Transfusion needed for Comp. (1 Viewer)

[sammi]

I looked all over my rulebook, but I couldn't find any rule that states you must run a wildly expensive car to be competitive in comp. Sadly, the reality is very different.

I think the time has come for NHRA to stop introducing potentially hugely expensive classes into comp (h/d, i/d, cc/at-have you looked closely at one of these cars. The car I saw in Pomona had more technology and TIG welding than Apollo 11).

Why can't we have a couple of closely scrutinized crate engine classes. Either dragster or altered or both. Add a an "approved" Powerglide and no electronics. How about making h/d a class for a guy who wants to run a Hayabusa powerplant?

We HAVE to have classes for those who want to burn a zillion bucks up building a technological masterpiece, but we need to fill fields more.

Mark Watkins

 

[stanman]

NHRA should start by making certain that cars in some classes that have dominated lately are running a legal cylinder head!!

 

[Jeff]

Since Comp is a modified heads up class, unless they create a "claiming" class like in dirt track or horse racing isn't it always going to be a pocketbook and technology race? I love watching the class and talking to the guys who build engines for these cars (and tend to dominate the class), but I'll never have the drag racing budget to compete there. Some of the engine combinations are awesome.

Several classes with tiers of claiming values would certainly spice things up a bit, but I'd hate to fundamentally change what we already have.

Let those guys have their class, we'll stick to the one we've chosen.

 

[sammi]

My worry is that Comp is rapidly turning into a rich guys club and that has never been healthy for the sport (look at fuel racing). Creating a rules environment that supports innovation and hold down costs may be as difficult as getting Calif. politicians to agree on a budget.

Mark

 

[DG]

The original concept of the "Econo" dragsters and altered was low cost, low tech racing.

How did that work out?

Due to the CIC rules, Comp is an all out "too much just isn't enough" class for qualifying and a less than 0.600 under your index bracket race.

Run more than sixty under and everyone in your class suffers. Back to the bank, parts counter, and dynos for more HP!

 

[1992Si]

With what's going on in Sport Compact racing. You may see more cars in BB/AF. My son and I are building a SC Hot Rod Civic. 122 cubic inch engine with turbo charger, Rob Moore driveline and Liberty trans.

There are 2 Cobalts and a Scion that will also fit into that class. They have run low 8's this season.

If you'd like to see our car as it was last season with a 1.6L engine there's a 8 page spread in the Oct 08 issue of Turbo magazine. It's had lots of chassis upgrades the past few months.

With the 1.6 he ran 9.85 and went 145mph, the car weighted 2300lbs with driver.

Looking forward to making a few Comp events next season.

 

[Toby]

The money problem is practically in every non break-out class. Unless you want to go with a 'claimer' rule, money will still rule in some respects unfortunately. Money isn't the only thing yet I am sure you understand my point. I don't care what rules are put in place to control the costs. If there is a guy that wants to spend $X amount of money, he will do it. Look at NASCAR as a perfect example. They have worked their asses off trying to contain costs. Now it works out to be $1 mil a race!!!

I think if the indexes were adjusted to put all classes in comp back to even, that would bring out the 'little guy' The CIC deal worked, yet it hasn't kept up with the times. Now Comp has turned into protecting a soft index. Its turned into a version of bracket racing. Its not perfect yet I would like NHRA to take the average et of the fastest pass each participant/car made at each race over the year. Just in qualifying, not eliminations. So you know that pass is not a shut off and skew the averages. Then average each participant/class to get a class average. Compare that to each other class average and adjust the indexes plus/minus so each index would be -0.500 under the class index. Then you would have the guys that got an index beat up competitive again and the guy that has the soft index not working the throttle at the 1000' mark on sunday. It would be balls out racing again!!!!

 

[Mooseman]

There is allways someone with more disposable income , the innerview with Don Prudhomme on Drag racing online ses some real interesting stuff about the costs issue which in one way or another applies to pretty much every class in drag racing .

::: Drag Racing Online ::: InnerVIEW - Don Prudhomme - 8/8/2008

 

[Super Mod]

With what's going on in Sport Compact racing. You may see more cars in BB/AF. My son and I are building a SC Hot Rod Civic. 122 cubic inch engine with turbo charger, Rob Moore driveline and Liberty trans.

There are 2 Cobalts and a Scion that will also fit into that class. They have run low 8's this season.

If you'd like to see our car as it was last season with a 1.6L engine there's a 8 page spread in the Oct 08 issue of Turbo magazine. It's had lots of chassis upgrades the past few months.

With the 1.6 he ran 9.85 and went 145mph, the car weighted 2300lbs with driver.

Looking forward to making a few Comp events next season.

The comp stalwarts really don't want the NOPI bunch running with them, but they would like to see higher car counts. So I guess they will have to except these types of cars.....like them or not.

 

[DG]

I've seen some of the Sports Compact guys cross over in the past with initial success. However, they very often don't comprehend what a big CIC hit does to their entire class.

Running seventy under on a single or bye run spells disaster for that class.

You go from Hero to Zero at the finish line!

 

[Wes]

NHRA had a new-era econo dragster class set up for Comp back in 1999. It was going to use a Stock eliminator-style engine that allowed the exact same modifications coupled to a 2-speed automatic transmission. Once the money racers got ahold of the NHRA wigs the class was shot down...seems they didn't want to get beat by a car that cost 1/4 what they had invested in just a motor! We were going to build a couple of them (FED's with small block Ford motors) until they circular-filed the concept.

