indycars. In 1996 the Arie Luyendyk qualified at 236 mph at the 500. His fastest practice lap was 239. The fastest race lap was eddie cheever at 236. I repeat , 236 in the race!
The next year the cars were completely redesigned. They took away the turbos and made the cars bigger and safter. The cars make 650 hp now instead of 8 or 900. Pole speeds now are 225 and fastest race laps are in the 215 area. Accidents like the one that took Scott Brayton from us in 1996, and took Stan Fox's career in 1995, are a thing of the past. The drivers crash spectacularly now and are enclosed an a tub that protects them. Look at Ryan Briscoe's crash a couple of years ago. 10 years ago I doubt he'd have survived. Today he races again.
Things have improved significantly , by lowering speeds, making the cars safer, and installing soft walls. They addressed the speeds, the cars and the facilities.
That is what NHRA needs to do.
If they need to run 1000' at some tracks until they do, I can understand it , but I don't think it's enough. Scott blew up before the finish line. Tony P blew up before the finish line. They could still blow up at 1000' doing 300 mph and if the speeds, cars, and sand traps / catch fences( the equivalent of the soft walls on ovals) aren't addressed, it's not going to be enough.
The cars are too fast and the facilities can be safer. There are a lot of things that could be done to slow down the cars. It will take a drastic change like taking about the turbos from indycars, but it has to be done.
I've heard a lot of suggestions over the years but I'm not smart enough to talk about them here.
The bodies - they look like spaceships, not cars. Widen the greenhouse.
Take away the bed of the dump truck thing they got going on. Take away a mag. Restrict the fuel flow. Nitro funny cars were fun 30 years ago going much slower and they can be fun today going much slower.
Drag racing is a 1/4 mile. Shorten the track and you reduce the drivers role even further.
Well that's about all I can say about it . Whatever happens happens. That's my .03.
How about sonoma?
How about vegas?
I don't.
They need to fix the problem permanently not take a quick fix.
Look what was done in indycars. In 1996 the Arie Luyendyk qualified at 236 mph at the 500. His fastest practice lap was 239. The fastest race lap was eddie cheever at 236. I repeat , 236 in the race!
The next year the cars were completely redesigned. They took away the turbos and made the cars bigger and safter. The cars make 650 hp now instead of 8 or 900. Pole speeds now are 225 and fastest race laps are in the 215 area. Accidents like the one that took Scott Brayton from us in 1996, and took Stan Fox's career in 1995, are a thing of the past. The drivers crash spectacularly now and are enclosed an a tub that protects them. Look at Ryan Briscoe's crash a couple of years ago. 10 years ago I doubt he'd have survived. Today he races again.
Things have improved significantly , by lowering speeds, making the cars safer, and installing soft walls. They addressed the speeds, the cars and the facilities.
That is what NHRA needs to do.
If they need to run 1000' at some tracks until they do, I can understand it , but I don't think it's enough. Scott blew up before the finish line. Tony P blew up before the finish line. They could still blow up at 1000' doing 300 mph and if the speeds, cars, and sand traps / catch fences( the equivalent of the soft walls on ovals) aren't addressed, it's not going to be enough.
The cars are too fast and the facilities can be safer. There are a lot of things that could be done to slow down the cars. It will take a drastic change like taking about the turbos from indycars, but it has to be done.
I've heard a lot of suggestions over the years but I'm not smart enough to talk about them here.
The bodies - they look like spaceships, not cars. Widen the greenhouse.
Take away the bed of the dump truck thing they got going on. Take away a mag. Restrict the fuel flow. Nitro funny cars were fun 30 years ago going much slower and they can be fun today going much slower.
Drag racing is a 1/4 mile. Shorten the track and you reduce the drivers role even further.
Well that's about all I can say about it . Whatever happens happens. That's my .03.
Terry
Nitro Member
I'm following this discussion with interest here and I am seeing lots of good approaches to more safety. I'm guessing that the right solution may not be one or other of the suggestions but rather a blending of several approaches to reach a common goal.
The idea of shortening the racing distance does not trouble me much--I have done quite a bit of 1/8 racing, and it is a ball, and watching pro mods run 1/8 is still a good show. However, if we went to 1/8 or 1000, do you envision it being only for the fuel cars, or would pro stock run to the 1/8 also, and a step further--how about the sportsman cars? With alcohol and a/f cars running at 260 or so, would they also go to 1/8 and the rest of the sportsman cars run 1/4 or would it be a wholesale change?
Not picking on anyone's ideas here, just kinda wondering what we would do with PS and the sportsman classes. Any thoughts, fellow maters?
The idea of shortening the racing distance does not trouble me much--I have done quite a bit of 1/8 racing, and it is a ball, and watching pro mods run 1/8 is still a good show. However, if we went to 1/8 or 1000, do you envision it being only for the fuel cars, or would pro stock run to the 1/8 also, and a step further--how about the sportsman cars? With alcohol and a/f cars running at 260 or so, would they also go to 1/8 and the rest of the sportsman cars run 1/4 or would it be a wholesale change?
Not picking on anyone's ideas here, just kinda wondering what we would do with PS and the sportsman classes. Any thoughts, fellow maters?
