Hydrazine and Nitro (2 Viewers)

[vegasnitro]

In response to Hydrazine or Nitrous being apart of Prudhomme's 5.63, I asked the Snake about it at the Reunion this year. He told me it was a vane-style(?) fuel pump at that it really leaned out the mixture in the middle of the track but cooked the motor by the finish line. His nitrous bottle was there for diversion purposes. If you can watch the 82 Cajun Nationals TV coverage and it shows at least Kenny Bernstein and Billy Meyer using nitrous with not nearly the E.T. results. Here's an old article on it:

Drag Racing Online

As for green flames in the 1990's, I have a home video of a U.S. Nationals qualifying session where Dave McClelland observes some coming from a Nitro car (I forget if it where TF or FC). Don Garlits was co-commentating and played it off as a Winston Vision phenomenon

I don't believe using nitrous in a nitro motor was against the rules until recently (last ten years or so). Hydrazine/Benzene has ALWAYS been against the rules.

And again, other than this article, I am not able to find any other link between Hydrazine as a racing fuel and green flames, whereas EVERY article relating to Benzene as a racing fuel mentions green header flames. Most articles relating to Hydrazine mentions the dramatic change in engine note as a dead giveaway that someone is using it.

 

[Bullet]

I don't believe using nitrous in a nitro motor was against the rules until recently (last ten years or so).

Chris, I think N2O was prohibited in Top Fuel and Funny Car not long after Prudhomme's 5.63. No later than '83-'84 if my memory server me correctly.

I am pretty sure that Pro Stock never had the "no nitrous" rule until the early-mid 90's.

 

[Nitrohelper]

... Hydrazine/Benzene has ALWAYS been against the rules... Benzene as a racing fuel mentions green header flames....

Always is a long time , it wasn't against the rules in the 50s& 60s... I ran up to 5% benzine in my top fuel car in the 60s and 70s, and ran several different chemicals that I tested for Angus in the late 80s... never had green flames except from a burned copper head gasket...
NHRA didn't rule Nitro & methanol only until they limited percentage...

 

[Iron Mike]

It's widely rumored that Prudhomme's incredible 5.63 at the 1982 Indy nationals was either nitrous or hydrazine-aided. Only the Snake knows for sure. [/QUOTE]

I asked a guy at NOS about the Snake car. All he said was what do you think would happen if you tried to put 500psi of nitrous into a fuel pump. It would blow all the fuel out of it. It wouldn't run.
Mike

 

[Iron Mike]

??? and Epler?

I have Eplers old body, something sure messed up the right side, right after that 300MPH pass!!!
Mike

 

[twostep]

I asked a guy at NOS about the Snake car. All he said was what do you think would happen if you tried to put 500psi of nitrous into a fuel pump. It would blow all the fuel out of it. It wouldn't run.

Les (post above) says Snake claims he wasn't actually running nitrous, but this comment is confusing my simple mind just a bit. Why would you run 500 PSI of nitrous through a fuel pump in the first place?

 

[MK]

OK this will be a real buzz kill...
1. You don't have the 300 MPH body. Nobody has it because we burnt the car to the ground on the next run. The block split in half and that was the end of that. We ran the remainder of the season with an older Olds body we bought from Danny Townsend that he had on his Alky F/C we took the spoiler off the burnt body and ran 297+ at Dallas two weeks later and won the World Finals at Pomona after that. (So much for aero)

2. Obviously I worked for Prudhomme for several years, not when he ran 5.63 @ Indy but I promise you the nitrous was a decoy. The .63 was a product of a great fuel system (Pete Jackson) and getting the clutch right. Other racers tried to run the nitrous straight into the main fuel line like it was on Snake's car. To keep the story short it didn't work. I worked with Bill Schultz and he tried it and it was disastrous. It was a great story and a lesson in why you shouldn't believe everything you see.

 

[Treeshaker]

OK this will be a real buzz kill...
1. You don't have the 300 MPH body. Nobody has it because we burnt the car to the ground on the next run. The block split in half and that was the end of that. We ran the remainder of the season with an older Olds body we bought from Danny Townsend that he had on his Alky F/C we took the spoiler off the burnt body and ran 297+ at Dallas two weeks later and won the World Finals at Pomona after that. (So much for aero)

2. Obviously I worked for Prudhomme for several years, not when he ran 5.63 @ Indy but I promise you the nitrous was a decoy. The .63 was a product of a great fuel system (Pete Jackson) and getting the clutch right. Other racers tried to run the nitrous straight into the main fuel line like it was on Snake's car. To keep the story short it didn't work. I worked with Bill Schultz and he tried it and it was disastrous. It was a great story and a lesson in why you shouldn't believe everything you see.

