TooTall999
Nitro Member
This is a good question, if you know you're going into states that have a 53' limit, why build a 56' trailer? Do you really need that extra 3'?
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Trailer gate....Goodbye NHRA in Ca
- Thread starter Jrod
- Start date
This is a good question, if you know you're going into states that have a 53' limit, why build a 56' trailer? Do you really need that extra 3'?
clwill
Nitro Member
Because the states are inconsistent in their laws, and more importantly in their enforcement. Dozens of rigs sitting in Pomona right now are overlength and/or overweight, but only Torrence got escorted out of the state.
I know there are a whole lot of "states rights" folks in this world, but this sure seems to me to be a place where one set of federal laws could really help.
As a sportman racer (well as Nancy would prefer I point out ... as the husband/crew chief of a high MPH sportsman racer ... I agree with Nancy, it's her decision), I'm afraid I will never race in California. I go to LasVegas all the time, but I refuse to sit across the border and wait until the scales close at 2am to sneak in California like many of my buddies do. My rig is right at 90 ft and just now being converted to a king pin set up behind the Renegade.
See the below, Steve was probably 100% legal until he crossed the border, like many of us he probably carries a WASHTO permit (clipped from the Texas permit website):
Multi-State (WASHTO) Single-Trip Permits
Order a Permit Now!
Multi-State Single-Trip Permits are issued under the Western Regional Permitting Agreement ("WASHTO"). The State of Texas, through TxDOT, participates in the "Western Regional Agreement for the Issuance of Permits for Oversize and Overweight Vehicles Involved in Interstate Travel." Under the terms of the agreement, each member state may issue regional permits allowing operations in any other member state. The following states are currently members of the Western Regional Agreement: Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Oklahoma, Louisiana, Nevada.
So do you notice which state is missing? Those guys just can't make anything easy! It's too bad Torrence got hung up, but I really don't think too much has changed ... and I'll have to say almost every track I go to has either 80ft long or 100 ft long pit spots ... how long do you think those rigs are?
It Texas it costs $1000 a year to run legal all year(4 90 day permits). I keep my account current keep my bond purchased, run a class A exempt license ... but I'll have to admit that I don't buy 4 permits a year!
See the below, Steve was probably 100% legal until he crossed the border, like many of us he probably carries a WASHTO permit (clipped from the Texas permit website):
Multi-State (WASHTO) Single-Trip Permits
Order a Permit Now!
Multi-State Single-Trip Permits are issued under the Western Regional Permitting Agreement ("WASHTO"). The State of Texas, through TxDOT, participates in the "Western Regional Agreement for the Issuance of Permits for Oversize and Overweight Vehicles Involved in Interstate Travel." Under the terms of the agreement, each member state may issue regional permits allowing operations in any other member state. The following states are currently members of the Western Regional Agreement: Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Oklahoma, Louisiana, Nevada.
So do you notice which state is missing? Those guys just can't make anything easy! It's too bad Torrence got hung up, but I really don't think too much has changed ... and I'll have to say almost every track I go to has either 80ft long or 100 ft long pit spots ... how long do you think those rigs are?
It Texas it costs $1000 a year to run legal all year(4 90 day permits). I keep my account current keep my bond purchased, run a class A exempt license ... but I'll have to admit that I don't buy 4 permits a year!
clwill
Nitro Member
I just built a new trailer this year, and thought about all this a lot. I spent much of last winter reading as much as I could on all the various laws, all the various enforcement traps and so on. We also cross the border to race in Canada several times a year, so that complicates things.
Got to admit this scares me, with the random stops, the tape measure cowboys, and so on. Read more than a few stories about this that made my blood boil.
So my solution was to go to the limit I thought I could get away with. I built a 32' box trailer, with a 5' tongue, and tow it with a 22' crew-cab dually truck. It's 59.5' long, just under the apparently magic 60' limit that some states out here want to enforce. It's all registered personally (not commercial) and it's all white, no logos or markings of any kind that would make you think it's a commercial rig. I drive past weigh stations, since they disdain pickup trucks, and stay within shouting distance of the speed limit.
So far, so good. But what a mess this all is. With virtually every other law, it's pretty clear: do this and be legal, do this and you're not. With this stuff, even if you DO try to read and follow it all, it's as clear as mud. And all apparently at the whim of the guy who decides to pull you over.
Got to admit this scares me, with the random stops, the tape measure cowboys, and so on. Read more than a few stories about this that made my blood boil.
