NHRA Tech says to DSR Top Fuelers "Take It Off"!

[Nick Name]

There are two major problems that keep the status quo in place and it would be hard to bust it.

One is that virtually all of the pros have sponson contracts that state "we will be at this event, that event, etc" They agreed to that when they took the sponsors money. That is why they could never boycott and NHRA knows this.

Second, the fact that NHRA sanctions race tracks. This prevents the better tracks from allowing IHRA or some new organization to come in, etc. Until some kind of lawsuit forces them to sanction only events, and not race tracks. No competitors can ever run the good tracks.

The race track here where my shop is has everyone race here. Any organization can come in rent the track, hold their event, then they are gone, and a month later their competitor comes in and has their event.

And as for the IHRA "circus" , You owe it to your self to attend one of those events and see for yourself if it is not some of the most fun you have ever had at a drag race.

 

[MHayes]

Let me clue you in to a little piece of knowledge.
If Don Schumacher is pissed off enough to walk away, he will. To think that "money" is what a man in his position covets is a little off base.
It's about respect.

I'll give you the respect part, but if you think success doesn't drive the man, you are sadly mistaken!

 

[George.]

I'll give you the respect part, but if you think success doesn't drive the man, you are sadly mistaken!

Success? Please.
You sound like a kid. After years in business, there comes a point where you simply do not have to take crap like that.

The man has had more business and track success that what most men dream of. He has nothing more to prove, and could walk away today with a shelf full of Championship trophys..

 

[MHayes]

The man is more business successful that what most men dream of.

Thus my comment genius!

As for the child comment, look in the mirror (or just read your own posts)!

 

[George.]

Thus my comment genius!

As for the child comment, look in the mirror (or just read your own posts)!

Right.
Mike, maybe you are willing to openly and proudly kiss someone's butt while giving them 20 minutes to draw a crowd for a trophy, but some don't and most won't.

 

[MHayes]

Right.
Mike, maybe you are willing to openly and proudly kiss someone's butt while giving them 20 minutes to draw a crowd for a trophy, but I bet some won't and most don't.

You edit your posts quicker than you can write them George. As for the above comment, I really have no earthly idea what you are talking about?????

 

[George.]

You edit your posts quicker than you can write them George. As for the above comment, I really have no earthly idea what you are talking about?????

Ofcourse you don't understand.
If you think the drive for competition is what allows any man to take a direct shot like that, then I guess we think differently.

Once you have reached a certain amount of success, the harder it is to down a $hit sandwich.

 

[Rat]

No one says it better than Lee Beard, "When I rolled out that Firebird at the U.S. Nationals (2001) it had that multi-section rear wing on it that nobody had ever seen before, and a lot of other stuff,” Beard said. “It was approved by NHRA and the first full run down the track with it we ran the quickest and fastest speeds with it and everybody tried to get it outlawed even though it had already been approved. After that everybody just copied it and that’s what they race with today, that same three-section rear-wing on a Funny Car.

I just do understand why if you think something is a performance advantage as so simple as that, that you could buy a sheet of aluminum for $50 and form it around the roll cage and maybe ending up having $250 in the part, why you would you make such a big deal out of it? Why wouldn’t you just go copy it? I do not get it. All the other racers looked at it. When we were in the staging lanes, it wasn’t like they (the shrouds) were kept covered. There are pictures all over the internet of it. Anybody had access to it.”

The words alone should be enough to lift the ban. NHRA gets a Grade A stupid rating for me on this issue because how is Lee wrong? Anyone had access to copy and develop their own. It's not like a "secret part" it's said most teams have.

 

[Just Paul]

No one says it better than Lee Beard, "When I rolled out that Firebird at the U.S. Nationals (2001) it had that multi-section rear wing on it that nobody had ever seen before, and a lot of other stuff,” Beard said. “It was approved by NHRA and the first full run down the track with it we ran the quickest and fastest speeds with it and everybody tried to get it outlawed even though it had already been approved. After that everybody just copied it and that’s what they race with today, that same three-section rear-wing on a Funny Car.