But Mike - are you saying the guy that sold that body wasn't telling the truth? He swore it was the 300 mph body and .......

And then you are saying that racers will install decoys on their cars and tell their competitors a story to throw them off? But there were pictures..... and we read ...... and he said ............ the press release ...........

 

[Nunz]

That's some funny shiznit Virgil!

 

[Huge]

WOW!! it sure is quiet around here, now you could hear a pin drop.

 

[Nitrohelper]

... install decoys on their cars and tell their competitors a story to throw them off...

Like a green towel on the throttle pedal , so people didn't look at the idle system for reaction times...

 

[vegasnitro]

Always is a long time , it wasn't against the rules in the 50s& 60s... I ran up to 5% benzine in my top fuel car in the 60s and 70s, and ran several different chemicals that I tested for Angus in the late 80s... never had green flames except from a burned copper head gasket...
NHRA didn't rule Nitro & methanol only until they limited percentage...

Very cool Jerry ... good information along the lines of what I was looking for.

 

[Dave]

OK this will be a real buzz kill...
1. You don't have the 300 MPH body. Nobody has it because we burnt the car to the ground on the next run. The block split in half and that was the end of that. We ran the remainder of the season with an older Olds body we bought from Danny Townsend that he had on his Alky F/C we took the spoiler off the burnt body and ran 297+ at Dallas two weeks later and won the World Finals at Pomona after that. (So much for aero)

2. Obviously I worked for Prudhomme for several years, not when he ran 5.63 @ Indy but I promise you the nitrous was a decoy. The .63 was a product of a great fuel system (Pete Jackson) and getting the clutch right. Other racers tried to run the nitrous straight into the main fuel line like it was on Snake's car. To keep the story short it didn't work. I worked with Bill Schultz and he tried it and it was disastrous. It was a great story and a lesson in why you shouldn't believe everything you see.

Thanks, beat me to it! That body got burned up really bad. Steve Evans was going to use it during the piece for the tv show talking about how a head wind may have helped the 300mph spped. Instead he used John Force's car that was shown on screen during the single. I remember poor Al Hofmann not being able to back up from the burnout at the Winston Finals.

I didn't think they were correct talking about a car with funny header flames running at night, then another car running 300 breaking the mark with funny flames. Jim ran 300 in the first round sunday morning. No header flames in sight.

 

[none]

But Mike - are you saying the guy that sold that body wasn't telling the truth? He swore it was the 300 mph body and .......

And then you are saying that racers will install decoys on their cars and tell their competitors a story to throw them off? But there were pictures..... and we read ...... and he said ............ the press release ...........

Virgil,
I think when it comes to decoys on a race car Garlits pretty much wrote the book!!

 

[RAPID]

Mike, Good to see you here.

Virgil,

Rapid

 

[Jeff]

Threads like this are why this is nearly a daily routine for me. Very cool stuff.

 

[.]

I just read this link and this thread popped into my head.

Newly Discovered Molecule Will Make Rocket Fuel Super Efficient

 

[funnycarguy]

Thank you Mike for joining and posting here. Virgil, always great hearing from you. Just love hearing the facts......
Dale

 

[Kansas Stan]

Dave W is absolutely correct. 300 was broken in first round at Topeka. Epler ran Mineo. Kloeber was the tuner. I also have a real hard time believing match racers would be running such volatile fuel. What's to be gained other than windowed blocks. The pay's all the same. as far as the "deception" thing with the towel on the throttle, etc. I also thought when nitro went to 90 percent and Benstein then said NHRA should cut it back to 85, perhaps the Bud crew was already making 85 work and wanted NHRA to officially kick the rest of the teams down the steps and make them find the combo while Budweiser kicked ass in the interim.

 

[robslob]

A little off track here: The F16 fighter has a emergency generator powered by hydrazine. If for any reason the pilot fired that puppy off, the only way to approach the aircraft was in full chem gear because hydrazine is a severe carcinogen. I never had to do this for real, but we had to pratice safeing the weapons in full chem gear. I wonder to this day if the cause some of the old racers who died from lung cancer could be related to breathing hydrazine fumes...