Help with a labor union issue (1 Viewer)

[mike cummings]

Recently a campaign was started where I work to get us to join a union. This started by 2 employees circulating cards to the rest of the department and we were told that signing the cards does not commit us to join the union, but merely expresses interest in the union and will allow them to come on property to give their dog and pony show after which there will be an election in which we could then vote up or down to join a union or reject them.

I have always been anti-union but signed a card in the spirit of approaching this with an open mind and with the understanding that we would have a formal election that would decide if we went union or not. The majority of the department also signed the cards with this understanding as well.

Last week a notice was posted that there would be a union meeting that Friday (7/6/07) on property and that we were all encouraged to attend. We all thought this was the dog and pony show but when the meeting started, 3 individuals introduced themselves as our contacts in our new union. We were told that a 3rd party neutral arbitrator confirmed that the union received a majority of cards back and that as a result we had voted the union in. Nearly everyone in the meeting expressed concern and outrage that we were lied to about the cards, but the union guys shrugged and said that the card process was "water over the dam" and that like it or not they were now representing us.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with these kinds of union tactics and know how we can fight back to demand a fair and up front election rather than rely on this sneaky and under handed deceptive tactic that we were victim to?

 

[Jenn]

Recently a campaign was started where I work to get us to join a union. This started by 2 employees circulating cards to the rest of the department and we were told that signing the cards does not commit us to join the union, but merely expresses interest in the union and will allow them to come on property to give their dog and pony show after which there will be an election in which we could then vote up or down to join a union or reject them.

I have always been anti-union but signed a card in the spirit of approaching this with an open mind and with the understanding that we would have a formal election that would decide if we went union or not. The majority of the department also signed the cards with this understanding as well.

Last week a notice was posted that there would be a union meeting that Friday (7/6/07) on property and that we were all encouraged to attend. We all thought this was the dog and pony show but when the meeting started, 3 individuals introduced themselves as our contacts in our new union. We were told that a 3rd party neutral arbitrator confirmed that the union received a majority of cards back and that as a result we had voted the union in. Nearly everyone in the meeting expressed concern and outrage that we were lied to about the cards, but the union guys shrugged and said that the card process was "water over the dam" and that like it or not they were now representing us.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with these kinds of union tactics and know how we can fight back to demand a fair and up front election rather than rely on this sneaky and under handed deceptive tactic that we were victim to?

Contact the LRB (Labor Relations Board) for your state. They are in charge of monitoring those sorts of things.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Surely this can't be legally upheld since a majority of how many people are willing to stand up and say they were lied to? I'm thinking class action lawsuit against that union with punitive damages. How ironic is it that they do that when they come in pretending to want to make your work experience fit their definition of "right"?

I'll be in favor of unions when the laws are equally fair for companies. If you get together in a union and agree on the wage you're going to demand, it's "collective bargaining." If companies do the exact same thing, it's "price fixing."

Do you need a reason in order to be allowed to quit your job? Even if you do it at such a time as to jeapordize the company with it's customer? But, if the company wants to quit you? Ha!

I'm amazed at how nastily (a word? LOL) people will talk about a company while they're out carrrying picket signs, but are willing to go back and work for that nasty company as soon as their demands are met. I've been cursed at while crossing picket lines, then have the same people try to act like nothing happened when strikes were over.

On the other side, my girlfriend's brother tried to get people at his workplace together to go in and demand higher wages. Nobody would go with him. He goes in on his own and, after some much heated debating (including showing them what they could get elsewhere, and with the company trying to act like matching social security was a BENEFIT! LOL), the company gave in. The ridiculous part is that they gave EVERYONE there the same raise!

 

[cstarns]

Check your PMs

 

[Ted]

Has there been any talk about what kind of wage increase this union can get for you? Years ago a shop in my hometown went union (after a bitter fight) and after all was said and done, workers only netted an extra twenty dollars a week!
Please keep us posted how this unfolds if you are able. It could be an interesting story.

 

[sharkman]

Mike, Just simply don't join the union, you're not required to pay dues and be a member if you choose not to. I do where I work but I don't have to.

 

[twok4hd]

Kenny, I don't think it is like that in all states. Texas is a right to work state, therefore you are not required to join a union if you're are hourly and your place of work has one. The thing that sucks is the union still has your balls in a vise.

 

[murdock]

A lot of times what a union has to offer goes beyond a simple wage increase. Health insurance and a pension plan are the first things that come to my mind. Our union has a health insurance plan that is as good as any that I have heard of. $300.00 per year per person/$600.00 per year family deductable with nearly full coverage after meeting the deductable. Presciption plan that pays, for example, over $1900.00 for one prescption for my wife for a 90 day supply. She pays $40.00. Pension plan is approaching $100.00 per year for each year of service at retirement. Plus an annuity plan. And life insurance. The list goes on. And our wages aren't too bad, either.