So my solution was to go to the limit I thought I could get away with. I built a 32' box trailer, with a 5' tongue, and tow it with a 22' crew-cab dually truck. It's 59.5' long, just under the apparently magic 60' limit that some states out here want to enforce. It's all registered personally (not commercial) and it's all white, no logos or markings of any kind that would make you think it's a commercial rig. I drive past weigh stations, since they disdain pickup trucks, and stay within shouting distance of the speed limit.
So far, so good. But what a mess this all is. With virtually every other law, it's pretty clear: do this and be legal, do this and you're not. With this stuff, even if you DO try to read and follow it all, it's as clear as mud. And all apparently at the whim of the guy who decides to pull you over.
Marchboom
Nitro Member
So, now the big question:
What hassles are the racers currently at Pomona in for when they attempt to get home after the Finals?
And what happens when these same racers attempt to enter Calif in 3 months for the 2012 Winternationals?
Highly unlikely the affected race teams will get new, shorter trailers.
Leave it to Calif to make life miserable.
What hassles are the racers currently at Pomona in for when they attempt to get home after the Finals?
And what happens when these same racers attempt to enter Calif in 3 months for the 2012 Winternationals?
Highly unlikely the affected race teams will get new, shorter trailers.
Leave it to Calif to make life miserable.
nwspeedshots
Nitro Member
Seems I recall this being an issue every few years-or-so (not real sure why it isn’t an issue every year…). I’m pretty sure I remember the NHRA, in the past, interceding and obtaining some sort of exemption from Caltrans on behalf of the race-teams. Which certainly makes sense, considering the amount of revenue that is generated by the event for the community…
--M--
--M--
For those who didn't see it, here's the contents of a link I posted earlier.
Drag Racing California laws
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Light <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu Oct 27 19:23:08 2011
Subject: California 56' trailer law
As most of you are aware, California Highway Patrol (CHP) has indicated they will actively be enforcing the maximum 53’ trailer law. The problem first surfaced when Bob Tasca’s transporter was cited in route from Sonoma to Seattle. At that time it was believed that an over-length permit could be obtained through Caltrans (California Department of Transportation). On September 28, Bob informed us of the following – “Our permit was rejected in writing and I was told that under no circumstance will they allow a 56 foot trailer into CA. They also made it clear to me that there is no permit available. The head of the DOT was very nice to me but made it clear that the Motorsports law would have to be amended. Since the NASCAR community uses 53 foot trailers they are unaffected. He told me that a trailer caught will be impounded at the scales and have to be loaded on a low boy trailer and truck out of the state.”
Since that time, V Gaines has been working with the National Truckers Association in a lobbying effort to seek a Federal exemption for motorsports. V has made some positive headway, however obtaining a Federal exemption can be a lengthy process, one that certainly will NOT be obtained prior to Pomona (or for that matter, probably not the 2012 Winternationals). Also, there are NO guarantees that obtaining an exemption is even possible.
NHRA has been in communication with the head of the Commercial Division for the CHP and Caltrans, plus has recruited assistance from Joe Sheehy Legislative Director for Congresswoman Grace Napoliano and the Southern California Auto Club (AAA). Congresswoman Napolitano is extremely supportive and has discussed with the Commissioner and Assistant Commissioner of the CHP. The Auto Club’s Tom McKernan, their transportation staff and their Sacramento lobbyist have been very helpful in communication with California legislators, the CHP and Caltrans. We have also solicited assistance from Infineon Raceway and Auto Club Speedway at Fontana in contacting the CHP, Caltrans and State Legislators expressing the importance of the issue as well as how these races benefit the local and state economy. Additionally, the Fairplex at Pomona has also been actively pursuing a resolution to this matter.
In a conference call Tuesday with the head of the CHP Commercial Division, three of his officers and myself, I was alarmed to learn how knowledgeable they are about our activities:
1. They are aware that the NHRA teams are currently in Las Vegas this weekend.
2. They are aware these teams will be travelling to Pomona for the event two weeks later.
3. They identified certain teams that use legal 53’ trailers, and also named others that have 56’ trailers.
4. They are aware that most teams are based in Indianapolis.
5. On Monday, they were on a conference call with the Indiana State Police regarding enforcement of over-length trailers in Indiana. ,
Our efforts to this point have been an attempt to arrive at a short term solution for the Auto Club NHRA Finals. Unfortunately, despite everyone’s efforts, a resolution to the matter has not yet been reached.
