Once again the Friday 12 rule strikes.....
- Thread starter my friends call me Zappy
- Start date
He showed, but had parts breakage.
I wasn't in Sonoma today. Were you?
Maybe the NHRA should go the route of that NFC group you shill for and just pay 8 cars to show up and tell the fans, this is what you get. I can see that being a very healthy business model.
Raconteur
Nitro Member
No I reported from Sears Point, Infineon and Sonoma for 12 years straight...
NFC racing is a lot more competitive than the NHRA pageant.
It isn't when you script the cast and outcomes.
But back to the original subject of this thread.
Can you please explain to me and everyone else how NHRA conspired and screwed racers this weekend from competing? Because I see it as following a rule (bad or good, matters not) that is on the books and this weekend was not precedent setting when it comes to its use.
So, how did NHRA screw anyone?
Last edited:
People understand it's a rule. They just don't like it.
That could also be worded as "People just want to bitch about anything when it comes to NHRA"
I would say it is more that people just get sick of the constant complaining about nothing, week after week after week after week after week.
There should be a weekly pool.
What will be the subject that draws the most complaints for a given week?
You could have a bonus question involved.
What is the stupidest complaint voiced.
More competitive? I have followed the March meet and the CHRR results, and you sure have a performance disparity there as well from the Top 5 to the rest!
willy
Nitro Member
It's whatever thread you get involved with, Greg.
Love ya, Man!
Frankly, it gets old seeing the same old "Dim Light and NHRA screwed up bad this weekend" and the obligatory "ESPN screwed me over personally this week by letting (insert sport) run long and now my DVR didn't pick up the race and my whole weekend is just RUINED now" posts every week.
The only threads that are worse are the monthly (usually timed with some hack on a website's thoughts) "NHRA Sucks and here is how to save it" ones.
Kinda like the people that come complain about threads, people and whatever else at the mater. Yet keep coming back.
Sure things can get overly critical at times. There are also post here praising NHRA decisions, when ESPN ran the live event long they applauded that. It is what you look for. If you want to see the negative, it is easy to find. If you want to see positives, you can find that as well.
Nothing wrong with people voicing opinions. You would be surprised the people that lurk here to see the opinions and to get the pulse of the people. I'm sure they watch other sites as well. Now do I expect great changes based on a message board, no, but bringing awareness is the first step.
Funny thing is there was a time when this place was slammed for kissing up to nhra all the time. Guess we just can't make everybody happy.
Sure things can get overly critical at times. There are also post here praising NHRA decisions, when ESPN ran the live event long they applauded that. It is what you look for. If you want to see the negative, it is easy to find. If you want to see positives, you can find that as well.
Nothing wrong with people voicing opinions. You would be surprised the people that lurk here to see the opinions and to get the pulse of the people. I'm sure they watch other sites as well. Now do I expect great changes based on a message board, no, but bringing awareness is the first step.
Funny thing is there was a time when this place was slammed for kissing up to nhra all the time. Guess we just can't make everybody happy.
Usual password less 1
Nitro Member
So just to refresh peoples memories, the Top 12 was brought into effect about 7 years ago. The reason? We used to run a lot more Friday night sessions, especially in the summer when it was HOT! If you missed the set up on Friday night or had parts breakage or a malfunction, you could run low ET of the day on Saturday and not qualify. That wasn't fair either since whether you qualified or not was based on ONE run. Now, things have changed. Car counts are a bit lower and we don't have nearly as many real night sessions, so that rule probably isn't as important anymore. What I can say though, is that if anything, the Top 12 rule helped out the lower financed teams a lot because it guaranteed them 4 spots to be available on Saturday.
Since I was standing on the starting line for Q4 F/C, I can say what I saw happened. As the cars went in to pre stage, the red lights came on, on the tree. This is usually the first sign of a problem. Then when both cars were staged the tree wouldn't go off. Finally after what seemed like 10 seconds, the tree came on and both cars ran, and then no scoreboards. What was obvious on that run was that Diehl definitely did not run faster than the 6 something bump spot, but Hale did. I spoke to a few of the crew chiefs and team owners on the line and none of us could figure out what they (NHRA) were going to do. I thought after the rest of the non qualified guys ran, hey just stick John Hale in the 16th spot and that sounded like it would have been pretty fair. BUT, then you remember all the times timing malfunctions have happened over the years or the other guy that you are racing takes out the finish line cones and nullifies your time and you begin to see that it would not be possible for NHRA to just make up a time slip, even though all the other teams knew it was fair. Do you think Russo or Densham ran over to NHRA and said, hey, just give those guys my spot, the qualifying money and the points? Probably not.... So I guess racing is not fair all the time. The only thing I maybe could have seen different is that when the tree obviously did something strange BEFORE both cars were staged, was that the Starter shut them off and allowed them to run at the back of the back as what happens from time to time. Then of course if they both smoke the tires you are going to get the old, "the clutch was too hot, or the engine was to hot....A hard scenario to win in. But I agree, Plueger and Hale for sure got the short end of the stick. They weren't the first and probably won't be the last!