Murdock.

 

[marlin]

Muurdock..a union man ..who would've thought that ??? LOL ..How's it going? From what I gather , you didn't make it to Thunder Valley ? I could not pull it off...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Mike,
Welcome to the world of organized labor! To each his own but for me, I'd rather be able to out-work the guy next to me and receive more income for it. I'm not the same as anyone else in the world but for the time I spent in the Bricklayer's Union here in Phoenix, they tried to convince me to sit down, shut up, and just ride the bus like a good little boy. I was not special-nor was anyone else, hence the same salary/wage for everyone across the board.
When I attended the "big meeting" about the use of labor saving devices and suggested we would need them to compete with the non-union companies, I was run out of the hall, threatened along with threats to my family and their safety. Ultimately their decision, that evening eventually diminished their ranks to 1/5 of the previous membership despite 400% growth in the masonry work force here in the Valley during that time. Talk about stupidity shooting itself in the foot?

I started my own company shortly thereafter at age 22 and haven't looked back since. I would rather starve than work within a labor union ever again but I also understand that there are a great deal of folks who believe the exact opposite, and I respect their opinion. I just wanted to share mine.

 

[TJ]

The union thing is a touchy subject and is different in all vocations....
I was around the film industry's unions along time and they were very successful on both ends, making the worker and the employer very happy...The film (labor) industry's union ask for 2% of your wage and a promise that you never strike and w/ the average person on a local location set making 100k a year and the prodcer(s) making triple that everyone is happy....And the retirement/health is solid....And most of the higher ups began in those unions so they support them...
And the quality and the end results fill the movie theaters consistently...
I think the unions that fail are because of the members and the union leaders are not bargaining together and everyone being on the same page of life...You can't win every battle but pick and choose the important ones....
Just my take...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Mike, the method of enrollment into their ranks should tell you a lot about their organization.

 

[mike cummings]

an update on the situation.

We have gotten the NLRB to agree to open a case against the union as well as our employer which for the time being is halting the process.

The case against the union is for their deceptive, unfair and non secret way this was "voted" on. The case against our employer is because they agreed (reluctantly, but primarily to avoid any bad press the union would have put out. They are a global company and while I don't want to say the name of the company, it is often referred to as the "Happiest place on Earth") to accept the results of the card count as valid.

In addition I have found out thru a website hosted by the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation that the Supreme Court has upheld the rights f a person who signed a card to withdraw the card from union. I have sent in a letter of recision to the union via certified mail/return receipt on Monday and am waiting to see what the union has to say about it.

The majority of workers in the department are pushing to get this sham card count "election" nullified and then have an open, honest and anonymous election to see if we want to join the union. With the bad taste the union put in our mouths because of their deceptive tactics and brash attitude it is highly unlikely that the union will prevail. While there are a small number of department members who favor the union, the non union people and fence sitters are not in favor of any association with this union.

In California if the majority of a department has voted a union in, then the all of the employees in that department have to join the union or quit. You can't chose to be a non member in a union shop. So much for the so called "Employee Free Choice Act"

As for salary increases, the union guys mentioned that even though we would be paying dues to them, with the increases that they might be able to negotiate into the contract, we should be salary neutral or in other wards, we wouldn't have any additional out of pocket expense for the dues, but we wouldn't see any net gain in our paycheck because the dues would eat up any salary gain.

Bobby, I agree with your thinking about how a union doesn't encourage individual accomplishment. In my opinion, it dumbs the entire group down to the lowest common demoninator and rewards based on time in service rather than on merit.

The biggest obstacle in our department is we have a very unique job. We are pyrotechnicians (fireworks guys) who are licensed by the state and regulated by BATF. We do shows outside this job and are used to being in the top alpha dog in charge and not open to letting some union guy (who isn't a pyro and has no clue about how to do the job safely) telling us how we have to get the job done, who we need to use to get the job done, when to take a break, etc.

Another thing that upset the members in the department is the timing the union used to do the card count and have the "welcome to the union" meeting. We were given cards back in January of this year. The union chose to have the card count and hold the meeting on the week of July 4th, which is the busiest time of the year for a pyrotechnician. Many of us were busy working at the park as well as coordinating and conducting outside shows on the 4th of July (I spent all day on July 2 and 3rd setting up and firing a show for a local city and then did a 13 hour day at the park on July 4th) and we were pretty worn out by the time they brought this up. I feel they used this hectic time of the year in the hopes that we would be so exhausted by our busy schedule that we would just blindly accept the union and be done with it. Fortunately we are fighting back and it looks like we have a good chance of keeping them out of our department. It is not over yet but the situation looks alot less bleak than it did last week.

Thanks to all for the input and encouragement.

