Once again the Friday 12 rule strikes..... (2 Viewers)

[my friends call me Zappy]

The situation between Hale, Diehl, Russo was a result of a poor rule. The tree was equipment failure, thru no fault of either driver,
two different problems.
As far as one car taking out the timing blocks, yer right the other car gets screwed. But apart from solo qualifying, .........
and no, I don't want to open THAT one.

 

[SundayNiagara]

I remember back in the 70s, at Indy, the tree malfunctioned with 2 floppers on the line. The race was re-run. Of course, Uncle Jack was running the show then. Trust me, because I was working in the tower, WP wasn't very happy.

 

[Toejam]

Ever since the NHRA adopted the 12 car policy for Friday, I have seen numerous cars who's Friday times would have qualified them had they run them on Saturday. But I don't see a whole lot of Drivers/Owners bitching about it!

 

[steve]

Add the 4 qualifying runs together. That would eliminate a lot of the issues.

 

[.]

Add the 4 qualifying runs together. That would eliminate a lot of the issues.

It would create a ton of issues.

You would have drivers who are solidly in the show not giving up on passes. Lets say someone is in the #3 spot, and they strike the tires right off the line in the 4th Q. Now, they just give up on the run and write it off as overpowering the track. If you add them together, now he (she) will jump back on it, probably lift a blower, or worse spit rods out at around 300 feet and oil the lane for everyone else.

And, how about someone who sets the ET record in Q2, but strikes the tires in Q3 and 4 and doesn't even make the show. How do you explain that? You run quicker than the national record, but don't get to race on Sunday?

No thanks.

 

[PJ]

Yes it is a rule, it is just not a good one. While it usually doesn't result in such a wide miss as we have this weekend. It does happen a few times a year that a faster car sits home.
It had nothing to do with not enough cars making passes on Sat. It was that teams that didn't get in on Friday night had little chance of doing it on Sat, especially in pro stock. I would rather see top 16 get in, I don't care when they do it. having the safety net, takes a little away from the qualifying records.

The bigger issue is that the cars did not get a re-run. This wasn't a matter of something taking out cones, the system failed. There have been instances where re-runs have happened before and bet your butt if either of these guys were a money team, they would have been given a re-run(and rightly so).
What I didn't see anyone point out was that despite both having trouble, that could have been due to the insane amount of time that they were forced to sit.
They were able to hold the race up on Friday for the sun with is not in their control, but are not able to do a re-run when they system that they control fails??? The top-12 argument wouldn't be here if NHRA had been done the right thing.

 

[PJ]

other ideas.

I don't like adding the top 4 together. Maybe average of best 3 but you may see more oil downs as drivers get back into passes that they normally wouldn't. Not ideal but better than this.

Top 8 each day. Friday gets 1-8, Saturday fills the rest. Might make for some very interesting first round match ups.

Ideally go back to the best 16 make it in.

 

[.]

Yes it is a rule, it is just not a good one. While it usually doesn't result in such a wide miss as we have this weekend. It does happen a few times a year that a faster car sits home.
It had nothing to do with not enough cars making passes on Sat. It was that teams that didn't get in on Friday night had little chance of doing it on Sat, especially in pro stock. I would rather see top 16 get in, I don't care when they do it. having the safety net, takes a little away from the qualifying records.

The bigger issue is that the cars did not get a re-run. This wasn't a matter of something taking out cones, the system failed. There have been instances where re-runs have happened before and bet your butt if either of these guys were a money team, they would have been given a re-run(and rightly so).
What I didn't see anyone point out was that despite both having trouble, that could have been due to the insane amount of time that they were forced to sit.
They were able to hold the race up on Friday for the sun with is not in their control, but are not able to do a re-run when they system that they control fails??? The top-12 argument wouldn't be here if NHRA had been done the right thing.

Technological failures are bound to happen. And I dare say NHRA has a better track record than the racers when it comes to getting cars accounted for when it comes to full passes. As for you saying that if these guys were on a money team they would have been given a re-run, I am going to call BS on that. I don't even know why you would try to pass that off as what would happen.

When was the last time a team got a re-run? And who was it? There have been instances of trash getting in the beams and other things, and I don't recall anyone getting another pass.

Now, if you want to give them re-runs for this, then yes, you have to give people who have the blocks taken out in front of them another shot. They are being penalized because of no fault of theirs, right?

The only reason someone would propose one of those situations and not accept the second is the obvious: Lets see what we can blame NHRA for this week because it feels better to sit around and complain about rules that have been in place for 7 years, and we have nothing else to point out that they have screwed up this week, so this is it.

 

[none]

<snip...>
And, how about someone who sets the ET record in Q2, but strikes the tires in Q3 and 4 and doesn't even make the show. How do you explain that? You run quicker than the national record, but don't get to race on Sunday?

Greg, I'm with you on "the rule is the rule" aspect, and I certainly remember why it was enacted.

