Once again the Friday 12 rule strikes..... (1 Viewer)

WOW,4 pages.
Still boils down to the NHRA timing system FAILED.....and YES there has been a RARE re-run BUT that was in the P/S ranks if i recall.....
Was also a mention of the timing system screwed up on Robert Hight's 'double step' extra long light...
Robert was pissed and you could tell he WANTED to say more.....

You are going to have to do better than "if I recall" when it comes to re-runs. Because I can honestly say I have never heard of a re-run being given. If you have some sort citation, I would love to see it. Believe me, if they ever gave out one of those, they would have to give them out at virtually every race ever held.

One guy double steps and red lights by over .15 and it is a light problem? The only pro to have an issue all day? Are you serious?
 
Was also a mention of the timing system screwed up on Robert Hight's 'double step' extra long light...
Robert was pissed and you could tell he WANTED to say more.....

Just curious, who mentioned that, because I obviously missed someone saying that?? And honestly, I think it's hilarious that anyone would think that Robert's F-up was "timing" related!!! The only system issue that Robert had was between his ears on Sunday o_O
 
Troy Buff runs a 3.92 Friday and gets sent home for not making a solid pass on Saturday!
There's only 17 cars with Chrisman's best pass being more than 2 tenths slower than Troy's, but he gets his $10,500 for making the show. Nothing against Steve or his team, but this really needs to be rethought by NHRA when you have small fields (which has become the norm)

14. Terry McMillen Amalie Motor Oil Dragster 4.061 301.60
15. Steven Chrisman California Gear/Richmond Gear 4.164 260.81
16. Clay Millican Parts Plus Dragster 4.293 301.94
--------- Not Qualified ---------
17. Troy Buff BME Dragster 14.515 304.80

Agreed...
 
So because people 5, 10 or 20 years ago were screwed, it shouldn't fix it now?

A competitor taking out the cones is in the act of competition. I suppose it could be argued that you should have been in front of them.

In this instance they were not given the equipment to make a run.

Once the red lights flash, isn't that the kill sign? If one or both of them had shut it off, would they have been allowed another shot then?
We've all seen that happen but usually once the reds come on, they stay on. It doesn't reset then still give the light.
 
So because people 5, 10 or 20 years ago were screwed, it shouldn't fix it now?

A competitor taking out the cones is in the act of competition. I suppose it could be argued that you should have been in front of them.

In this instance they were not given the equipment to make a run.

Once the red lights flash, isn't that the kill sign? If one or both of them had shut it off, would they have been allowed another shot then?
We've all seen that happen but usually once the reds come on, they stay on. It doesn't reset then still give the light.

A couple of things.

I don't know what your 5, 10, or 20 year comment means. I am sure NHRA doesn't consider the situation "fixed". But, this is also a good time to clear up another statement that is being passed off as fact that I don't believe to be the case. The timing system is owned by the track. So, everyone can quit blaming NHRA for this issue and point back at the track. Now, yes, it can be argued that NHRA takes control of that system, but, if there is a problem with it, it isn't NHRA's doing. If I am wrong about who owns the system, please, someone point it out to me.

As for the rest, you are parsing words. It becomes an act of competition when the car is started behind the line it could be argued.
But, I will stand by my argument (which is the very same argument some others are making) that if the lights fail due to no fault of a driver or team involved, why can they not have a re-run? I suppose you could argue that it is because it is not a technical issue at that point, but bottom line is, much like the current situation, they had a run DQ'd for no fault of their own. Its the good for the goose and gander argument.

The last part of your post points out, but I am not sure you intended for it to, that some of the responsibility belongs on the shoulders of the drivers involved. If that red flashed, they didn't have to stage, and could have shut the fuel off and maybe then, (and only then) they get shoved to the back for another Q attempt. But once they lit the bulb, it was race time.

I know a lot of people want to (in no particular order) attempt to :
cast blame on Light and the NHRA,
get the rule and process changed
dig up ways to get their favorites re-runs when stuff happens.

None of which is going to happen.
First, Light and NHRA went to the rule book, saw what it said, and reacted just as the rules say they should.
Second, there has to be some sort of method to satisfy everyone with the Saturday Q issue. Just changing it again for the sake of changing it, doesn't cut it. This is not something that happens so often that a rules change is needed. At some point, if they keep racing long enough, those who didn't make the field will make it based on a Saturday pass, and those who did make it will get bumped. That is just the law of averages catching up.

NHRA doesn't give re-runs, so everyone can just quit that line of thinking now. They arent going to start giving them over this. It just aint gonna happen.
 
You are right you do not get a re run but if the tree malfunctions before the lights come on and the driver leaves then you get to run at the back of the session. It has happened many times including twice to myself. The only way they would have got to run was if the STARTER would have noticed the problem with the tree and told Hale and Diehl to shut their cars off before they staged. As we all know, sometimes electronics malfunction. Those guys just had bad timing with both of them not being qualified before Q4
 
It was mention that since people in the past didn't get re-runs it would be unfair if they were given now.