• Caltrans is the agency that creates and issues permits. They have made it very clear that permits do NOT exist for this purpose and, at this point, are unwilling to consider creating a permit.
• The CHP’s position is that it is their responsibility to “enforce the law” and the teams responsibility to “comply with the law”. Their opinion is that the law was revised in the late 90’s to accommodate motorsport transporters and there is little willingness on their part to further amend a long standing law (the same law that exists in most other states). They also expressed they are “not supportive of exempting longer trailers”. We do not have a sense as to how aggressively they plan on enforcing this law.
While there is no immediate resolution, the CHP suggested transporting race cars and support equipment in rented legal length trailers - then contract with a transport service to haul the 56’ trailer on a lowboy (permits do exist for this purpose). Another suggestion was to investigate the possibility of shipping the trailers and contents by rail from Las Vegas to Pomona area.
Anything your team could do to use your influence and/or connections to assist in this matter could be beneficial.
Thanks,
Graham
Drag Racing California laws
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Light <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu Oct 27 19:23:08 2011
Subject: California 56' trailer law
As most of you are aware, California Highway Patrol (CHP) has indicated they will actively be enforcing the maximum 53’ trailer law. The problem first surfaced when Bob Tasca’s transporter was cited in route from Sonoma to Seattle. At that time it was believed that an over-length permit could be obtained through Caltrans (California Department of Transportation). On September 28, Bob informed us of the following – “Our permit was rejected in writing and I was told that under no circumstance will they allow a 56 foot trailer into CA. They also made it clear to me that there is no permit available. The head of the DOT was very nice to me but made it clear that the Motorsports law would have to be amended. Since the NASCAR community uses 53 foot trailers they are unaffected. He told me that a trailer caught will be impounded at the scales and have to be loaded on a low boy trailer and truck out of the state.”
Since that time, V Gaines has been working with the National Truckers Association in a lobbying effort to seek a Federal exemption for motorsports. V has made some positive headway, however obtaining a Federal exemption can be a lengthy process, one that certainly will NOT be obtained prior to Pomona (or for that matter, probably not the 2012 Winternationals). Also, there are NO guarantees that obtaining an exemption is even possible.
NHRA has been in communication with the head of the Commercial Division for the CHP and Caltrans, plus has recruited assistance from Joe Sheehy Legislative Director for Congresswoman Grace Napoliano and the Southern California Auto Club (AAA). Congresswoman Napolitano is extremely supportive and has discussed with the Commissioner and Assistant Commissioner of the CHP. The Auto Club’s Tom McKernan, their transportation staff and their Sacramento lobbyist have been very helpful in communication with California legislators, the CHP and Caltrans. We have also solicited assistance from Infineon Raceway and Auto Club Speedway at Fontana in contacting the CHP, Caltrans and State Legislators expressing the importance of the issue as well as how these races benefit the local and state economy. Additionally, the Fairplex at Pomona has also been actively pursuing a resolution to this matter.
In a conference call Tuesday with the head of the CHP Commercial Division, three of his officers and myself, I was alarmed to learn how knowledgeable they are about our activities:
1. They are aware that the NHRA teams are currently in Las Vegas this weekend.
2. They are aware these teams will be travelling to Pomona for the event two weeks later.
3. They identified certain teams that use legal 53’ trailers, and also named others that have 56’ trailers.
4. They are aware that most teams are based in Indianapolis.
5. On Monday, they were on a conference call with the Indiana State Police regarding enforcement of over-length trailers in Indiana. ,
Our efforts to this point have been an attempt to arrive at a short term solution for the Auto Club NHRA Finals. Unfortunately, despite everyone’s efforts, a resolution to the matter has not yet been reached.
• Caltrans is the agency that creates and issues permits. They have made it very clear that permits do NOT exist for this purpose and, at this point, are unwilling to consider creating a permit.
• The CHP’s position is that it is their responsibility to “enforce the law” and the teams responsibility to “comply with the law”. Their opinion is that the law was revised in the late 90’s to accommodate motorsport transporters and there is little willingness on their part to further amend a long standing law (the same law that exists in most other states). They also expressed they are “not supportive of exempting longer trailers”. We do not have a sense as to how aggressively they plan on enforcing this law.
