Evan Knoll rumor? (1 Viewer)

[stanman]

I may not pay a whole lot of attention to the sportsman pits,

That's obvious!

...but I can certainly look at numbers.

Then you need to look at a broader base of data and not just particular races. As noted above, many national events did not have full fields. If you were paying attention you'd know that fact.

Racers race, but you don't?

What? In your world it only counts if you are racing at NHRA events? Guess there are about 20,000+ other guys and gals that don't race in your opinion!?!? I guess winning the NorCal Top Comp championship this year doesn't count either!?!?

What bridge has NHRA burned that keeps you away and not other Sportsman racers?

Do you want my laundry list of why I stopped racing NHRA events? Okay, here's a handful...

1. Three to four days vacation for a single event... I can take no days of vacation and get two races in at our NorCal Top Comp events. Or for two days vacation I can get 5 races over Thanksgiving.

2. Two raises in entry fees without even a modest increase in purse. I can pay the same amount and race at two or more races at other venues for similar or better prize money.

3. The general treatment of sportsman racers... to long a list to go here.

4. Travel expenses... to attend national events with the way NHRA has changed the system, you have to run 5 or more divisional. In the western region that means traveling as far 1100 miles for a single event.

5. NHRA's "enhancement" of the racers' experience... the elimination of a class at each event was suppose to benefit the other classes... it has not.

Need some more... and it's not that NHRA has "burned the bridge" with me. It's just that I have elected not to support their events for a vast number of reasons.

I guess you don't represent the views of most sportsman racers if that's the case.

Obviously you haven't been paying attention the rest of the sportsman racers that have posted on this topic. My point of view is very common amongst Sportsman racers. They have just made a different decision as to whether or not they are going to support the NHRA events.

 

[Toejam]

Greg I must be good R/T practice for you, you respond to my posts faster than anyone in History!

You still haven't answered my question; if most/all sportsman racers share in your frustration with regards to Costs...Purse, and length of races. Why are so many of them coming back? Your not insinuating they're Fools are you?

 

[Dave]

That's obvious!

1. Three to four days vacation for a single event... I can take no days of vacation and get two races in at our NorCal Top Comp events. Or for two days vacation I can get 5 races over Thanksgiving.

The only way to speed things up for NHRA is to cut back on the number of cars. No way you can run two races in two days if you have 400+ cars.

2. Two raises in entry fees without even a modest increase in purse. I can pay the same amount and race at two or more races at other venues for similar or better prize money.

I can't argue this one. I'll conceed this.

3. The general treatment of sportsman racers... to long a list to go here.

I continue to hear this but never get any specifics.

4. Travel expenses... to attend national events with the way NHRA has changed the system, you have to run 5 or more divisional. In the western region that means traveling as far 1100 miles for a single event.

Most national events take 2-3 grade points. That's 2-3 divisionals. If the fields aren't full, and they aren't as you have pointed out, you can get in with less than that. Would you prefer they take all racers that want to run? That would make the race even longer(see complaint number one).

5. NHRA's "enhancement" of the racers' experience... the elimination of a class at each event was suppose to benefit the other classes... it has not.

They have cut back on the number of cars at many events and have more three day races than they ever have, something that should benefit you.


Obviously you haven't been paying attention the rest of the sportsman racers that have posted on this topic. My point of view is very common amongst Sportsman racers. They have just made a different decision as to whether or not they are going to support the NHRA events.

I don't know about Joe, but I do pay attention and I know many racers that don't have the same views as you. NHRA may just not be a fit for you just like bracket racing isn't a fit for others or IHRA may not be a fit for some, but apparently they are doing something right.

 

[stanman]

Greg I must be good R/T practice for you, you respond to my posts faster than anyone in History!

You still haven't answered my question; if most/all sportsman racers share in your frustration with regards to Costs...Purse, and length of races. Why are so many of them coming back? Your not insinuating they're Fools are you?

I check in when I get a chance.

Don't attempt to read more into my post than there really is... I guess you are missing my point!

Everyone has to make their own decisions on where to race. I chose to maximize my time and money by attending more races closer to home or go to events where the entry fee and purse, plus the amounting of racing to be had, are maximized. I probably race on a much smaller budget than other do as well given the E.T. and speed I run.

Others, while having similar issues with the NHRA events prefer to race NHRA events for their own reasons despite their misgivings.

 

[stanman]

I don't know about Joe, but I do pay attention and I know many racers that don't have the same views as you. NHRA may just not be a fit for you just like bracket racing isn't a fit for others or IHRA may not be a fit for some, but apparently they are doing something right.

But you have to admit that a large number do have the same views... don't you!?!? At least here on the west coast, NHRA has had a stranglehold on drag racing at any level above brackets. I think that's why you see higher Sportsman entries out here than you do in the midwest and some eastern regions. And even though NHRA has scaled back the number of entries, you are still seeing fields that are not full. Things NHRA has not delivered on the promises made with regards to the reduced number of entries.

Plus, I think you're missing my point to Dave...

I'm not looking for NHRA to pick up the pace or try to run more than one event. The time issue for me is the amount of racing that you get for an allotted period of time... at NHRA events, be they three or four day, there is an extraordinary amount of time just sitting around awaiting to run. Since I'm not a big spectator like the average fan that is just wasted time. When I go to the track I want to race, not sit around all day.

With regards to your comment about needing only 2-3 divisionals to get into a national...

Do have any idea how quickly Vegas or Pomona filled up! For the Finals, if you didn't have 6 grade points and weren't entered in the first 20 minutes, you did not get in! Things are probably different in other regions.

And back to the issue of time... most divisionals require the same time commitment that a national event does these day.