I don't have it one tape but I think they were at least pre-stage if not staged when the lights flashed red.


And to appease people and it an effort to be balanced, I will say that it is awesome that timing system worked great...except when it didn't:D
 
You are right you do not get a re run but if the tree malfunctions before the lights come on and the driver leaves then you get to run at the back of the session. It has happened many times including twice to myself. The only way they would have got to run was if the STARTER would have noticed the problem with the tree and told Hale and Diehl to shut their cars off before they staged. As we all know, sometimes electronics malfunction. Those guys just had bad timing with both of them not being qualified before Q4

I agree with everything you said Jeff. We have all seen them move a pair to the back (for whatever reason). And you are right, had the starter shut them off, it would have been reason enough to get moved.

And I also agree that it was just bad luck for those involved. Sometimes you're the bug. It happens. It's called racin. It just happened to amplify when they weren't in the show

But I will also stand by what I said earlier (not that you are saying any different) that what happened this weekend is not reason enough to change the 12 spot provisional format. We are coming up to the hottest part of what has been a very mild summer. Wait until we have 95 degree ambient temps on Friday night and 105+ on Saturday afternoon and someone is going to complain that the format got changed back to benefit Friday night Q shots. Might not happen this year, but it will happen.

A lot of people forget just how miserable it was to go into St Louis in August and try to qualify if you missed your setup on Friday night.
 
Thx for the video Michael it makes it a little more clear about what happened. I had not seen the video previously, so that clears up some things.

Not sure it changes my mind about the re-run aspect, but at least I have a better understanding of what happened.
 
This was an example of bad starting line management by the starter-NHRA. When the tree first malfunctioned he is looking directly at it, and looks like he is talking on his headset. He should have killed it right then, it was a bad choice by NHRA not a rule issue. If the tree malfunctioned, as it did, before the run NHRA has the obligation to check the system before they run the the next pair.

The principle here is unrelated to whether or not the cars needed the run to qualify, but it is about how NHRA can provide a reasonable remedy in the circumstances. What would they do if this happened during eliminations with non obvious results? Rules typically have extenuating circumstance clauses anyway. G Light illogic has shown more than once, blind adherence when blind to other facts is a failure to think. Rules are to provide fair and predictable guidelines, but when the unpredictable happens fairness should prevail whenever possible.
 
This was an example of bad starting line management by the starter-NHRA. When the tree first malfunctioned he is looking directly at it, and looks like he is talking on his headset. He should have killed it right then, it was a bad choice by NHRA not a rule issue. If the tree malfunctioned, as it did, before the run NHRA has the obligation to check the system before they run the the next pair.

The principle here is unrelated to whether or not the cars needed the run to qualify, but it is about how NHRA can provide a reasonable remedy in the circumstances. What would they do if this happened during eliminations with non obvious results? Rules typically have extenuating circumstance clauses anyway. G Light illogic has shown more than once, blind adherence when blind to other facts is a failure to think. Rules are to provide fair and predictable guidelines, but when the unpredictable happens fairness should prevail whenever possible.

There is already a precedent set (at the very same track) for things similar to this that happen in eliminations.

And no, a re-run was not given.

http://competitionplus.com/drag-rac...-explains-the-use-of-timing-system-guard-beam
 
Odd that it only flashes once too. Normally if something goes awry, it repeat flashes.
 
What happened to those new lights that were going to be introduced about 1 1/2 years ago now?
 
You are going to have to do better than "if I recall" when it comes to re-runs. Because I can honestly say I have never heard of a re-run being given. If you have some sort citation, I would love to see it. Believe me, if they ever gave out one of those, they would have to give them out at virtually every race ever held.

I can name a re-run that was given. Watch the 2002 Northwest Nationals Pro Stock final round. They ran that one twice.
 
2005 US Nationals Whit was given a second chance after Tony P took out his crew and starting line.

from dragracecentral.com


Left Lane: Tony Pedregon No Time, Now #12; Best prior run: 4.837/321.88, Was #12
Right Lane: Whit Bazemore No Time, Now #6; Best prior run: 4.795/324.12, Was #6

Bazemore made his burnout, but Pedregon's car was not idling properly, interfering with the burnout, and his crew tried to adjust the throttle linkage. Crew chief Dickie Venables signaled a crew member to lift the body and as he did so, the body hit the throttle linkage, causing the RPMs to surge. That engaged the clutch and the car lurched forward, knocking Venables to the side. The car made a hard right turn, ending up atop the "A-boards" in front of the starter's box. Venables was shaken, but walked away under his own power after the medics checked him over. The starting line electronics were severely torn up and the car's chassis was bent, so Tony is without a car until the team can get a backup car ready and the race track is without a starting line for about 45 minutes. Bazemore was stopped when backing up from his burnout and pushed off the track. He will be the first car back out after repairing the starting line electronics. Right Lane: Whit Bazemore Runs 5.701/173.56, Now #6; Best prior run: 4.795/324.12, Was #6

After a 45 minute delay and Bazemore is up in smoke right right before the finish line and clicks it off.
 
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