I just do understand why if you think something is a performance advantage as so simple as that, that you could buy a sheet of aluminum for $50 and form it around the roll cage and maybe ending up having $250 in the part, why you would you make such a big deal out of it? Why wouldn’t you just go copy it? I do not get it. All the other racers looked at it. When we were in the staging lanes, it wasn’t like they (the shrouds) were kept covered. There are pictures all over the internet of it. Anybody had access to it.”

The words alone should be enough to lift the ban. NHRA gets a Grade A stupid rating for me on this issue because how is Lee wrong? Anyone had access to copy and develop their own. It's not like a "secret part" it's said most teams have.

Ha- See post #115.

 

[Rat]

yea. I been trying to follow this thread lol. It exploded with posts every 1-3 days i get on i am about 4 pages behind like now.

 

[Tony]

No Tony that's "your opinion", it is a fact for as long as I can remember, but fuelgate is what really set it on its end. Graham Light needs to get his nose out of the air and quit talking like he is far superior to all. IHRA is coming and NHRA better take light. (Not Graham Light). There are several tracks in the southwest that have already switched to IHRA, the threat from them may be small now, but it is there, they will take the customers that NHRA is losing.

Rick

Rick, the IHRA is at best AA minor league baseball as compared to the NHRA being Major League Baseball. The IHRA will never, ever, catch the NHRA in terms of prestige and popularity.

 

[Tony]

No one says it better than Lee Beard, "When I rolled out that Firebird at the U.S. Nationals (2001) it had that multi-section rear wing on it that nobody had ever seen before, and a lot of other stuff,” Beard said. “It was approved by NHRA and the first full run down the track with it we ran the quickest and fastest speeds with it and everybody tried to get it outlawed even though it had already been approved. After that everybody just copied it and that’s what they race with today, that same three-section rear-wing on a Funny Car.

I just do understand why if you think something is a performance advantage as so simple as that, that you could buy a sheet of aluminum for $50 and form it around the roll cage and maybe ending up having $250 in the part, why you would you make such a big deal out of it? Why wouldn’t you just go copy it? I do not get it. All the other racers looked at it. When we were in the staging lanes, it wasn’t like they (the shrouds) were kept covered. There are pictures all over the internet of it. Anybody had access to it.”

The words alone should be enough to lift the ban. NHRA gets a Grade A stupid rating for me on this issue because how is Lee wrong? Anyone had access to copy and develop their own. It's not like a "secret part" it's said most teams have.

Lee Beard just made a great case for REMOVING the shrouds:
If the other Top Fuel competitors thought the shroud gave the DSR cars a performance advantage, doesn't everyone agree that the other racers would have copied the shroud in some form?
DSR presented the shroud to the NHRA as a SAFETY devise. The NHRA approved the shroud as a SAFETY devise without testing the shroud, taking the word of DSR that they are trying to improve the SAFETY of their drivers. This to me shows that the NHRA listens to DSR, and RESPECTS their opinion.
The shroud was obviously ineffective during Antron Brown's fire, so the shroud should be removed pending testing and (re)approval as a SAFETY devise. Any perceived performance gains are a moot point, because as Lee Beard said: "nobody copied it."

 

[twostep]

The shroud was obviously ineffective during Antron Brown's fire

Objection, Your Honor. Conjecture on the part of the plaintiff.

 

[TR]

Rick, the IHRA is at best AA minor league baseball as compared to the NHRA being Major League Baseball. The IHRA will never, ever, catch the NHRA in terms of prestige and popularity.

Tony, I don't think I ever said that IHRA would overtake NHRA, it can survive with less customers simply because it is smaller, NHRA can't, it needs massive revenue to stay afloat and pay those high up dummies their pay etc. If you don't think that IHRA in some fashion may take customers (fans etc.) from NHRA then you must have your nose high in the air like Graham Light and just dismiss IHRA as a bunch of peasants. As stated from someone, an empty seat doesn't buy a hot dog. NHRA will survive by raising it's prices on everything, but I think they realize they need to change as is evident by allowing kids under 12 free entry with an adult for the world finals. Anybody that thinks there is nothing wrong with the upper management from NHRA, is just in the tank for them. Just my 2 cents.

