Nhra Vs Nascar (2 Viewers)

[cephus]

If the suits want to model NHRA after NASCAR (championship chase)
then the payouts and purses should follow suit They are way behind
look at the year totals don't forget to compare as a % of straight line investment compared to investment of roundie round, I think we will be
flabber gasted

On the Sidelines in Bama

Fire up the Alky-Shine Fuzzy

 

[Nunz]

I don't think NHRA needs to be exactly like NASCAR. Our deal is unique, and should stay that way. However, the formula has to change. It has to make business sense for someone with the money and desire to invest in a race team to do so, meaning purses have to rise, costs have to be brought in line, and sponsorships need to be more plentiful.

 

[J.C.]

I'd be real curious to see a breakdown of income sources for a top-tier NASCAR team versus NHRA team. I assume that a majority of their income is broken down into three categories:

1) Sponsorship income
2) Race purses
3) T-shirt and other collectibles (don't underestimate the $ figure of this item, it can be very large)

My guess is that NHRA teams rely much more on 1 and 3 and that 2 is a drop-in-the bucket. Based on the purses I see posted for NHRA and NASCAR, it would appear that NASCAR teams derive a larger percentage of their team income from race purses than NHRA teams do?

 

[coyotedale]

The sales of shirts and other items is an area that really needs to change in the pro ranks.

As for the payouts, yes, they could go up, but again, the big teams are with a budget in the 3-4 mil range,,,, compare that to a Cup team,, and you are looking at 15-20 mil.

I'd say the thing to do is look at the ratio/percentage in winnings to annual budget.

If the winnings increase, so will the cost associated in capturing such a purse.

Think about it, at the end of a year, the best Cup team might have winnings in the 3-4 mil range,,, and they spent 20 mil to get it. What does the best fuel team win over a year, and what did they spend to get it?

Granted, it is hard for a pro series to be taken seriously if the purse isn't reflecting the nature of professional auto racing, but on the other hand, Im sure you will find it's all relative too.

 

[none]

If you're going to do this, compare what they spend to field the cars as well. Joe Gibbs runs three cars, John Force runs three cars. Want to compare those budgets?

Alan

 

[PJ]

Merchandise really needs to change or at least the access to it. Unless you go to a race its difficult to get things. Many teams have small e stores but not much. I know I've contacted drivers seeing if it were possible to buy items online and if anything is available its not much or not in kids sizes and such.

Nitromall has a website but the selection isn't there. A mass retail race website would be a great option, a one stop shop for all drag racing teams. Each team would then get the money from what they sold (- the website fee or whatever) . I would think that it would be a great source of income.

They could also expand beyond T shirts. As a kid we had drag racing beach towels and sheets. There is a whole uptapped market out there. Now if I only had the connections to make it happen.

 

[Alan]

I agree with PJ 110% on the availability of merchandise online. Force (naturally) has the best e-commerce store, Shoe, Snake, and Bernsteins is OK. But that is about the extent of it. I think you need to be able to get any driver's merchandise without attending the race. I buy my fill at Sears Point every year, but often I want something later, or during the offseason, and it's hard to find.

 

[Joker]

Force's Racestation is the best place to buy online. I always look at ebay auctions as well.

 

[coyotedale]

If you're going to do this, compare what they spend to field the cars as well. Joe Gibbs runs three cars, John Force runs three cars. Want to compare those budgets?

Alan

Alan, I'm assuming we are on the same page here. I don't know of a single race series where the pros compensation is anything close to what the annual operating budget is.

The Gibbs/Force comparison would be good. What does each organization have in total employee counts? For as much as the 'cup' teams win, the organizations are staggering in comparison to the pros in drag racing.

Maybe someday we'll see professional drag racing be on par with other professional race series in regards to payout. And when that day comes, I"m going to bet that the teams such as Force, Shoe, Black, etc, will be operating out of facilities that are nothing less than 200,000 sq ft, with excess of 100 personel, self contained in r&d (1/8th scale wind tunnel, composite mfg ability), and every other concievable requirement to compete at that level.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

If you're going to do this, compare what they spend to field the cars as well. Joe Gibbs runs three cars, John Force runs three cars. Want to compare those budgets?

Alan

Right on again Alan. This is"Apples & Oranges"??????

I'll trade someone my development property in Missouri for theirs in Southern California of equal size. Any takers??????

 

[HEMI6point1]

Personally, I don't want to see NHRA being like NASCAR where you have to bring a good set of binoculars to see your favorite drivers.

OTOH, one area that needs to be improved is the purses. Right now they just, well, suck. Only 40 grand for winning a race, when it cost twice that for going 8 rounds? That's pathetic!

 

[vegasnitro]

So we are going to beat this dead horse again?

Sprint/Nextel pays $75 Million per year to sponsor Cup Racing. (PowerADE pays between 3 and 4 million to sponsor NHRA)

ESPN/Fox pays BILLIONS of dollars into Cup's TV contract. (NHRA PAYS millions of dollars to be on TV)

There is no Cup race where they race in front of less than 100K fans, we get 170-180K in Vegas for our Cup race. (NHRA does not release attendance figures, but friends that work at the track in Vegas tell me they get between 45-50K fans for the WHOLE weekend)

They are in a completely different economic position than NHRA.

Do Pro payouts need to be increased, hell yes. But to base that on any type of comparison to NASCAR is a waste of everyone's time. NHRA (and everyone involved with NHRA) needs to worry about NHRA, not the roundy-rounders.

