Pro Mods (1 Viewer)

[Notch1320]

After watching all the Pro Mod crashes over the weekend I think that it is the most dangerous class currently in the sport. High horsepower in a short wheelbase with a suspended rear suspension is a recipe for disaster. The early Funny Cars ran a suspended rear end and had a lot of problems until they went to a solid mounted rear end and I think that the Pro Mods should do the same.

Any thoughts?

 

[Huge]

I have thought for a long time that with the power they are making and lack of down force is make pro mod a Russian Roulette class.

 

[FABMAN]

After watching all the Pro Mod crashes over the weekend I think that it is the most dangerous class currently in the sport. High horsepower in a short wheelbase with a suspended rear suspension is a recipe for disaster. The early Funny Cars ran a suspended rear end and had a lot of problems until they went to a solid mounted rear end and I think that the Pro Mods should do the same.

Any thoughts?

Chutes wrapped in willy bars was cause of first wreck possibly air bottle was not turned on. Steve's Mustang was having issues staying on track all weekend then crashed first round. What's going on these builders are putting belly pans on these car help with speed and doing so they lose down force makes car very loose unstable I call it paper plate effect in result destroyed a real nice car.

 

[Cliff]

After watching all the Pro Mod crashes over the weekend I think that it is the most dangerous class currently in the sport. High horsepower in a short wheelbase with a suspended rear suspension is a recipe for disaster. The early Funny Cars ran a suspended rear end and had a lot of problems until they went to a solid mounted rear end and I think that the Pro Mods should do the same.

Any thoughts?

I think a lot of Pro Mod drivers feel the same way, but I guess it's up to the rules makers. No one ever thought this class would be going so fast. If they allowed screw blowers, the MPH & ET would be the same as TA/FC.

 

[Nunz]

Bob I tend to agree. Not sure why the powers that be feel these cars should be suspended at this point. Both of those cars that wrecked this weekend were really gorgeous race cars, such a shame to see them destroyed. Not saying being solid mounted would have prevented the crashes this weekend, but overall I believe it should be looked at.

 

[mick]

........these builders are putting belly pans on these car help with speed and doing so they lose down force makes car very loose unstable I call it paper plate effect.......

wondered the same jesse. why not turn those belly pans into ground effect venturis?

 

[Bob K.]

What also comes into play is the engine being so far forward. I do agree that lack of down force is the main factor though.

 

[FABMAN]

wondered the same jesse. why not turn those belly pans into ground effect venturis?

Leaving tubing expose it breaks up air flow and creates down Force which they can control with spoiler but it will slow car a little. Thier theory is right but risky. If you watched Steve in qualifying his car started lifting about mid track scary. I'm not with these phones if someone can put that pass on here you can see it

 

[glofria]

Chutes wrapped in willy bars was cause of first wreck possibly air bottle was not turned on. Steve's Mustang was having issues staying on track all weekend then crashed first round. What's going on these builders are putting belly pans on these car help with speed and doing so they lose down force makes car very loose unstable I call it paper plate effect in result destroyed a real nice car.

Jessie,

I beg to differ on you assessment. What "undertrays" do in theory is the opposite of what you described. This is how I was taught (cut and pasted);

Flat or stepped flat surface on the bottom of open wheel and sports prototype racing cars. Theory has varied along with aerodynamic developments and regulations, from the sidepod tunnels of ground effect to the flat undertrays of the 1980s in various attempts to use aerodynamics to suck the cars closer to the bitumen, minimising the air underneath the car that could slow its progress. Today most such categories feature a stepped undertray with sidepods siting higher in the air than the centre of the car, usually mandated by series organisers in an attempt to limit vehicle performance. Also refers to flat surfaces extending behind splitters in sedan and GT based racing cars.

What they should be allow to use is a Wickerbill on the back of a spoiler. I think I remember W. Johnson experimenting with the concept at one time. The down side is it causes drag. However I will say this, it is not an NHRA issue. The Pro Mod Teams are going further over the edge with the way the rules are now.

We have an undertray, wickerbill on the spoiler and a front lip under the bumper on our car as you can see in this picture. Note we are not running all out for the fastest time, but rather an index so all these little aerodynamics tricks are not against the rule package we run under..

 

[Pete]

Steve’s crash looked like the right side tire got out of the groove right as the turbos kicked in...recipe for disaster.
There is a reason most of the turbo teams went to prochargers

 

[FABMAN]

Jessie,

I beg to differ on you assessment. What "undertrays" do in theory is the opposite of what you described. This is how I was taught (cut and pasted);

Flat or stepped flat surface on the bottom of open wheel and sports prototype racing cars. Theory has varied along with aerodynamic developments and regulations, from the sidepod tunnels of ground effect to the flat undertrays of the 1980s in various attempts to use aerodynamics to suck the cars closer to the bitumen, minimising the air underneath the car that could slow its progress. Today most such categories feature a stepped undertray with sidepods siting higher in the air than the centre of the car, usually mandated by series organisers in an attempt to limit vehicle performance. Also refers to flat surfaces extending behind splitters in sedan and GT based racing cars.

What they should be allow to use is a Wickerbill on the back of a spoiler. I think I remember W. Johnson experimenting with the concept at one time. The down side is it causes drag. However I will say this, it is not an NHRA issue. The Pro Mod Teams are going further over the edge with the way the rules are now.