But I'm not understanding your comment above. I can't recall (or even imagine) a scenario where someone who set an ET record in (Q1 or) Q2 wasn't quick enough to be in the 12-car provisional field. Has that actually happened, or did I misinterpret your comment?

 

[.]

Greg, I'm with you on "the rule is the rule" aspect, and I certainly remember why it was enacted.

But I'm not understanding your comment above. I can't recall (or even imagine) a scenario where someone who set an ET record in (Q1 or) Q2 wasn't quick enough to be in the 12-car provisional field. Has that actually happened, or did I misinterpret your comment?

It was in response to adding run times together to set the field. A foolish idea if you ask me.

 

[Ugly one]

When the pro fields were averaging 22+ at the events it helped the lessor funded team that didn't have the budget or data to swing for the fence on Friday night.
That was then, not now. When you're only getting 16 to 18 cars showing up at a Wacky World race it's time to rethink the situation. Knowing Steve, Paul, Ron, Sonny, Rick, Steve and even Bad Brad just makes it hit home a lot harder. All of these guys have a real job and a life other than racing, yet love the sport so much they all sacrifice 2 nights a week and every Sunday to make sure they can go racing 6-8 times a year and get screwed.
Time for racers & fans to stand up and be heard, get rid of the current establishment and find racers that care to run the board of directors
Solution..... Time to get rid of the top 12 with less than 20 cars in the field. All of the NON pro classes seem to work just fine without it

 

[Shaggy]

This whole discussion is actually about 2 different problems where one possibly made the other happen. I understand the 12 car deal, although I dont agree with it. Where I see the real problem here is what someone else said earlier. NHRA did not take responsibility when something that THEY the NHRA are in control of while holding an event malfunctioning. Other racers taking out cones is not their responsibility but it is the racers themselves, so that argument is apples and oranges.

Now if that whole situation did not happen or was fixed, the 12 car rule possibly never would have been such a dramatic issue in this instance.

 

[Butch]

And to add more gas to the fire.
Russo couldn't fire up on the line.

I see an easy way to eliminate this top 12 BS. Go back to daytime qualifying and eliminate that mineshaft one run near perfect condition pass.

 

[kansasnitro54]

Zappy i am with ya!
I think the rules do say atleast 1 pas taking a geen light,unsure of if 2 PASSES are required.....
Tony Pedregon has sat out 2 qlaifying sessions.normally the Q1 and depending on the situation Q4 now and again.
NHRA lately HAS no common sense... judge that by letting 5 year old in JR dragster??

As a martial arts instructor we wait til;l they are 8 years old..... JMO

 

[DG]

Diehl starts to drop cylinders right off the line and then has the parachutes open. Backfire?

Hale get way down track before his engine starts to get unhappy. There are dropped cylinders, a flash from the blower, and a little fire from underneath the body.

There were no time on the scoreboard or on our computer feed, so it's a timing problem.

I would guess Diehl wasn't going to make it anyway, timing or not, and possibly Hale either. If they both blistered the quart... 1,000 foot and no times came up, I could see the relevance of a re-run. In this instance I think it didn't matter, why get another chance.

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[yoda]

...
NHRA lately HAS no common sense... judge that by letting 5 year old in JR dragster??

As a martial arts instructor we wait til;l they are 8 years old..... JMO

Gonna have to disagree with ya Clipper... Seen a few of the 5 y.o. trainees run some passes- everyone is very attentive to everything that is going on, and the kids so far have made some nice straight passes... It is almost like watching paint dry, but the smile on the kids faces when they are out of the car says they are hooked for life.

 

[Luke Nieuwhof]

And to add more gas to the fire.
Russo couldn't fire up on the line.

I see an easy way to eliminate this top 12 BS. Go back to daytime qualifying and eliminate that mineshaft one run near perfect condition pass.

It has nothing to do with Russo, he was simply the innocent benefactor of the whole situation. OK now I'll take my Australian hat off.
The lights flashed red before the cars launched, perhaps that was the opportunity there to shut them down and reset the system? But of course it is VERY easy to say this in hindsight - I don't envy the job of the starter and he does a great job.
Night time qualifying is a fan favourite - one of the strength of drag racing is nitro flames! Instead of deleting one of the spectacles of the sport, why not make Saturday night a thing as well? It would be cool to see teams have a chance at shooting for number one spot in the last session of the weekend.
Of course then the teams don't get as much data for Sunday, so that is the downside. But then everyone is in the same position, how much would it affect Sunday racing? Would be interested in the view of a crew chief/member on that?

 

[PJ]

If I recall, the teams were against a night Saturday session. It made for a late night going into race Sunday and if there was any type of major repairs that were needed, if would give them less time.

 

[PJ]

and the no-show bye run just adds fuel for the fire

 

[.]

and the no-show bye run just adds fuel for the fire

It only adds fuel for the ones who want to make a fire out of nothing.