 

[BaldyLochs]

I still like the simple horsepower comparison best....

1 cylinder on Hillary Will's car has more horsepower than Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhart Jr.'s entire engine.

 

[cephus]

Chris, not beating a dead horse just conversation isn't this forum about
different ideas and thoughts? but like i said look at the %'ges and it seems
NHRA followed suit with the (chase) why not be original and 1st with the idea
if i'm not mistaken no increases in payouts since 1999 and would like to know the increases for the suits salaries during that time you know this is suppose to be a big family sport sharing the wealth( surely you gest )
By the way i'm a loyal stright liner!!

The Original Bama Boy

 

[__]

Merchandise really needs to change or at least the access to it. Unless you go to a race its difficult to get things. Many teams have small e stores but not much. I know I've contacted drivers seeing if it were possible to buy items online and if anything is available its not much or not in kids sizes and such.

Nitromall has a website but the selection isn't there. A mass retail race website would be a great option, a one stop shop for all drag racing teams. Each team would then get the money from what they sold (- the website fee or whatever) . I would think that it would be a great source of income.

They could also expand beyond T shirts. As a kid we had drag racing beach towels and sheets. There is a whole uptapped market out there. Now if I only had the connections to make it happen.

Agreed but thanks to stupid legislation, the Skoal Racing fans will only be able to buy their stuff at the track. That stinks.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Lot's of good thoughts and suggestions here, but until Drag Racing is popular enough to put 200,000 people in the stands for it's premier races (like NASCAR), there will never be enough money to raise the purses for class winners.

The reality is we'll never be able to draw like NASCAR. Our races take all day to finish...versus 2-3 hours for them, and we have multiple (confusing to novice viewers) winners...they have ONE. That's why we're not live on TV and why we have to pay for coverage. It's second tier programming...

I love drag racing, but it's just not a mainstream spectator sport. We're more of a participant sport...thus the smaller crowds.

 

[Nunz]

I've chimed in many times about the NHRA vs. NASCAR thing. IMO, here's the bottom line. Our sport is too unique to be like any roundy-round sport, so it can never be packaged the same way. As much as it is a big participant sport, I believe it can also be marketed as a huge spectator sport. The sights and sounds are like no other sport. Many maters have brought up great points about budgets and payouts, and it is ridiculous to compare NHRA to NASCAR. The ratio in NHRA may actually be a little better, I bet it costs upwards of 10x the Nextel Cup purse to capture it, where at 500k to win in a fuel class, you may spend 3Mil. These are not exact numbers, but guesses, just to make a point. Having said all that, and if we all agree that NHRA can't and shouldn't be like NASCAR, I would bet that we would also agree that no matter what, there is a lot of room for improvement in the economics of pro drag racing. Purses need to be higher, TV improved, both of which will help the sport get more respect and more sponsors. And most of all, while I don't know how, something has to be done to slow the escalation of racing budgets. It has to make business sense for someone to make the investment in equipment necessary to start a team, otherwise we'll never attract new pro owners. Look at David Powers. He has spent a ton of his own money, has two great cars, yet is struggling to find sponsorship. And he's connected. Same with Ken Black. I could go on, but I'm rambling...

 

[PJ]

The comparrison is really unfair. To say we need 200,000 people is impossible.

Nascar puts that many people around 1-2.5 mile tracks. We would need to squeeze those people into 1/4 mile. Beyond the obvious need for more stands then there is also the logistics nightmare of fastly adding that many people.

We are not a live tv sport and I have no problem with that. Same day coverage is where its at. With downtime between runs, the chances of oil downs and such its just not there. Package it into a 3 hour event and show it.

Yes it does stink to see the stands empty when the sportsmen come up and it can be confussing but when you have a full day of classes people are gonna have to pick some point in the day to eat, cruise the pits and show up at mater meetings Newbies may not get it but I've found that they like to have somebody explain the basics. If you're a vet consider yourself an ambassador to the fans around you. Although as much as I like sportsmen even I can't put a good spin on the damn coasting start that super comp/gas do now. It makes it painful to watch.


We need to get people to the track, start programs that get people to their local track, regardless of sanctioning body. Promote the sport as a whole. Our sport is one that you have to experience. Although with the ever increasing ticket prices it makes it very difficult to talk somebody into coming out to watch.


Charles, what legislation prevents skoal from selling their items off track?

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Another thing that makes NHRA tough to promote...and telecast...is the inconsistency in the schedule. We have off weeks (occassionaly), sometimes two weeks off, then back to back races. It really is crazy from a programming (broadcast) standpoint. Another one of NASCAR's TV advantages is that with a handful of exceptions, they race every week from mid-February through mid-November. It's all about creating consistency. There will never be prime time broadcasts with the race schedule as it is....

 

[BaldyLochs]

I think the merchadising should be seperate, and free from NHRA Prop Racing - unless a driver/team is selling items with the NHRA or Powerade logo - and then those should be available both in the NitroMall at the tracks and online.
Individual team merchandising I think is the most untapped market out there. All the "big" teams should have online stores in addition to thier track trailers, because believe it or not there are some poor souls who can't or don't go to see the races in person. The sponsors should be willing to make thier logos & artwork readily available and easy to get through the joint-marketing, trademark red tape as well. There's other issues too, including opening the doors for fakes and scam artists. Plus there's cost & headaches with changing colors, schemes each year, and running a warehouse/merchandising program. If these issues could be addressed across the board I think alot more drag racing merchandise would be selling.