Since I was standing on the starting line for Q4 F/C, I can say what I saw happened. As the cars went in to pre stage, the red lights came on, on the tree. This is usually the first sign of a problem. Then when both cars were staged the tree wouldn't go off. Finally after what seemed like 10 seconds, the tree came on and both cars ran, and then no scoreboards. What was obvious on that run was that Diehl definitely did not run faster than the 6 something bump spot, but Hale did. I spoke to a few of the crew chiefs and team owners on the line and none of us could figure out what they (NHRA) were going to do. I thought after the rest of the non qualified guys ran, hey just stick John Hale in the 16th spot and that sounded like it would have been pretty fair. BUT, then you remember all the times timing malfunctions have happened over the years or the other guy that you are racing takes out the finish line cones and nullifies your time and you begin to see that it would not be possible for NHRA to just make up a time slip, even though all the other teams knew it was fair. Do you think Russo or Densham ran over to NHRA and said, hey, just give those guys my spot, the qualifying money and the points? Probably not.... So I guess racing is not fair all the time. The only thing I maybe could have seen different is that when the tree obviously did something strange BEFORE both cars were staged, was that the Starter shut them off and allowed them to run at the back of the back as what happens from time to time. Then of course if they both smoke the tires you are going to get the old, "the clutch was too hot, or the engine was to hot....A hard scenario to win in. But I agree, Plueger and Hale for sure got the short end of the stick. They weren't the first and probably won't be the last!
Ugly one
Nitro Member
Troy Buff runs a 3.92 Friday and gets sent home for not making a solid pass on Saturday!
There's only 17 cars with Chrisman's best pass being more than 2 tenths slower than Troy's, but he gets his $10,500 for making the show. Nothing against Steve or his team, but this really needs to be rethought by NHRA when you have small fields (which has become the norm)
14. Terry McMillen Amalie Motor Oil Dragster 4.061 301.60
15. Steven Chrisman California Gear/Richmond Gear 4.164 260.81
16. Clay Millican Parts Plus Dragster 4.293 301.94
--------- Not Qualified ---------
17. Troy Buff BME Dragster 14.515 304.80
There's only 17 cars with Chrisman's best pass being more than 2 tenths slower than Troy's, but he gets his $10,500 for making the show. Nothing against Steve or his team, but this really needs to be rethought by NHRA when you have small fields (which has become the norm)
14. Terry McMillen Amalie Motor Oil Dragster 4.061 301.60
15. Steven Chrisman California Gear/Richmond Gear 4.164 260.81
16. Clay Millican Parts Plus Dragster 4.293 301.94
--------- Not Qualified ---------
17. Troy Buff BME Dragster 14.515 304.80
Just Paul
Nitro Member
Couple things.... I don't know why I even bother anymore, but here goes.
Timing system issue. It's terrible what happened, but, when this has happened before, there have been no re-runs. If NHRA let them re-run, it's unfair to the people that didn't get the chance before. Greg Anderson comes to mind from Vegas back in 2005/2006. Friday was rained out, and they got 2 shots on Saturday. Well Greg caught a glitch in the timing system on the first one, and didn't get a time on a run that could have been Low ET. He was down to 1 shot to get in.
Another example, Joe Amato ran 4.56 in Brained in 1997 and needed a back up to get the record. He came back and made one of the prettiest runs I have seen to this day. Carried the front end out to 200 feet and marched down the track only to get a timing glitch on what was an even quicker pass by the data, and would have reset the national record no question.
Those are just 2 examples, but the NHRA has been consistent on not allowing re-runs.
Top 12 qualifying issue. I get both sides 100 %.
I know why the rule was put into effect, and I don't mind it one bit. It's happened before multiple times where Low ET from Saturday does not qualify. How can low ET from one full day of qualifying not make the show?? People say, well he/she should have gotten in on Friday. Well reverse it now, the people that didn't qualify on Saturday should have gotten in Friday. It goes both ways. That's the way I look at it.
