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Rat

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Competition Plus wrote this wonderful article, yet he can beat a dead horse all he wants. I have my own history with an unpublished interview we did with this swan song. Meanwhile he out ran all of them expect for Andrew in Q1 and Q2. Yesterday, he ran OVER a tenth better and ran a 7.13. He has been bitching about this day one, at least he is consistent. I personally feel 6-8 NHRA did let VH run away with it, but the last 3-4 years..NOPE.

Matt Smith angry
 
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This issue has been going on for years. George Bryce (Star Racing) was trying to buy Harley engines etc back in the V-Rod days and kept getting stonewalled. With George no longer competing Matt has taken up the fight.
 
This is just my opinion but as I said in another thread about Rickie Smith you should choose your battles wisely. You can't constantly complain and expect people to listen. Like father like son I guess. Do I watching from the outside think Harley Davidson has had an unfair advantage? Yes mainly because they have something no one else is allowed to have but who doesn't think that with the same budget and talent they wouldn't be just as successful with a Suzuki? Maybe not but I think they would be right at the top anyway.
 
this is a very sore, beat to death subject IMO. Also IMO whether or not it is an advantage, it is unethical to allow one team to use one set of parts which are unavailable to other teams.
Just like is happening in PS right now with so many teams sharing/leasing engines they winners have expanded.
 
ironpony said:
this is a very sore, beat to death subject IMO. Also IMO whether or not it is an advantage, it is unethical to allow one team to use one set of parts which are unavailable to other teams.
Just like is happening in PS right now with so many teams sharing/leasing engines they winners have expanded.
Click to expand...

It's as simple as that. Whether or not they're winning races, you'll never know how much they're potentially holding. From the standpoint of the integrity of the sport, this is the worst thing going in drag racing and has been since day one, IMO regardless of the parity the class seems to have.

Sean D
 
I agree 100% it is ridiculous that it is not, "you can have it too if your wallet matches." I do think 2012-2014 was NHRA's biggest VH advantage era. With all that being said, I do believe parity is in the class and it is better than it has ever been. VH used to dominate Denver practically blindfolded, look at the last 2 seasons...the advantage is just not there. There is a very thin line between parity and better tuning.
 
Rat said:
I agree 100% it is ridiculous that it is not, "you can have it too if your wallet matches." I do think 2012-2014 was NHRA's biggest VH advantage era. With all that being said, I do believe parity is in the class and it is better than it has ever been. VH used to dominate Denver practically blindfolded, look at the last 2 seasons...the advantage is just not there. There is a very thin line between parity and better tuning.
Click to expand...

But how will you ever know if the parity is pure? Sure, it looks like there's parity, but with the situation being what it is, we'll NEVER know whether or not there's any sandbagging going on. I wouldn't rule out the HD team tanking their share of races in an effort to somewhat keep the spotlight off the elephant in the room. At first I thought that I was out of my mind, but with all the attention this particular topic used to get, I wouldn't completely rule it out. What I do know is that they're in the best possible position to do just that, simply because the performance of those bikes cannot be quantified through any of their competitors, so nobody at Vance & Hines is in a position to prove it either way.

Tanking races and a championship here and there to keep the peace? May sound far-fetched, but the topic of their exclusivity has been dormant for a bit until Matt rehashed it again this weekend.

Sean D
 
I am not talking about who won the wally on Sundays, I am looking at parity. How much is parity issue vs. better tuning. Look at every race and the qualifying sheets vs. what others have ran. They are not sandbagging when they finish with relative MPH. Matt Smith ran a 18 first round, I think second best for a few thou slower. Why couldn't MS repeat those numbers all day? Only AH was able to keep it low the rest of the day? Savoie ran a 20 round two, MS was not even in the top 3. This has to come down to just being a better tuner. The relative et's and mph by all seem pretty balance. You cant say the same in PM, that's out of balance right now. Plus, reports are the VH may be for sale next year and the program being non exclusive
 
MM said:
Andrew has won 6 of the 8 races this year. That's a really bad job of tanking.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with that, but I'm just saying the thought has crossed my mind in the time since George was really vocal about it and this recent dust-up with Matt. There's been a fair amount of time between the intensity of those two particular occurrences, along with a pretty fair amount of parity (or perceived parity) during the time in between. Now that there's some scuttlebutt about the Harley's no longer having that privilege after 2020, maybe the gloves are off now.

Bottom line, there's no getting away from the fact that it's an unfair advantage that is simply there because of the money. An unfair advantage they've enjoyed for a LONG time.

Sean D
 
IMO HD sells bikes to nhra fans via their midway displays. i highly doubt sales are tied to VH wins. never really understood their exclusivity in the class.
then again, i've never really paid that much attention to the class anyways.
 
Personally, I don't think they tanked any races, But I do think they are good at sandbagging when they need to.
 
mick said:
IMO HD sells bikes to nhra fans via their midway displays. i highly doubt sales are tied to VH wins. never really understood their exclusivity in the class.
then again, i've never really paid that much attention to the class anyways.
Click to expand...


Back when HD came back to the class was when all the wanna bees were mortgaging their homes and buying HD's to be Billy Biker. It was part of their marketing campaign to draw some of the wanna bees to the drag track. I remember the first few years of all the HD t shirt crowd gathered around them in the pit area.
I guess they still do, I lost interest in the HD's when I came to accept that they were definitely at an advantage. I want to see fair racing not he who donates the most money makes the rules wins.
Sour grapes ? maybe. However if you look at the facts sure looks like they are getting preferential treatment.
 
Mile High PSM. Details of eliminations. Winners in blue, quickest/fastest incrementals for each round in red.
MileHighEliminations.png
 
It's always interesting reading the numbers. E3 Matt Smith vs Hines. Smith had the better numbers until 330' and after that, all Hines. Altho it was closer than it looks cuz of Smith's R/T. Drag racing is the only motorsport where you can win by .0001.
 
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