H and I Dragster (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sammi
- Start date
Wes
Nitro Member
There are only a few cars in existence right now that fit the criteria. Bullish Motorsports has an inline 6 Toyota dragster and there is also a 4 cylinder Ecotec dragster that runs 6.40's at 215+. Why they haven't shown up in NHRA Comp yet is a guess 
.
We tried doing a twin turbo 3.2L Taurus SHO DOHC V-6 but getting the car to weigh 1800 pounds and make the power needed was a steep and expensive endeavor. We were looking at hanging almost 300 pounds on the car to make weight which makes no sense and isn't safe. Even on methanol we were 250-300 hp down from being able to run .60-under. The motors went into a streamliner instead.
The classes were built to entice the Sport Compact guys to run the national and divisional event series. Both classes were tailored specifically to the Ecotec 4 and J-whatever 6. But I guess since there are no bikini and stereo contests at the nationals and divisionals they just aren't interested
. We tried doing a twin turbo 3.2L Taurus SHO DOHC V-6 but getting the car to weigh 1800 pounds and make the power needed was a steep and expensive endeavor. We were looking at hanging almost 300 pounds on the car to make weight which makes no sense and isn't safe. Even on methanol we were 250-300 hp down from being able to run .60-under. The motors went into a streamliner instead.
The classes were built to entice the Sport Compact guys to run the national and divisional event series. Both classes were tailored specifically to the Ecotec 4 and J-whatever 6. But I guess since there are no bikini and stereo contests at the nationals and divisionals they just aren't interested
But I guess since there are no bikini and stereo contests at the nationals and divisionals they just aren't interested
It sucks that those of us that raced in the series are looked at that way. Some of us are actual drag racers and just building new hot rods just like the 60's. When the NHRA turned everything over to NOPI this past year, I know that I make the choice to no longer race or support that series in any way because that is all they are really known for. I have looked into building a dragster for I/D but I don't want to deal with people who think that because I use a 4 cylinder and a turbo that I am not a real drag racer and all I am doing is waiting for the bikini contest to start.
Wes
Nitro Member
That image is a direct result of the series. I will be the first to admit that the "lifestyle" events are far more fun and less benign than the traditional NHRA divisional and national events. However, the bulk of the sport compact event/series sponsors drew directly from the crowd that prefers T'n'A as opposed to solid drag racing action.
NHRA is just as guilty of the night club atmosphere as NOPI and the other defunct players in that game.
I, for one, am astonished by the level of complexity of some of the former sports compact cars. I was hoping that the technology would bleed over into traditional NHRA and IHRA categories. But, sadly, due to the image that the series portrayed with the stero sound offs, bikini contests, raves, and general image over substance attitude, that is the prevailing perception of the former participants no matter how much of a "real" racer they may be.
Build it, Chris! Run the piss out of it!
nedannouncer
Nitro Member
Wes,
The reason that the tech didn't "bleed over" has nothing to do with bikinis or stereos. You can't bleed through the iron curtain.
The reason the tech isn't here is because it is not being ALLOWED.
How many Pontiacs roll of the line with carbs or 500/800+ inch motors?
Brian
The reason that the tech didn't "bleed over" has nothing to do with bikinis or stereos. You can't bleed through the iron curtain.
The reason the tech isn't here is because it is not being ALLOWED.
How many Pontiacs roll of the line with carbs or 500/800+ inch motors?
Brian
Wes
Nitro Member
At the very least I was hoping to see more proliferation of EFI in the sportsman classes and MAYBE Pro Stock. At the most I was hoping to see production engines in Pro Stock with EFI...as were Toyota and Ford.
There have been a few turbo cars show up in Top Dragster and Top Sportsman, which is a good thing. Still, I believe that 99% of the technological advances made in the SC series will never see the light of day in the NHRA or IHRA mainstay programs.
Funny, I was wondering today what happened to the Celica's of the Scranton's and the Titan bunch? Those were some of the best looking door cars ever built. Would make great T/S cars with the little V-8's, turbos, and methanol.
There have been a few turbo cars show up in Top Dragster and Top Sportsman, which is a good thing. Still, I believe that 99% of the technological advances made in the SC series will never see the light of day in the NHRA or IHRA mainstay programs.
Funny, I was wondering today what happened to the Celica's of the Scranton's and the Titan bunch? Those were some of the best looking door cars ever built. Would make great T/S cars with the little V-8's, turbos, and methanol.
Here is the deal with EFI, will it really put more people in the stands? Yea some hardcore younger efi enthusiasts would watch PS if EFI was legal. Yet it won't make a big change at the ticket gate for NHRA to justify the change. Believe me, I am all for it. I work with PS teams handling their data acq systems. It would make my value skyrocket! Yet from NHRA's side I have to realize that it isn't worth it for them to allow/require EFI.
Of course the first thing argued against EFI is the traction control issue. That could be circumvented by only allowing one or two or several manufacturers of the ECMs and NHRA hands out the ECMs at tech to each team. The ECM is sealed and only the fuel maps can be sent to the ECM. At the end of the race the teams return the ECMs to NHRA. The TC dilemma is pretty much solved.