While there is no immediate resolution, the CHP suggested transporting race cars and support equipment in rented legal length trailers - then contract with a transport service to haul the 56’ trailer on a lowboy (permits do exist for this purpose). Another suggestion was to investigate the possibility of shipping the trailers and contents by rail from Las Vegas to Pomona area.
Anything your team could do to use your influence and/or connections to assist in this matter could be beneficial.
Thanks,
Graham
mw6789
Nitro Member
Seems funny to me that grandpaw in his 40K lb motorhome as large as a Greyhound bus doesn't have to stop at the scales or even have a special drivers license. The next largest thing he drives is a Toyota Camry. I certainly understand regulation of large commercial vehicles, but some of this is ridiculous and nothing more than REVENUE GENERATION---just like the local speed trap to catch somebody doing 32 in a 25 mph zone. And why in the world ANYBODY fools with doing business of any sort in Kalifornia is a mystery to me. Got to be the most business unfriendly place on the planet. Last one out turn out the lights---let the illegals use candles.
Bullard Anderson
Nitro Member
Probably been stated early but an exemption should be in place due the amount of money 2 events bring into the community and surrounding areas. Hotels, restuarants, etc.
This is mainly a State House and Governor not understanding how things work.
I will also say "surely" there has been a major play by the NHRA to avoid this problem. SURELY they have taken this to Sacramento to get this changed for NHRA haulers. Especially since the NHRA is stationed in Glendora and should be on top of this situation first and foremost.
i.e. Protecting the racers in our own backyard.
DAMN!
This is mainly a State House and Governor not understanding how things work.
I will also say "surely" there has been a major play by the NHRA to avoid this problem. SURELY they have taken this to Sacramento to get this changed for NHRA haulers. Especially since the NHRA is stationed in Glendora and should be on top of this situation first and foremost.
i.e. Protecting the racers in our own backyard.
DAMN!
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Registered member said:
Draw 3D
Nitro Member
The Cal law has been around for quite awhile and most racers know, or SHOULD know the laws of the states they enter, they have only themselves to blame.
Hell there was even a thread on here I think last week asking about that specific law and I posted a link to the Cal laws, too bad that thread disappeared.
If you think the state law is bad, get the feds involved and see how it will end up with them regulating every tidbit of the race car hauling business.
yoda
Nitro Member
Maybe everyone needs to go back to a Chaparral Trailer and Crew Cab.
Seems to still work for the Greek.
I was thinking this by the fourth post....
glofria
Nitro Member
As posted somewhere else, here is the link to the State website explaining the regulation; Motorsports Routes
This is nothing new, only now being enforced and from what I can gather everyone effected by this knew well ahead of time. As a judge once told me, "Ignorance is not a defense." And some of you are right, it's all about the money.
I also agree what someone else said about California, "I just wished more people would hate it."
This is nothing new, only now being enforced and from what I can gather everyone effected by this knew well ahead of time. As a judge once told me, "Ignorance is not a defense." And some of you are right, it's all about the money.
I also agree what someone else said about California, "I just wished more people would hate it."
Horsepower & Heels
Nitro Member
I think its the hypocritical solution that is most irritating.
"No, we won't grant you an oversize permit to transport in CA, but we'll gladly take your money and be ridiculous about making accommodations to load your slightly oversize load onto an even LARGER 80' lowboy that we WILL permit to move you."
"No, we won't grant you an oversize permit to transport in CA, but we'll gladly take your money and be ridiculous about making accommodations to load your slightly oversize load onto an even LARGER 80' lowboy that we WILL permit to move you."
In Graham's e-mail, he said the following:
I'm guessing that Force is one of the teams that use the 53' trailers given that his operations are split between Brownsville and Yorba Linda.....though I may be wrong. Anyone have any idea of who the other "legal" teams may be?
I'm guessing that Force is one of the teams that use the 53' trailers given that his operations are split between Brownsville and Yorba Linda.....though I may be wrong. Anyone have any idea of who the other "legal" teams may be?
Crash
Nitro Member
I agree completely. that is the single most ridiculous thing about this whole mess...how is it possibly better to have a trailer that is too big loaded on an even bigger trailer? Government idiocy at it's best....this is stupid even for CA.... all that being said, maybe people should do some homework before building an oversize trailer?
This restriction exists in many if not most states. Drive down any Interstate and look at the number on the front side of most comercial trailers and you'll find it's 53. The problem is not with California but with those who build a longer trailer hoping to get around the laws and then cry when its enforced. Play by the rules or don't play.
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