 

[mike cummings]

Mike, the method of enrollment into their ranks should tell you a lot about their organization.

it speaks volumes....

 

[murdock]

Muurdock..a union man ..who would've thought that ??? LOL ..How's it going? From what I gather , you didn't make it to Thunder Valley ? I could not pull it off...

Naw, Hammer, I couldn't make it to the Valley. CW told me that I couldn't have the weekend off, so I had to stay at home.

 

[murdock]

Even being a union man, on the surface this looks like an underhanded tactic by the union. And they wonder why they have a bad reputation.

And it's hard to argue about the seniority issue. This coming Friday I will have 30 years in this business, and I'm making the same wage as the guy who just got his mechanic's card last week. 25 years ago that was great. Now it doesn't seem so fair. Oh well, another 5 years, 11 months, and 7 days (not that I'm counting) I can hang up my tool belt and go bowling. Or drag racing. Or whatever retired people do.

Murdock.

 

[Ted]

an update on the situation.


As for salary increases, the union guys mentioned that even though we would be paying dues to them, with the increases that they might be able to negotiate into the contract, we should be salary neutral or in other wards, we wouldn't have any additional out of pocket expense for the dues, but we wouldn't see any net gain in our paycheck because the dues would eat up any salary gain.

Thanks to all for the input and encouragement.

"Salary neutral"? That's not much of a sales pitch. Along with their underhanded tactics, these guys don't have too much to offer.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Yeah, look at how that union blew an opportunity for themselves. A majority of you guys signed cards because you were told one thing. You were all at least open to hearing what they had to say. Then it turns out that their very first act with you involved dishonesty, leaving, as you say, a bad taste in your mouths.

My grandfather joined a union when he was shovelling coal out of rail cars for Alcoa a LONG time ago (I think 40s). He said they told him that he'd be in a better position and that his conditions would improve. He said that after joining, he was still shovelling coal, in addition to paying union dues.

I believe in that plant you can still be union and non-union. As a kid, I remember one of my non-union neighbors catching a brick in his windshield for crossing a picket line, one that he continued to cross because he thought that what he was doing was right.

I remember John Force talking about some trucking company he used to work for in which everyone had what he called good jobs. That wasn't good enough, and they struck until the place closed it's doors.

 

[mick]

a union guy once asked me if i'd be interested in making my very small
business 'union'. i said 'if i do, can i take the portion of the dues earmarked
for political contributions and make a contribution to whomever i think
is the best candidate for the office being elected?'
he said, 'well, we make that contribution for you'.
i said, 'goodbye'.

 

[mike cummings]

The union rat bastards have posted a press release on their main page how they have "organized Disneyland Pyro Technics" They didn't organize anything. They have bamboozzled us. -||- IATSE National -||

The press release follows:

IATSE Organizes Disneyland Pyro Technics Unit
July 2, 2007

LOS ANGELES, July 2 – For the first time in their history, employees of the Pryo Technics Department of Disneyland (California) have requested union representation and chosen the IATSE as their bargaining unit.

After securing the majority of representation cards on behalf of the group, the IA made the demand for recognition from Disneyland in late March, 2007. In May, the company agreed to a third party card check on June 28. The count of authorization cards by a neutral third part was done, and the IA was determined to have the majority of representation of the unit.

The company has accepted the result and negotiations will most likely begin in late July to secure a collective bargaining agreement.

The unit is comprised of 30 individuals who perform the fireworks and other special effects work (such as Fantasmic Show) for the Disneyland Park. They will join IATSE Local 44.

The IATSE is an International Union that represents members employed in the stagecraft, motion picture and television production, and trade shows industries throughout the United States, its Territories, and Canada.

For further information contact:
Katherine Orloff
IATSE Publicist
IATSE: 212-730-1770 ext. 150
Mobile: 240-477-3500
Email: [email protected]

The stupid union f#&ks don't even know how to spell the name of our department. It's Pyrotechnics, not Pyro Technics. I realize that them splitting up the name of our department by adding a space is trivial, but it proves to me that they don't know us, what we do or that they give a crap about us at all. They don't know a thing about the safe handling of explosives and yet they feel that they are qualified to represent us.

This press release indicates that they want us as a "trophy unit" since the Disneyland name carries alot of clout and Disneyland is well known for top notch fireworks shows on a consistent basis.

Notice how in the press release it says that we have requested union representation and have selected iatse as our bargining unit. Pure B.S. We were told that signing the cards merely expresses our interest in listening to the union's sales pitch, and is not a vote in favor of union representation and that a vote will come after we hear what the union has to say.

Our case is moving forward and I have gotten the return receipt back from the post office indicating that the union received my letter demanding that they nullify and return my card. Several other members in the department have also sent in similar letters demanding their cards back.