No because the original vin # would not be on the block. Cheverolet stated putting vin #'s on engines before Olds did but not sure when. Another thing you get into with originality is date codes on various parts. It gets really anal with rare cars.
Nitromater
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Muscle cars vs pony cars?
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
none
Nitro Member
Appreciate the information, that's why I was asking. When I was told that a date code 68 head would be considered "Original" on my 67 car as a warrenty replacement. (Again, I'm not saying that is gospel, just what I was told at the time)
Isn't that number stamped in? So could a replacement just be stamped with the original number? Because each individual block wasn't cast with a different number. Right?
Interesting discussion.
Alan
Isn't that number stamped in? So could a replacement just be stamped with the original number? Because each individual block wasn't cast with a different number. Right?
Interesting discussion.
Alan
z28
Nitro Member
usually the owner will or should reveal that. the block can be traced back as a genuine replacement by GM, Ford, etc. usually doesn't have much effect in the pricing I've seen.
Alan, that reminded to of a guy in my neighborhood had a 69 Z28. He grinaded two engines, but his uncle owned the dealership. So I imagine he got a better treatment than Joe Blow.
But that would've brought into the scenario you mentioned.
Wouldn't a pony car with a 428 be a horse car?
The vin # stamping on engines is very hard to duplicate. Engine restamping is very much frowned upon and it has caused a lot of grief in the muscle car world. It can be done and when restamps are caught it can and will cause the seller legal issues. Chevy' restamping is the worst. The vin# is stamped on the deck on a pad right in front of the right hand cylinder head. When the deck a Chevy block you lose the OEM vin #. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using replacement parts but it hurts the value of a matching number correct car.
ironpony
Nitro Member
There are more 69 Z28's registered right now than were originally built.
I dunno if I'd want a real, numbers matching car. Pay 1/2 million for a Hemi and never drive it, etc. If I had the $$ to buy something, I'd want it updated w modern engine, steering, disc brakes, all that. Resto-mod is what you'd call it, I guess. I used to really like Fords. Now I like older cars, don't care if it's Mopar or GM or Studebaker. Or maybe a '50 Chevy pick up with a modern day Camaro V6 engine. Plenty of power for a daily driver.
M Jones
Nitro Member
Hope to have my 1965 f-100 running this fall ( 2005 Shelby Gt 500 5.4 short block, trickflow heads, Whipple supercharger, electronic fuel injection, 5 speed, power rack and pinion steering, power brakes ) I wouldn’t trade it for anything, all the fun of driving old iron with modern technology, hope you find your favorite hot rod too
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
In the restoration world, the answer is , “sort of”. A numbers matching car will always bring the most money. From there it’s a sliding scale. A replacement engine has to have either a dealer invoice dated during the warranty replacement, a “date coded block, or a correct for the year engine. The values reflect just how much effort was put into getting the right proof or parts . My Packard Caribbean customer had UPS drop his original engine on it’s nose and broke all the main webs inside, so he procured a correct engine for his 1956. When it was decked it lost any stampings that the factory engraved on the block. So it’s a correct 374 dual quad V8 in every way except for one fortunate addition. The crankshaft turned out to be a super rare warranty replacement forged unit! Apparently it was in the dealership back in 56-57 needing a crank. Since Studebaker bought Packard there were new ways of running things and forged cranks was one of them…
But here’s the thing with Mopars… the VIN number of the car is stamped on the oil pan rail, so the replacement won’t have that gold standard of identification
* edit- I found out today that the Packard’s engine didn’t have any identification marks on it lost to machining… it was a warranty engine put in by a Studebaker dealer and thus had the rare forged crank since it was first assembled . The ID pad was always blank.
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65 Goatboy
Nitro Member
Mike you are correct, there is no vin on the engine but it does have a letter and six numbers stamped on a machined pad at the front of the right cyl. head. The first letter indentifies the engine as a correct 65 442 400 ci. The next six numbers are a production sequence date code just like the body has. The Fisher Body number plate or (protecto-plate) has a 12 digit number and one letter, the first seven identify division, series, engine cyl's, body type , year, and assy. plant and the last six numbers are a plant sequential production number or date code. So the car could actually be numbers matching if the engine date code is before the Fisher Body date code the way I understand it. The book I have deciphers everything except the two six digit date codes. Don't really care I need to get the car running again, ordering a quality reman. carb this week. I'm in my late 60's so would like to get that big 345 hp 400 in there before it's too late!
none
Nitro Member
If you have the original carb, you should have it rebuilt. A Stock/Super Stock carb guy would be the one I'd call. If you need a contact, I'll be happy to share one or two. Unless you're just going to swap it out for a Holley or AFB.
Alan
That is great advise because if he does have the correct 65 442 4 jet Rochester carburetor they are very hard to find. He said he was buying a reman and most remans are not worth it. The OEM carb can be restored to look and function as new.
ch streetcars
Nitro Member
I have quit telling people that they have a fake Z, unless they are trying to sell it as such. I am 3rd owner of an X33 (Z-28 with RS package) The second owner bought it in 73, and the original 302 was long blown up. After nine 69s I feel comfortable spotting a fake, but I would be worried about buying a 66 or 67 427 Vette or a 70 Chevelle SS. Lots of re-stamps and fakes out there. I know technically the definition of pony car, but my Camaro's and Cuda's have always been referred to as muscle cars.
Absolutely agree.
65 Goatboy
Nitro Member
Going back to my original post the 65 400 ci engine I bought after buying the car is sitting on the floor of my pole barn, the 4 jet Rochester is missing. The car has a early 70's Olds 350 engine with a Quadrajet installed by the previous owner. The car is currently not running because the accelerator pump in the Quadrajet went bad and instead of just replacing the pump I decided to go through the carb. It is in pieces clean and ready to go back together. Even though I worked my whole life as an auto tech rebuilding many carbs (I'm 67) I just don't have the time to spend on it right now but I have the $$ to buy a quality reman. Quadrajet and get the damn thing running after sitting for 5 years. Thanks for the offer Alan, if I ever get the big engine back in I'll be looking for that 4 jet Rochester.
I missed the part about the original carb being missing, my bad.
For me anyway, the difference between a pony car and a muscle car depends on the back seat.
A pony car’s back seat is too small for full grown adults to comfortably sit on for more than a few minutes.
A muscle car’s back seat allow adults to ride without being jammed in like sardines.
My aforementioned ‘72 Duster 340’s back seat would seat two adults and a kid with no problem. Heck, the trunk was big enough to hold five mounted wheels and tires. I know, because I did it more than once.
But, this thread brings back a couple of lines from the Bob Seger song, “The Horizontal Bop.”
“The pony cars are cruising Woodward Avenue. Go and try to pass them, they’ll smoke you if you do.”
A pony car’s back seat is too small for full grown adults to comfortably sit on for more than a few minutes.
A muscle car’s back seat allow adults to ride without being jammed in like sardines.
My aforementioned ‘72 Duster 340’s back seat would seat two adults and a kid with no problem. Heck, the trunk was big enough to hold five mounted wheels and tires. I know, because I did it more than once.
But, this thread brings back a couple of lines from the Bob Seger song, “The Horizontal Bop.”
“The pony cars are cruising Woodward Avenue. Go and try to pass them, they’ll smoke you if you do.”
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