However, look at the NASCAR crowd. There are 100's of thousands of people that show up to watch a Car of Tomorrow...ie all cars are generic regardless of manufacturer and all cars have a single four barrel. Does any one of the 100's of thousands really give a s**t that the cars are generic or all use a single carb? Not really, ticket sales are great. Again, look at NHRA's side of this deal, what value is there for them to allow EFI?
There are a few comp classes, the gas dragster and altered classes that allow EFI. I am in the process of building a C/D that will use EFI. I am somewhat surprised about the lack of participants using carbs in these classes. Only a small amount are using EFI in the non turbo classes where it is legal. I think David From's altered that Clint Neff is driving is the only car in Pomona with EFI. Hell you can't complain about the cost of EFI, a friggen set of 'good' carbs cost just as much!!
Of course the first thing argued against EFI is the traction control issue. That could be circumvented by only allowing one or two or several manufacturers of the ECMs and NHRA hands out the ECMs at tech to each team. The ECM is sealed and only the fuel maps can be sent to the ECM. At the end of the race the teams return the ECMs to NHRA. The TC dilemma is pretty much solved.
However, look at the NASCAR crowd. There are 100's of thousands of people that show up to watch a Car of Tomorrow...ie all cars are generic regardless of manufacturer and all cars have a single four barrel. Does any one of the 100's of thousands really give a s**t that the cars are generic or all use a single carb? Not really, ticket sales are great. Again, look at NHRA's side of this deal, what value is there for them to allow EFI?
There are a few comp classes, the gas dragster and altered classes that allow EFI. I am in the process of building a C/D that will use EFI. I am somewhat surprised about the lack of participants using carbs in these classes. Only a small amount are using EFI in the non turbo classes where it is legal. I think David From's altered that Clint Neff is driving is the only car in Pomona with EFI. Hell you can't complain about the cost of EFI, a friggen set of 'good' carbs cost just as much!!
the problem is, it is a mute point now that the NHRA jumped ship on the sport compact series. NOPI has promised to drop the BS and focus on racing but because of their history, I have no plans on helping them make a better series. The NHRA dumped off the sport compact series so that we wouldn't take any of the HD Partners money, guess it all work out as sweet justice for me.
I may build it, I am pretty much just a chassis and tranmission short of being able to do it. We already have a plate made for a powerglide and the motor we would run for a Civic we may build in the future too.
blackbeard
Nitro Member
well that's because those things went on at your races. we didn't make it up. don't see any bikini models or wet t-shirt contest or rap music stereo contests at the winternationals
i did a quick google image search for "import racing" and look at the first two pages:
import racing - Google Image Search
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but that doesn't mean that those of us that attended wanted it. In fact, I told the NHRA from day one and kept telling them that they shouldn't do it at all. I raced in the sport compact series because I sell sport compact parts. I was racing to sell more parts. I didn't attend races so that when I wasn't in the staging lines, I was watching the bikini contest. Just because something went on at an event, it doesn't mean that everyone there supported it. I didn't race in the NOPI series because it was nothing but T&A with some racing to fill in the down time. The NHRA was the lesser of all evils in the sport compact drag racing scene.
Professor Dave
Nitro Member
Raymond Martin's K/AA, Allyn Armstrong's L/A (now owned by Charlie Greco), Pam Miskovsky's C/DA, Chad Voges' K/A and L/AA all run EFI. Someday we might actually use it again in the altered (we had it on the car when we first brought it out-but a lack of support from the manufacturer made us take it off).
HEMI6point1
Nitro Member
I know it's not sport compact but one engine I would like to see someone try on a dragster is Galpin Auto Sports' supercharged biodiesel Duramax. 800hp and 1400 ft/lbs AND 24mpg.
They aren't all in Pomona now are they? Thats a list of competitors from all over?
What EFI system did you use?
What EFI system did you use?
Ron Middleton
Nitro Member
There are no H or I dragsters as those who tend to run Comp Eliminator are some of the sharpest minds about technology and the way rules really work. CIC comes into play and so does thew very high cost of R & D to start from a clean sheet in racing. The majority of sport compact racers have never raced where rules are such as Comp Elimintaor has and have always had a real free reign on rules and heads up racing. Very few headsup racers will ever compete in Comp due to the complexity of the Eliminator and the lack of headsup racing. I want to run an I or H dragster but with a two valve motor and the rules allow for only 4 valve motors.
Guess I'll stick to Stock and Superstock with 2.3l Turbo Ford Tbird and go from there. Maybe one day the rules will get inline enoguh to get me to consider racing in Comp.
Guess I'll stick to Stock and Superstock with 2.3l Turbo Ford Tbird and go from there. Maybe one day the rules will get inline enoguh to get me to consider racing in Comp.
blackbeard
Nitro Member
well, i, as well as many others i'm sure, spent a lot of my childhood at the racetrack. i know my father wouldn't have taken me to the cajun nats year after year to see bikini contests. i would have missed out on a lot of great memories at the drag strip.
chris, i'm glad to hear your side of the story. it's good that there were people in that series fighting to keep racing about racing.
Professor Dave
Nitro Member
I'd prefer not to mention the manufacturer because who was providing support then and who is now are different and I don't want past mistakes to reflect on current management.
Wes
Nitro Member
Go Top Dragster racing, Ron. Top Dragster and Top Sportsman seem to be the last bations of sportsman racing innovation in the NHRA/IHRA world.
