Idea for slowing them down & back to 1/4 mile (1 Viewer)

[Randy]

Not my idea but a friend who isn't a member of Nitromater.

He suggested one move that would reduce et and speed, allow elimination of the rev limiters which are nothing but engine killers and suggested that such a move would be a no brainer for NHRA tech to police. Simply remove the current multi stage clutches and any clutch management system and require a Crowerglide style 4 or 5 disc centrifugal clutch similar to those found right now in A/Fuel dragsters.

Back when Dale Armstrong put the first computer on KB's Bud car he found out that the clutch was a long way from locking up at the finish line. They put a lock-up clutch on it and, if you remember, it almost sounded like it had a 2 speed whenever it would lock. ET's improved drastically.

This one move would make it significantly cheaper for a newbie to get in the sport and it would not obsolete anything forward of the motorplate or back of the bellhousing.

Let 'er rip.

RG

 

[sparky]

Sounds like a plan that needs to be looked at.

I remember when AA Dale came out with that clutch. The others didn't pick up on it until he had a single in qualifying. After that they all figured that something was up.

Bernstein and him "ruled" back then. I used to love it when someone would knock him off. Simply for the reason to see someone else get a win.

 

[Wes]

I think it is a fine theory...but. Half the job of the clutch management systems is to keep a constant load on a supercharged-nitro engine so it may keep the fires lit. Remove that load and things start to melt or shatter. Not having a management system on an unblown-nitro engine might merely lead to wet, dead holes...add the pressurized induction with the same system and we'll need a lot more oil-down entertainment.

Radical bellhousing thought...why not torque convertors instead of clutches? Lenco and Bruno have continually developed their convertor drive systems to take 3000+ horsepower abuse in Pro Mod cars. A convertor is a "static" component...meaning its operation and function is set once the halves are welded or bolted together. API had/has an electical lock up function on their convertors, but neither the Lencodrive nor Bruno units have the provision for that type of convertor. A convertor would help keep the motor loaded constantly just due to the rotating mass and inertia. And you can't "manage" it during a pass. All you could do to change its function is have a number of tighter or looser units or have a bolt-together style with varying turbine, impeller, and stator angles.

 

[Mike]

Oh, I thought it was going say "put a Randy Goodwin tune-up on it"(LOL)

 

[Randy]

I think it is a fine theory...but. Half the job of the clutch management systems is to keep a constant load on a supercharged-nitro engine so it may keep the fires lit. Remove that load and things start to melt or shatter. Not having a management system on an unblown-nitro engine might merely lead to wet, dead holes...add the pressurized induction with the same system and we'll need a lot more oil-down entertainment.

Radical bellhousing thought...why not torque convertors instead of clutches? Lenco and Bruno have continually developed their convertor drive systems to take 3000+ horsepower abuse in Pro Mod cars. A convertor is a "static" component...meaning its operation and function is set once the halves are welded or bolted together. API had/has an electical lock up function on their convertors, but neither the Lencodrive nor Bruno units have the provision for that type of convertor. A convertor would help keep the motor loaded constantly just due to the rotating mass and inertia. And you can't "manage" it during a pass. All you could do to change its function is have a number of tighter or looser units or have a bolt-together style with varying turbine, impeller, and stator angles.

A centrifugal clutch would do exactly that. It would keep a constant load on it.

Do you really think a torque converter behind Alan Johnson's tune up in Tony's TF car would last more than 10 feet?

 

[Bross Hawg]

Not my idea but a friend who isn't a member of Nitromater.


RG

Who's your friend, Chrisman? He was preaching that at the Seattle race to whoever would listen...

 

[Randy]

Who's your friend, Chrisman? He was preaching that at the Seattle race to whoever would listen...

Nope. The guy who suggested it is my clutch guy, Daniel Oliver. He was Jerry Darien's clutch guy on the A/F Dragster Brittany and Ashley Force have been driving. It has a Crowerglide in it and his experience with that clutch set up is what gave him the idea.

Steve is a friend of mine since you asked.

Steve's a pretty smart guy. Does his "preaching" it make the idea illegitimate?

RG

 

[Randy]

Oh, I thought it was going say "put a Randy Goodwin tune-up on it"(LOL)

I resemble that remark

With my luck lately something like this might happen...YouTube - Blower!

RG

 

[headporter]

400 CI zero cost.................... = Slower

They cycle out cranks rods and pistons anyway. Leave the blocks the same as they use now and wala reduced et. They can't use 8k horse power anyway. It's all wasted sliping the clutch.

Remove down force while your at it as well. So they stop breaking the cars in 2 pieces.

If you want more fun remove computers and see if Owsald and the General can still tune. Oh wait can't do that.. Connie might get to many laughs from trouncing people again like the old days.

 

[DrRocket]

I resemble that remark

With my luck lately something like this might happen...YouTube - Blower!

RG

Good heavens!! Man, I'll bet his ears were ringing for a coupla days, eh???

Man.........

 

[Toejam]

While slowing the cars is part of the equation, the MAIN concern is shutdown standards! You can bet that E-town's shutdown as well as a few others will be vastly different next year!

