Sportsman rumor

[mastertone]

First, let's get the terminology correct. The effect you're talking about is the throttle stop, not the delay box. The delay box delays the time from the release of the transbrake button and the actual release of the transbrake. It helps prevent red lights. The throttle stop is what slows it down after launch.

As for big end vs. at the start, some people do that, but it's rare. It's more consistent to do the stop on the launch. And since consistency is the name of the game in the super classes, most people do it right after launch.

Finally, a super race without the modern throttle stops is possible, but again, do you want tight racing, or something to please the fans? According to people here, no one watches Super classes, so...

Something to please the fans would be good for all involved, racers & spectators.

 

[Chuck]

Well put Terry, Christopher and Dave. I agree with all three, I run the throttle stop because it is what has "evolved", but would gladly get rid of it IF everyone else did.

Dave, I also think 200 mph S/C cars are TOO fast. There are a couple of D-4 S/ST cars that run 160. Also TOO fast in my opinion. Unfortunately there are people out there that think it is neccessary to run 1000 hp and 10.90s.

 

[mastertone]

Without de-railing this thread any further, I think getting ride of Comp would be a complete mistake. These are some brilliant minds that compete in that class and it would be a huge negative to Drag Racing if Comp was done away with.

With regards to throttle stops and Super class racing, get rid of the throttle stops. I run a Super Comp Altered and I don't use one, never used one, and never will. It's probably dumb on my part since everybody else uses one, but I just refuse to run one. Running a Super Class car can be done without a throttle stop. The only reason throttle stops are used is because these people insist on running huge horsepower engines so they can "drive the finish line" and chase down the other car. Running 8.90 at 200+MPH is just plain nuts. If you can run that fast go run a heads up class. The way to put an end to this type of Racing, institute a speed limit for Super Class cars. 9.90 should be between 135MPH and 145MPH and Super Comp should be between 150MPH and 160MPH. That would take care of all of this stopping and starting and chasing the other car at big speed. If you are a good enough Driver and Tunner, you can make your car run on the index. Actually, it's kinda like Bracket Racing.

I will come down from my soap box now.

Dave

Excellent idea Dave! SG breaks out at 145mph & SC at 160mph.

 

[You!]

Not that I'm for or against either option, but both Top Dragster and Top Sportsman (or Top Comp) have gained a fairly large following of racers over the last couple of years.

If they killed Comp, most if not all of those cars could go into these other two categories, and since they're both a dial-in class, no post race tech inspection would be required. I'm just not sure where the altereds would go...probably Top Dragster since they are open wheeled cars.

It actually makes a fair amount of sense.

 

[Super Mod]

Not that I'm for or against either option, but both Top Dragster and Top Sportsman (or Top Comp) have gained a fairly large following of racers over the last couple of years.

If they killed Comp, most if not all of those cars could go into these other two categories

I wouldn't post this on insidecompracing.com Bill. This is a totally false statement.

 

[haagar]

Not that I'm for or against either option, but both Top Dragster and Top Sportsman (or Top Comp) have gained a fairly large following of racers over the last couple of years.

If they killed Comp, most if not all of those cars could go into these other two categories, and since they're both a dial-in class, no post race tech inspection would be required. I'm just not sure where the altereds would go...probably Top Dragster since they are open wheeled cars.

It actually makes a fair amount of sense.

There are probably a fair number of comp cars that wouldn't really fit into those classes (they might be able to race in them, but wouldn't really be at home) and most of the people that I know who own comp cars wouldn't want to run in them.

And does anyone know if the super mods would be legal for top sportsman? The former pro stock trucks? The turbo cars? The full bodied AA/AM and BB/AM?

Would the nostaglia dragsters be legal for top dragster?

Those are serious questions and I actually am curious to know the answer.

 

[You!]

I wouldn't post this on insidecompracing.com Bill. This is a totally false statement.

Please do explain what part of my post was false.

EDIT>>> Wait Jack, you're absolutely right! I wasn't thinking about the high 7 second and slower dragsters, altereds and door cars in Comp. You're completely correct and my initial thought was way, way off base. Again, I'm not in agreement that Comp Eliminator should be eliminated as it were, just trying to find a silver lining.

So I do apologize Jack. I didn't think it all the way through.

 

[nick name]

... Anyway, Jeremy, I'm not attacking you for your views..you are certainly entitled to like whichever classes you like best. I just wanted to explain a little bit how most of us ended up in the Super classes, and barring hitting the powerball, that's where most of us will stay, doing the best we can, racing what we can afford (well, ALMOST afford).

Terry, that was probably the best defense of Super racing I've ever read. You make a great spokesman for the class.

I may offend a lot of racers, but I wanted to share a thought that hit me like a ton of bricks while attending my first ADRL race.

Every pair got the same green light and ran to the finish line. It was brutally simply and easy to watch even for someone who'd never been to a track.

People are coming up with all sorts of explanations as to why the ADRL is doing so well. When you look at the parallel explosion of Top Sportsman and Top Dragster the reason is crystal clear in my mind. There are no throttle stops! While the Top racers might race the finish line they're generally going too fast to make it very obvious.

I understand how accessible and affordable bracket racing is for 99% of drag racers. But until someone grows the cojones to stand up to the manufacturers (and yes, sponsors) who make the electronics, most of drag racing is going to continue to be an acquired taste for those who choose become seriously involved.

Find a way to just line cars up and run them to the line. Then stand back and watch the crowds roll in. ADRL knows this, and even the ludicrous bald guy on Pinks figured it out.

 

[clwill]

The easiest, cleanest and fastest way (pun intended) to "fix" super racing would be to bump the indexes by a second. S/C to 7.90, S/G to 8.90, and so on. 99% of people today can make this number. It would dramatically change the amount of throttle stop hit people would be able to take, and therefore not look anywhere near so silly to fans. And it would make sense out of the faster cars in the classes.