Rick

 

[Just Paul]

I think looking at just one example (Antron's fire) and saying it does not work is a mistake. I never heard claims this was going to be 100% a fireproof solution, it was there to help, and reduce.

The only way to say one way or the other would be to duplicate Antrons run without the shroud and see where the fire is or how long it lasts, or what his suit looked like afterwords. That's the only way to see if there is an improvement. Of course, that is an impossibe thing to replicate exactly.

I seem to remember Cory Mac having a fire at Indy a couple years back and it got in the cockpit 10X worse then Antrons.

How many funny cars have we seen catch fire with the fireproof coating on the inside. Does it help? I think it does. Do the cars still catch fire even with this protection? Yes.

 

[n/a]

I think looking at just one example (Antron's fire) and saying it does not work is a mistake.

X2, Thank you.

 

[Draw 3D]

I think looking at just one example (Antron's fire) and saying it does not work is a mistake.

Ok, so the next logical questions are:

• How many failures does it take to decide if a device "does not work"?

• Should the same multiple failures be applied for all new "safety" devices also?

Just asking...

 

[onfire]

Saw this reading an article on enclosed cockpits in Indy Car:


Sicking, the University of Nebraska engineer who was instrumental in the development and implementation of the SAFER barrier, also believes an enclosed cockpit might have made a difference. He thinks adding it is worth considering.

"It is feasible, but it's not something you could do overnight," Sicking said. "It certainly would have a chance of reducing fatalities. And it's something the NHRA should do as well [for Top Fuel dragsters]."

 

[Just Paul]

Ok, so the next logical questions are:

• How many failures does it take to decide if a device "does not work"?

• Should the same multiple failures be applied for all new "safety" devices also?

Just asking...

I don't know that it failed? Maybe it helped? I don't think DSR ever said this was going to be a 100% cure.

I think anything that is meant to help is fine, and based on a one time deal with Antron I don't know if we can draw a conclusion that it failed so bad it must be removed at once. It could have been worse without it.

Just as we can't prove that it does not work in the event of a fire (based on one pass), we can't prove that the car benifits from it and makes it run any better (Based on over 100 passes). I don't get what the big deal is with them running it.

If anything it looks cool, and is a good spot for extra sponsor decals.

 

[nick name]

In all these messages, there are a couple of statements that really go to the heart of the matter:

... And any engineer that states they might be dangerous is full of poppycock, IMO.

I absolutely agree. In any matter of significance, I cannot believe a trained aerodynamicist would offer any useful data after simply LOOKING at an area. There are many ways to get significant information, but that ain't one of them. Acting on such an opinion (as the NHRA seems to have done) serves no one.

A few years back, teams were pretty excited about changing from the Cutlass to the Camaro/Firebird body. Makes sense, right? It does if you're just looking at both cars but the wind tunnel numbers were significantly better for the Cutlass. So much for visual aerodynamics. I'm getting a bit of deja vu about "optical data" and Steve Johnson can tell us how that came out.

From the accounts I have seen, this was not a "normal" (ok how normal can an 8000hp exploding fireball be) fire. There was a fuel line rupture that had fuel spraying onto or at least towards the cockpit.

If that is not the norm, then perhaps the shroud did work as intended but this was an abnormal occurrence which created these circumstances.

Excellent point. That shroud isn't going to be able to charge the area with any fraction of the pressure needed to withstand a high psi burst into it. But even the slight amount of its pressurization would oppose any flames in an area near it. Many factories are set up this way to keep dust and debris out; open a door and you'll feel a breeze blowing out. I think the previous poster writing that positive pressure is bad for a fire was thinking of the type of positive pressure a broken fuel line produces. It's not the same thing at all.