Another example. Robert Hight melted a car to the ground in Topeka in 2007. They built a back up car on the road and had to come into Joliet the next weekend. On the good Friday night run, it was on pace for Low Et and it broke an air fitting if I remember correctly, right down there 1000 feet or so, and we know what happens to the management systems when they loose air. Well it coasted across I want to say 4.88 and the bump was 4.87.
The heat wave comes in for Saturday, and it was one of the worst days for qualifying I have ever seen. I know a lot of you guys were there too. Nobody was making it down the track., it was awful. Robert comes up Q4 and sure as heck, he makes it down only to have the belt come off about 1200 feet and coasts to another I want to say 4.88 on an .87 bump. It was low ET by a ton, I don't think anyone else even ran in the 4's or anything close. By todays rules he would have been 13th.
Maybe NHRA should make a compromise?? Make it 14 and leave the bottom 2 spots open??
Timing system issue. It's terrible what happened, but, when this has happened before, there have been no re-runs. If NHRA let them re-run, it's unfair to the people that didn't get the chance before. Greg Anderson comes to mind from Vegas back in 2005/2006. Friday was rained out, and they got 2 shots on Saturday. Well Greg caught a glitch in the timing system on the first one, and didn't get a time on a run that could have been Low ET. He was down to 1 shot to get in.
Another example, Joe Amato ran 4.56 in Brained in 1997 and needed a back up to get the record. He came back and made one of the prettiest runs I have seen to this day. Carried the front end out to 200 feet and marched down the track only to get a timing glitch on what was an even quicker pass by the data, and would have reset the national record no question.
Those are just 2 examples, but the NHRA has been consistent on not allowing re-runs.
Top 12 qualifying issue. I get both sides 100 %.
I know why the rule was put into effect, and I don't mind it one bit. It's happened before multiple times where Low ET from Saturday does not qualify. How can low ET from one full day of qualifying not make the show?? People say, well he/she should have gotten in on Friday. Well reverse it now, the people that didn't qualify on Saturday should have gotten in Friday. It goes both ways. That's the way I look at it.
Another example. Robert Hight melted a car to the ground in Topeka in 2007. They built a back up car on the road and had to come into Joliet the next weekend. On the good Friday night run, it was on pace for Low Et and it broke an air fitting if I remember correctly, right down there 1000 feet or so, and we know what happens to the management systems when they loose air. Well it coasted across I want to say 4.88 and the bump was 4.87.
The heat wave comes in for Saturday, and it was one of the worst days for qualifying I have ever seen. I know a lot of you guys were there too. Nobody was making it down the track., it was awful. Robert comes up Q4 and sure as heck, he makes it down only to have the belt come off about 1200 feet and coasts to another I want to say 4.88 on an .87 bump. It was low ET by a ton, I don't think anyone else even ran in the 4's or anything close. By todays rules he would have been 13th.
Maybe NHRA should make a compromise?? Make it 14 and leave the bottom 2 spots open??
Last edited:
JP1Special
Nitro Member
Bottom line here is that the issue was with the timing system, not the drivers or the cars. There should have been a re-run for both. Steve and Paul were NOT happy. That's a long haul to get screwed!! It'll be interesting to see how Bucky does in the car.
Can anyone who thinks they should have gotten a re-run go back into the past and point out where anyone else ever got one because of a timing system failure? Ever?
And also, can someone explain to me how, if the reason for a re-run would be that it wasn't the racers fault, re-runs aren't the norm when another team takes out the timing lights at the big end?
Some of ya'll make it sound like NHRA sat around Friday night and thought up ways to purposely screw these two teams over, just because.
That isn't what happened.
Unfortunate as it was, there is a phrase for what happened. Its called "that's racin".
And also, can someone explain to me how, if the reason for a re-run would be that it wasn't the racers fault, re-runs aren't the norm when another team takes out the timing lights at the big end?
Some of ya'll make it sound like NHRA sat around Friday night and thought up ways to purposely screw these two teams over, just because.
That isn't what happened.
Unfortunate as it was, there is a phrase for what happened. Its called "that's racin".
kansasnitro54
Nitro Member
WOW,4 pages.
Still boils down to the NHRA timing system FAILED.....and YES there has been a RARE re-run BUT that was in the P/S ranks if i recall.....
Was also a mention of the timing system screwed up on Robert Hight's 'double step' extra long light...
Robert was pissed and you could tell he WANTED to say more.....
Still boils down to the NHRA timing system FAILED.....and YES there has been a RARE re-run BUT that was in the P/S ranks if i recall.....
Was also a mention of the timing system screwed up on Robert Hight's 'double step' extra long light...
Robert was pissed and you could tell he WANTED to say more.....
Similar threads