A speed limit is not a good idea, half of what people complain about is breaking out, the last thing we need is another way to break out.

 

[DE3]

Please do explain what part of my post was false.

EDIT>>> Wait Jack, you're absolutely right! I wasn't thinking about the high 7 second and slower dragsters, altereds and door cars in Comp. You're completely correct and my initial thought was way, way off base. Again, I'm not in agreement that Comp Eliminator should be eliminated as it were, just trying to find a silver lining.

So I do apologize Jack. I didn't think it all the way through.

In actuality, there's really no dragster in Comp that would be too competitive in TD. Remember, after qualifying, TD is a dial in class. Most of those cars are four link or monoshock, built for ultra consistency. Comp cars are built as hardtails and to be right on the edge to get the most ET, with consistency not necessarily the priority. At tracks with a few bumps, there would be a major advantage to the sprung car.

 

[cantdrive55]

To make up for my half hearted attempt at humor earlier in the thread, I really don't want to see Comp disappear. To me, Comp is one of the coolest classes in NHRA. Where else can you have a '32 Bantam roadster with a 4 cylinder jeep engine nestled in the frame rails taking on a twin turbo v8 powered Pro Stock style Mustang?

 

[Reese]

In actuality, there's really no dragster in Comp that would be too competitive in TD. Remember, after qualifying, TD is a dial in class. Most of those cars are four link or monoshock, built for ultra consistency. Comp cars are built as hardtails and to be right on the edge to get the most ET, with consistency not necessarily the priority. At tracks with a few bumps, there would be a major advantage to the sprung car.

Yea, that would be a high dollar Top dragster/sportsmans if you ran a comp car in that class.
As far as you comment about on the edge, a racer once told me when I asked why he didn't run his comp dragster in the bi-weekly brackets, he said "if you can run a comp dragster weekly it not fast or you are rich."

 

[Silly Savage]

On a side note, has the NHRA brass ever seen the stands when the electronic robot classes run at a national event?

It is hard for the "brass" to see the stands while they are in the pro pits with their lips planted on the ass of JFR....

 

[Toejam]

Not that I'm for or against either option, but both Top Dragster and Top Sportsman (or Top Comp) have gained a fairly large following of racers over the last couple of years.

If they killed Comp, most if not all of those cars could go into these other two categories, and since they're both a dial-in class, no post race tech inspection would be required. I'm just not sure where the altereds would go...probably Top Dragster since they are open wheeled cars.

It actually makes a fair amount of sense.

I think I'd enjoy watching TD and TS at a Natl.

 

[mastertone]

It is hard for the "brass" to see the stands while they are in the pro pits with their lips planted on the ass of JFR....

Now thats funny.

 

[Crash]

I understand how accessible and affordable bracket racing is for 99% of drag racers. But until someone grows the cojones to stand up to the manufacturers (and yes, sponsors) who make the electronics,
QUOTE]

The price of the electronics is really a very small piece of the puzzle...basically not even part of the argument. Do people really think Dedenbear and Biondo (my car is low-tech and has been broken for a couple of years, so my examples may be outdated) are holding NHRA hostage to keep the Super Classes? That is absolutely ignorant.
You have a delay box, throttle stop, and a weather station.
Big deal. The weather station you need no matter what kind of racing you are doing. The delay box and throttle stop don't add up to $1000.00
The big money is in the 1 year old Pro Stock cars (or brand new RJ C/M chassis, carbon fiber body cars) people are running, along with the 5,6,7-hundred inch motors that the throttle stop allows you to run.

Back to the original discussion, Comp is a great class, and has an added benefit of giving the Pro Stock guys a place to sell their slightly outdated or used up stuff....

 

[clwill]

The price of the electronics is really a very small piece of the puzzle...basically not even part of the argument.

True enough. If you buy the top of the line control and stop (from Biondo, Dedenbear, whoever), you're probably out less than $1500. That's less than 2-3% of the cost of a competitive Super class car these days. All the money is in the four-link chassis and the monster motor. And you need those to run T/D, T/C, T/S or any other "non-robot" class competitively these days.

Nope, the money's going where drag racing money has always gone: to the engine builder, the chassis guy, and the hundreds of laps it takes to be good enough to be competitive. The electronics argument is just a whine from the Luddites.

 

[possum]

If they got rid of Comp it'd be one of their biggest blunders. Perhaps they forget when many Pro drivers come from?

Super Gas is hardly watchable at all even to a guy who'll watch most anything. Super Comp though is just as bad since even though the throttle stoppage isn't as obvious the variety is lacking and they take longer to run.
The electronics never should have been allowed but now that they are it's harder to reign it in. Who the heck knows how many "Matty box" devices are in use ?

Make me NHRA president and not only would I have my chauffeur race the Bentley limo i'd ban all electronics and modify the indexes. You show up with a 632 cubic inch 2100 lb Roadster and you will be in the 7.90 class unless I think there's six second potential.

 

[clwill]

Perhaps they forget when many Pro drivers come from?

Yep, Super Comp

 

[Draw 3D]

First, the rumor is just that and this should clear things up.

Second I almost went to SC and after studying it for awhile, I came to realize that I don't like any class with throttle-stops and delay boxes, period!

Instead, I'm going with TD old-school style, a blown altered with no throttle-stops or delay boxes. My personal opinion is to get rid of those devices on all classes and let the driver be the driver.

Third, if anybody think it's cheap to run 6's and 7's, try building one and will find out specially when you get "racers" who fork over well over $75k for a "built" car and have deep wallets and are not afraid to hurt it.

Anyways, Comp, and I love this class, is here to stay and TD/TS will be featured at national events. The price of racing TD just went up!