Transfusion needed for Comp. (2 Viewers)

[Cliff Ricci]

Stanman........

Well my old friend....I almost personally take offense to the statement of illegal heads being predominate in Comp......

Since the Vegas Fall race the tech dept has pulled almost 60 heads, while confirming bore and stroke as well as spark plug location valve angle bore centers etc.

While records and qualifying are unaffected by the CIC, eliminations as we all know is.....

Don't you think someone who displays a 75 under pass lights the HMMMM
maybe its time to look under his heads situation.

At least one and as many as 4 heads are pulled at each Nat'l event, time allowing. At the ALLSTARS race EVERYONE pulled the heads.... and when Franky Aragona changed motors they had to pull that head too....

While most hate the CIC, it is an instant policeman.


I have been teching Comp for over 20 years now and have seen the technology advance 10 fold......They don't call it Complicated Eliminator for nothing. It is not for the weak of heart or pocketbook..it is not an entry level class


If the SC guys kill some index they will soon figure out when and when not to do that.....


Not trying to attack you Stanman ....Ya know we're pals from wayback

But your a little off base in my opinion

Cliff Ricci

 

[stanman]

Because I don't have a personal dog in the hunt I will not name the names of those running heads that should not be allowed.

I should clarify that there are certain heads being run that were approved by NHRA that should have never been allowed. They do not meet the criteria as stated in the rules for the class/classes they are being run in but NHRA approved them anyway... while at the same time denying approval of other heads.

If you think I'm off-base or don't know what the hell I'm talking about just wait and see. Especially you Cliff... don't surprised if some of the feces doesn't hit the fan at Vegas II.

 

[stanman]

Who, specifically, is running illegal heads and how are they illegal?

As noted above, I will not mention names that have been told to me. They will come out soon enough if NHRA takes action on the complaints that will soon surface.

The heads are not illegal at this time because NHRA approved them. But the heads should have never been approved. They are supposed to be a readily available head from an OEM manufacturer with OEM casting numbers and other specifications. The heads NHRA approved do not have the casting numbers in the OEM location and have other modifications that are not consistent with the OEM casting.

 

[Cliff Ricci]

Stanman

We are already planning our Vegas 2 teardown list........I personally haven't heard the complaints.....But I don't don't have my ear to the ground 24/7........As with all spec type classes the chatter spreads quickly, and sooner or later gets to the tech guys......You would be surprised how many racers find themselves in the tech trailer when no one is looking.....They say their piece and vanish as quickly as they appeared.We listen to everyone.

This is supposed to be a gentlemans sport.Where honesty and integrity matter........When someone doesn't display those virtue's we try to weed them out.......We are not perfect and can't be everything to everyone's likeing....But we really do try

If infact those people you know of have not been party to teardown this year......maybe they will before the season is over.......If Vegas 2 will be a feces feast ..thats great I love teardown!

Sometimes with pit chatter the facts are never clear.........But if someone with nads steps up and puts up the protest money ...then all is put to bed.....

Stanman for all the years you and I have had playful banter on these board,you know i respect your accumen and knowledge.....And I know you respect mine.We are both alittle rough around the edges............but want what's right.

And on a different note............How's married life? You coming to the Thanxgiving race????


Cliff

 

[DG]

[Greg Stanley;163366: I should clarify that there are certain heads being run that were approved by NHRA that should have never been allowed. They do not meet the criteria as stated in the rules for the class/classes they are being run in but NHRA approved them anyway... while at the same time denying approval of other heads.]

This is nothing new! In the dim and distant past, the rule book said that a D/ED had to have inline valves and the Buick V6 was a dominate engine. Over night NHRA allowed the Chevy "Porcupine" head, that flowed at least 50cfm per port more than the best Buick head, to run in D/ED at the same weight/CI and index!

Needless to say a bunch of Buick cars were now uncompetitive!

[Anyone want to buy some real old Buick V6 Stuff? ]

 

[DE3]

The main problem is that the NHRA does not stand firm on the rules they make in certain instances. Instead of nipping it in the bud when the first questionable item(s) appear, it is buried in red tape until there are 50 of the item(s) out there. Then a major lobby movement takes place to legalize the parts once the NHRA decides to investigate. By then its too late and the rulebook gets "ammended" to accomodate what should have and could have been plainly deemed a no-go. And there at least 2 instances that I can think of off of the top of my head that had a HUGE impact on the class(es) as a whole.

 

[Nick Name]

I never understood comp. Probably because I didn't want to. To me it was bracket racing where you can't break out.

If you are going to spend that much money on a race car, why not do it on something you can book into tracks as a match racer when not at a national event.

 

[n/a]

The main problem is that the NHRA does not stand firm on the rules they make in certain instances. Instead of nipping it in the bud when the first questionable item(s) appear.

Don I couldn't agree more!!

This same conversation of Non-Rule Enforcement goes on everyday in NHRA Stock & Super Stock circles also.

Here's an example (and there's lots more out there)... There are LEGAL Stockers out there running with removable 2 piece dashes and removable transmission tunnels. I don't remember the factories ever offering these "options"... Its Bogus BS!!

There was a time in Stock Eliminator... IF you didn't have the right tail light lens / bezel in the car, you had to go home. Not anymore!

The problem is NHRA's doesn't want to enforce the class rules, (it takes too long), and they don't want a confrontation with anybody... So the flip side of adhering to the rules is that anything and everything is now legal.

And the Co$ts continue to rise!