 

[Wes]

A centrifugal clutch would do exactly that. It would keep a constant load on it.

Do you really think a torque converter behind Alan Johnson's tune up in Tony's TF car would last more than 10 feet?

A centrifugal clutch is what they've got...it's just helped out with the cannon to load the motor harder and apply more power to the driveshaft. Let the engine get ahead of the clutch/driveshaft/tires and that's when you start getting cold cylinders. If there were other means of reducing power at the flywheel (less compression, less boost, less fuel, ect., etc.,) then perhaps a circa 1989 clutch with 3 discs and a single stage lock-up would be the best plan...but not with a modern Alan Johnson or Jimmy Prock tune-up in front of it.

And yes...I really think that the best torque convertor manufactuers could design and build a fluid clutch device that would withstand the output power of a nitro motor. Simple evolution. Remember when every single race car in drag racing had a clutch? Not so today.

NHRA.com's photo of the week was Joe Amato's 1989 Top Fuel car. Amazingly simple car compared to today's technological terrors. Throw some 17" front wheels on that car, today's tires, today's blocks, and a set of billet heads with the same internal design and you would have my idea of to where "they" need to devolve Top Fuel.

 

[Alan]

400 CI zero cost.................... = Slower

They cycle out cranks rods and pistons anyway. Leave the blocks the same as they use now and wala reduced et. They can't use 8k horse power anyway. It's all wasted sliping the clutch.

Remove down force while your at it as well. So they stop breaking the cars in 2 pieces.

If you want more fun remove computers and see if Owsald and the General can still tune. Oh wait can't do that.. Connie might get to many laughs from trouncing people again like the old days.

Now I may be talking out of my a$$, but wouldn't having the block manufacturers start changing the blocks be on the more expensive side?

 

[Randy]

Steve Chrisman ran 4.2 at 274 with the Crowerglide today and kept all the candles lit on the run. I believe that translates into somewhere around 4.90's at 300 miles per hour at the 1/4 mile mark which is close to what I believe NHRA is looking for.

Better funded teams running a Crowerglide would run better than Steve's once the learning curve is eliminated and possibly run 4.80's at 300. His run(s) prove the Crowerglide can be made to work, will load the motor enough to keep the cylinders lit and will still run fast. Just not as fast as a car with clutch management and I think that is the goal.

Like I said, no changes would be needed ahead of the rear motorplate or behind the bellhousing, and it would be very easy for NHRA tech to police.

RG

 

[Wes]

Does anyone have any inside scoop on the engine combination that Chrisman runs in the fueler? Compression, heads, pump, blower, overdrive, etc. I recall at one time they considered their car an A/FD with a decent blower. Just curious how hard they are running in front of the Crowerglide.

 

[TAFC 5 81]

Steve Chrisman ran 4.2 at 274 with the Crowerglide today and kept all the candles lit on the run. I believe that translates into somewhere around 4.90's at 300 miles per hour at the 1/4 mile mark which is close to what I believe NHRA is looking for.

Better funded teams running a Crowerglide would run better than Steve's once the learning curve is eliminated and possibly run 4.80's at 300. His run(s) prove the Crowerglide can be made to work, will load the motor enough to keep the cylinders lit and will still run fast. Just not as fast as a car with clutch management and I think that is the goal.

Like I said, no changes would be needed ahead of the rear motorplate or behind the bellhousing, and it would be very easy for NHRA tech to police.

RG

I agree. As I have mentioned before, the multi stage clutch was prominent in regards to TF and FC performance gains. Look at 1987-8 (the first era most racers had them) and see how 5.40 TF cars became 5.0 TF cars in that time frame.

 

[Mooseman]

I agree. As I have mentioned before, the multi stage clutch was prominent in regards to TF and FC performance gains. Look at 1987-8 (the first era most racers had them) and see how 5.40 TF cars became 5.0 TF cars in that time frame.

I have seen a few videos of races from the 88 season and there were some real performance gains that year , Force was running quite fast , lahaie and amato seemed to be trying to see who could run faster and quicker and amato broke alot of stuff lol but did well . Probably the most amasing performance gain that year and a sign of how things went afterwoods was Eddie hills 4 second run . I was born in 88 so have only seen videos but it looked like a cool season

 

[Gutte]

Take one mag away.

 

[FalconRacer]

Take away a mag.. Take away the giant fuel pumps. Take away downforce. Take away the huge rear slicks. Take away the bubble top bodies and go to Nostalgia style bodies that actually look like the car.. Take away Blowers go back to 16-71's of 14-71's.. Take away the computers and data loggers...

Take away the "Tecnology Center's and go back to Goose neck trailers and dually's and what's in the 1 trailer is all the parts you can bring into the track.

OH YESS sooooo many ways to slow them down.. BUT what will NHRA and the Racers decide to do??

 

[Toejam]

Steve Chrisman ran 4.2 at 274 with the Crowerglide today and kept all the candles lit on the run. I believe that translates into somewhere around 4.90's at 300 miles per hour at the 1/4 mile mark which is close to what I believe NHRA is looking for.

God I hope your wrong, otherwise I say leave it at 1000'!