IHRA's version of Comp-Modified-did quite well without using indexes as the performance bar. All a Modified racer had to do was qualify for the 32 car field then race on the dial-in system. It allowed racers to choose the kind of combination they would have the most fun with and race on a level playing field. Typically if you could run .200 under you were in the show. The growth of Top Dragster and Top Sportsman slowly eroded Modified until its demise in 2002.

Top Dragster and Top Sportsman need to replace Comp across the board.

 

[Super Mod]

I'm sad to say Comp is probably a category without a future. Costs FAR outweigh the rewards. I would say greater than any other sportsman category. High tech/high dollar machines with disgracefully low payouts

 

[none]

For me Comp died when it became JUNIOR PRO STOCK just another door slammer class....zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[DE3]

Just some rebuttals for the naysayers.

First off, there are WAY too many classes already. Whenever a new one is added, the same racers are moving into them, very rarely new ones.

NHRA had a new-era econo dragster class set up for Comp back in 1999. It was going to use a Stock eliminator-style engine that allowed the exact same modifications coupled to a 2-speed automatic transmission. Once the money racers got ahold of the NHRA wigs the class was shot down

It wasn't just the money racers shooting this down. It was the majority, the reason being that was not fair to create these classes out of the blue with most likely cupcake indexes and no initial expense, while everyone else has spent half a lifetime becoming competitive.

IHRA's version of Comp-Modified-did quite well without using indexes as the performance bar. All a Modified racer had to do was qualify for the 32 car field then race on the dial-in system. It allowed racers to choose the kind of combination they would have the most fun with and race on a level playing field. Typically if you could run .200 under you were in the show. The growth of Top Dragster and Top Sportsman slowly eroded Modified until its demise in 2002.

IHRA's version was nothing more than a bracket race, that is why TS and TD took over. NHRA already has a class like this, it's called Stock and Super Stock, qualify against an index and then put a number on the window. And if you think that type of racing is alot less expensive, take a look at some of the newer SS cars.

Top Dragster and Top Sportsman need to replace Comp across the board.

No, they need to replace SC and SG with these. The are nothing more than those cars with the throttle stop off.

I'm sad to say Comp is probably a category without a future. Costs FAR outweigh the rewards.

If thats the standard we are going to live by, then NONE of the classes, Pro or Sportsman, have a future based on cost/return.

Problem is, many people think they are entitled to get in and be ultra competitive at the outset. Does it take some $, sure what doesn't? But you don't have to be a millionaire, myself and many other Comp racers included. Just do your homework and some hard work on your stuff. There is a reason it's not a bracket race. If that's what you are looking for, Comp is not for you.

 

[1992Si]

The comp stalwarts really don't want the NOPI bunch running with them, but they would like to see higher car counts. So I guess they will have to except these types of cars.....like them or not.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful,

Please remember the basic fact of life. The young will inherit the earth. I'm 53 y/o my son is 21 y/o. A lot of us in/from the "NOPI style" are working hard to stop that style show. Drag Racing is about the cars and racers not "life style" events. There are a lot of talented young men out there that are running some quick times using some OEM parts. May be kind of like back in the early days.

Were not trying to change the way NHRA does things. We just want a safe place to run our cars and may be become part of the show.

 

[Super Mod]

But you don't have to be a millionaire, myself and many other Comp racers included.

Yeah Don, you know some of your friends and/or competitors are......and it sure doesn't hurt

 

[Super Mod]

For me Comp died when it became JUNIOR PRO STOCK just another door slammer class....zzzzzzzzzzz

Ridiculous

 

[stanman]

Does noboby want discuss the fact that NHRA is helping to kill Comp by not enforcing the rules. There are classes/cars right now that are dominating while running illegal cylinder heads. The political nature of NHRA's approval process is absurd. When they will approve a cylinder head that isn't even remotely legal... the category is doomed.

NHRA's inconsistency, or selective, rules enforcement is as much to blame for the severe escalation in cost as anything else.

When one class/classes is/are allowed to run a combination that would otherwise not be dominating it drives the cost up for the other classes in an effort remain competitve.

 

[Draw 3D]

Does noboby want discuss the fact that NHRA is helping to kill Comp by not enforcing the rules. There are classes/cars right now that are dominating while running illegal cylinder heads. The political nature of NHRA's approval process is absurd. When they will approve a cylinder head that isn't even remotely legal... the category is doomed.

NHRA's inconsistency, or selective, rules enforcement is as much to blame for the severe escalation in cost as anything else.

When one class/classes is/are allowed to run a combination that would otherwise not be dominating it drives the cost up for the other classes in an effort remain competitve.

If you want to discuss it, then be specific. Drive-by insinuations are just that and don't deserve to be discussed.

Comp has been for the last 40+ years a category where you out-spend or out-engineer your competition. On rare occasions, someone comes along with both and dominates.

 

[BlueStangGT]

Does noboby want discuss the fact that NHRA is helping to kill Comp by not enforcing the rules. There are classes/cars right now that are dominating while running illegal cylinder heads. The political nature of NHRA's approval process is absurd. When they will approve a cylinder head that isn't even remotely legal... the category is doomed.

NHRA's inconsistency, or selective, rules enforcement is as much to blame for the severe escalation in cost as anything else.

When one class/classes is/are allowed to run a combination that would otherwise not be dominating it drives the cost up for the other classes in an effort remain competitve.

Who, specifically, is running illegal heads and how are they illegal?