Larry

 

[JFrechJr]

Wow with everyones complaints of the rules being so relaxed...


Might as well throw a nitrous bottle and "stuff" in the fuel... NHRA obviously wont care lol

 

[Cliff Ricci]

Jay

No offense......You still don't understand Comp.............


Cliff

 

[Super Mod]

Don I couldn't agree more!!



Here's an example (and there's lots more out there)... There are LEGAL Stockers out there running with removable 2 piece dashes and removable transmission tunnels. I don't remember the factories ever offering these "options"... Its Bogus BS!!



And the Co$ts continue to rise!

Larry

Ever look at a SS/AH car?

 

[n/a]

Yep!
More tubing, braces and gussets than one could ever imagine.

I know it's not 1968, but these too have gotten out of hand.


Larry

 

[1992Si]

If the SC guys kill some index they will soon figure out when and when not to do that.....

Cliff Ricci

One thing some of us have learned is, how to learn from the mistakes of others.

But thanks for sharing that bit of info. If you have kept track of the times run by this years top SC Hot Rod cars now that Eggum Racing has left the show. You get the feeling there learning how to play...

I think we all can agree racing has gotten expensive, but I also see it as a great education and focus for my son.

 

[Wes]

Comp is suffering the same problem that too many once exciting classes are today...too many rules, classifications, combinations, accepted parts, and the scourge of unlimited budgets to exploit the weak areas. Throw in the general increase in operation and you'll continue to see diminished participation. NMRA/NMCA have dropped classes recently because of this very disease. Outlaw 10.5 racing is starting to loose it's sheen for the same reasons. Classes that require intensive tech and verificiation cost the sanctioning body more to present and in the end economics will win over tradition.

My family and I have tasted Comp in a few different flavors. My dad had a killer combination in 1972 that was reclassified into obsolesence in 1973 when NHRA re-organized the whole deal. Seems you can't have a Ford motor in a dragster outrunning the same size/type Chevy by .300 and 20 mph. I helped field a D/ED in the early-mid 90's that won some races then some idiot in another part of the country decided to kill the index one weekend at a divisional race. We threw in the towel rather than build a completely brand new car for the little V-6. Then again in 1997 we had an A/ED that could qualify and if I was lucky enough win some rounds...but some knuckle head bombed the index after taking a nap on the starting line and it was all over. You spend spend spend and build a car that will qualify and be semi-competitive then by no fault of your own you are either forced to spend MORE to keep up or find another class or, as we did, said screw it all and find a sensible class.

Comp has devolved into nothing more than a .60 under bracket race so what the hell would be the difference if it were replaced by a much more profiable class like T/D and T/S? And if some of those Comp teams took their magical budgets and applied them to those classes imagine the quality of operation they could have.

Oh yeah....don't try to tell the Stock and Super Stock racers that they are bracket racing. It might offend them.

 

[sammi]

Obviously the Butners and other big $$$ comp club member would be pissed after being taken out by a new-age crate motor car, but they might be more pissed when NHRA writes them out of national event racing entirely due to low car counts. It is in their best interest, financially and competitively, to have large numbers of cars show up national events. What are you going to go with a Junior Pro Stocker when there is no place to run it? I guess you can park it next to your PST(and maybe soon your TAFC) in the shop.

As for the index, maybe when you bomb the index, maybe one could lose competition privileges at the next divisional or national event or maybe a weight gain for your car and the index stays the same.

Mark

 

[Reese]

Oh yeah....don't try to tell the Stock and Super Stock racers that they are bracket racing. It might offend them.

Performance based bracket race.

You are right about comp. There have been some index bashing this year already. It seems everyone is not smart like David Rampy. Also there are a couple of cars in stock/superstock that have been hitting the trigger just to be #1 qualifier and that don't pay anything(except giving everyone with that combination weight).

 

[Comp6992]

A ton of choices in Comp. Some are less expensive than others. Comp is for the hard core performance person that likes mechanical challenges.

Also, sitting in a car running a push rod V-8 that goes through the traps at over 10,500 rpm will mess you up for life.

I can only think of one other thing that is as addicting as Comp.

I should have stayed away from that too.........


A/EA 6992

 

[DE3]

A ton of choices in Comp. Some are less expensive than others. Comp is for the hard core performance person that likes mechanical challenges.

Bingo. If you don't want to work on your stuff, even after a hit, then change classes. Simple stuff. Will It ever get to the point where I may not be able to afford it? Probably, but I will never regret the enjoyment and challenges from it.

What are you going to go with a Junior Pro Stocker when there is no place to run it? I guess you can park it next to your PST(and maybe soon your TAFC) in the shop.

Uh, what? While there may be some cars out there that resemble "Jr Pro Stock", you obviously have never truly taken a look at the variety of cars in Comp. PST was nixed because they were run as a pro class and the NHRA was banking on them bringing some sponsors in. And I have NO idea where the TAFC comment came from.

 

[DG]

[Don Eckel:"Bingo. If you don't want to work on your stuff, even after a hit, then change classes. Simple stuff. "]

If you have one of the "alphabet" door cars, that's relatively easy, though still expensive. Most dragsters are built specifically for an engine/weight-break combination [F/ED to A/D? I don't think so...]

For most competitors throwing most everything away and starting over is just not an option.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong!

 

[Terry Stears]

I had ordered a Econo Dragster from curt damron if I remember right he told me he had orders for 15 cars. He called me back and told me that NHRA had dumped the class. He wasn't happy and I wasn't either. Thats when I decided that was it for the NHRA for me.