We have an undertray, wickerbill on the spoiler and a front lip under the bumper on our car as you can see in this picture. Note we are not running all out for the fastest time, but rather an index so all these little aerodynamics tricks are not against the rule package we run under..

View attachment 6159

Jessie,

I beg to differ on you assessment. What "undertrays" do in theory is the opposite of what you described. This is how I was taught (cut and pasted);

Flat or stepped flat surface on the bottom of open wheel and sports prototype racing cars. Theory has varied along with aerodynamic developments and regulations, from the sidepod tunnels of ground effect to the flat undertrays of the 1980s in various attempts to use aerodynamics to suck the cars closer to the bitumen, minimising the air underneath the car that could slow its progress. Today most such categories feature a stepped undertray with sidepods siting higher in the air than the centre of the car, usually mandated by series organisers in an attempt to limit vehicle performance. Also refers to flat surfaces extending behind splitters in sedan and GT based racing cars.

What they should be allow to use is a Wickerbill on the back of a spoiler. I think I remember W. Johnson experimenting with the concept at one time. The down side is it causes drag. However I will say this, it is not an NHRA issue. The Pro Mod Teams are going further over the edge with the way the rules are now.

We have an undertray, wickerbill on the spoiler and a front lip under the bumper on our car as you can see in this picture. Note we are not running all out for the fastest time, but rather an index so all these little aerodynamics tricks are not against the rule package we run under..

View attachment 6159

Gino, your post is exactly what wrote. These pans are up to driver builder no rule infraction and I said the is were you dowjforce I do agree with you on stair stepping the pan but Steve

Jessie,

I beg to differ on you assessment. What "undertrays" do in theory is the opposite of what you described. This is how I was taught (cut and pasted);

Flat or stepped flat surface on the bottom of open wheel and sports prototype racing cars. Theory has varied along with aerodynamic developments and regulations, from the sidepod tunnels of ground effect to the flat undertrays of the 1980s in various attempts to use aerodynamics to suck the cars closer to the bitumen, minimising the air underneath the car that could slow its progress. Today most such categories feature a stepped undertray with sidepods siting higher in the air than the centre of the car, usually mandated by series organisers in an attempt to limit vehicle performance. Also refers to flat surfaces extending behind splitters in sedan and GT based racing cars.

What they should be allow to use is a Wickerbill on the back of a spoiler. I think I remember W. Johnson experimenting with the concept at one time. The down side is it causes drag. However I will say this, it is not an NHRA issue. The Pro Mod Teams are going further over the edge with the way the rules are now.

We have an undertray, wickerbill on the spoiler and a front lip under the bumper on our car as you can see in this picture. Note we are not running all out for the fastest time, but rather an index so all these little aerodynamics tricks are not against the rule package we run under..

View attachment 6159

 

[FABMAN]

I will try to continue I agree with you on pan but Steve's was not done such it was flat and that could cause lift you could it in qualifying and we saw the results in 1st round. I'm surprised with his connection he put the car in wind tunnel. I know what these Pro Mod guys are doing but its risky
Sorry about post keyboard is a mess I need new phone

 

[stitcherbob]

Parachutes have to be deployed as soon as the car goes awry....but things happen so fast it may come down to automatic shut offs, which I usually detest when it can change the outcome of a race, but once a PM is out of shape it needs to be done to straighten out the car or keep it from barrel rolling...brakes will just send you into a spin

 

[Nunz]

Maybe someone can post the link, there's a great article about Stevie Fast on Competionplus.com. He talked about the crashes and really emphasized the aero situation as being the real issue. Unless I misunderstood, it sounds like racers are taking wing OUT of these cars in an effort to go faster. I'm not sure on the rules regarding wings in PM, but I remember seeing some cars in the past with actual strut-type wings off the back, so I don't think it's a rules thing as much as racer choice.

 

[mick]

i don't think nhra has ever allowed under body venturi ground effects? amato's sidepods in late 80's may have had venturi effect design?

 

[glofria]

Maybe not, but they do allow belly pans.

I confess, I watch the video of Matusek's crash a little closer and he did have a wickerbill on the spoiler.

 

[Huge]

Here is a nice article from Comp Plus about Stevie Fast, and he talks about lack of down force.

CRASH THE WEEK BEFORE INDY, WIN THE NEXT WEEK: ANOTHER STEVIE FAST SUCCESS STORY | Competition Plus

Stevie "Fast" Jackson could relate to the plight of Pro Modified racers Kris Thorne and Steve Matusek, two unfortunate drivers who suffered crashes in Sunday's opening round at the Denso NHRA U.S. Nationals. Jackson captured his first win of 2020, a season admittedly tough on the psyche and the...

www.competitionplus.com

 

[Cliff]

Thanks Eugene.

 

[mick]

would still ask the question, would under body ground effect venturis be a solution? could a TF run with ground effects and no rear wing? (i don't think nhra rules allow it)
could a ProMod, which utilizes a flat under belly pan, produce adequate downforce with an underbody diffuser? or does a wickerbill on rear wing accomplish the same at
a much reduced expense? my best guess is that this kind of system would work, but how do you quickly adjust for changing conditions i.e. more or less drag, when relatively simple
adjustments can be made to rear wings / wickerbills / dragster rear wing elements.

 

[TSK]

What about changing the locations of the chute packs? Maybe angle them out the rear corners of the cars, instead of under the rear spoiler. The pilot chute would have a better chance of entering the air stream.
When a racer hits the chute lever he/she needs to know the chute will blossom as intended, not get sucked up under the wheelie bars.