I don't begrudge other Sportsman racer's decision to race at NHRA national or divisional events. We all have to make choices... you'd have to ask those racers who feel the same way I do why they continue to go to Nationals and Divisionals.

 

[Reese]

That's obvious!


Do you want my laundry list of why I stopped racing NHRA events? Okay, here's a handful...

1. Three to four days vacation for a single event... I can take no days of vacation and get two races in at our NorCal Top Comp events. Or for two days vacation I can get 5 races over Thanksgiving.

2. Two raises in entry fees without even a modest increase in purse. I can pay the same amount and race at two or more races at other venues for similar or better prize money.

3. The general treatment of sportsman racers... to long a list to go here.

4. Travel expenses... to attend national events with the way NHRA has changed the system, you have to run 5 or more divisional. In the western region that means traveling as far 1100 miles for a single event.

5. NHRA's "enhancement" of the racers' experience... the elimination of a class at each event was suppose to benefit the other classes... it has not.

6. It cost the sportsman racer $250+ to play in the National Event sandbox and $250 if you $hit in it.

If you want to read about sportsman racers and some of their beef with NHRA, check out CLASS RACER NHRA/IHRA STOCK /SUPER STOCK Dragracing and go to the superstock/stock section.

 

[hellfirejim]

I don't have a dog in todays argument but back when I was racing alky funny we followed the divisional tour. One time we had the opportunity to attend a IHRA meet. Yes most of the problems were the same at both places as there is running any big race BUT there was one big difference.

At the IHRA we were treated as if they were actualy glad we were there. Imagine that. Instead of being treated as filler and as something that just took up time from the pros.....


you can make your own decisions but that was what happened to me.

jim

 

[Dave]

But you have to admit that a large number do have the same views... don't you!?!? At least here on the west coast, NHRA has had a stranglehold on drag racing at any level above brackets. I think that's why you see higher Sportsman entries out here than you do in the midwest and some eastern regions. And even though NHRA has scaled back the number of entries, you are still seeing fields that are not full. Things NHRA has not delivered on the promises made with regards to the reduced number of entries.

Plus, I think you're missing my point to Dave...

I'm not looking for NHRA to pick up the pace or try to run more than one event. The time issue for me is the amount of racing that you get for an allotted period of time... at NHRA events, be they three or four day, there is an extraordinary amount of time just sitting around awaiting to run. Since I'm not a big spectator like the average fan that is just wasted time. When I go to the track I want to race, not sit around all day.

With regards to your comment about needing only 2-3 divisionals to get into a national...

Do have any idea how quickly Vegas or Pomona filled up! For the Finals, if you didn't have 6 grade points and weren't entered in the first 20 minutes, you did not get in! Things are probably different in other regions.

And back to the issue of time... most divisionals require the same time commitment that a national event does these day.

I don't begrudge other Sportsman racer's decision to race at NHRA national or divisional events. We all have to make choices... you'd have to ask those racers who feel the same way I do why they continue to go to Nationals and Divisionals.

A large number have the same views as you? I bet for every one that does, I can find ten that don't share your opinion. Can NHRA improve? Certainly. Are they doing a pretty good job right now? Yes. Do they make mistakes? Of course, everyone does. I don't pretend to like every decision they make. I for one don't like the countdown.

I'm not missing the point, just addressing a couple of the issues that were on your complaint list. I was just pointing out, you can't have it both ways, unlimited entries and 2 day races. It just can't be done. As for sitting around, that also can't be helped when they have as many cars as they have. If you go to a bracket race with 500 cars, you'll also sit around for several hours at a time with nothing to do. One round of time trials would take at least 4 hours. IHRA national event? Same thing but you're not complaining about them. There are plenty of 200 car or less races out there for those that don't want to sit around but there is no reason to bash any series for having a lot of cars.

How quickly Vegas and Pomona fill up? That statement alone speaks volumes about racers that want to run NHRA. There isn't enough room or time to let everyone race that wants to race so they have to limit the entries. Shouldn't they reward the racers that race with them all year with the first chance to enter? If they didn't, someone would complain about that also. You can't please everyone.

I'm not trying to bash you or any other racer for making the choice not to race with NHRA. Most of the complaints I hear involve the grading points and time issues. Those things can't be helped because of the number of racers that want to race. My point is, just because NHRA doesn't fit your schedule and the way you want to race is no reason to continually bash them. It seems to be working for the majority of racers.


...and I'm with Joe. I would still like to know what these other complaints are because I never hear them. All I hear on this board is "If you have to ask you wouldn't understand." That's BS.

 

[.]

-sorry to interrupt-
Hey Greg, is there a website for NorCal top comp?
Wouldn't mind checking that out to learn some more.
Thanx man

 

[Toejam]

I will support Greg on one thing, Top Comp has to be far more entertaining than SG/SC! Trying to sit through a session of those two is like watching Paint dry. I used to enjoy watching SE cars run in Phx. cause they didn't have the 1 sec. delay like SC does, I can't imagine a 7.20-7.50 Dragster or Top Sportsman running much delay if at all.

 

[Dave]

I will support Greg on one thing, Top Comp has to be far more entertaining than SG/SC! Trying to sit through a session of those two is like watching Paint dry. I used to enjoy watching SE cars run in Phx. cause they didn't have the 1 sec. delay like SC does, I can't imagine a 7.20-7.50 Dragster or Top Sportsman running much delay if at all.

I think we can all agree on that!!!!

 

[Nunz]

Joe, I agree with you on the Top Comp/Top Dragster concept. I helped a friend run a S/E dragster when I lived in Phoenix, it was a lot of fun. But the Top Dragster craze seems to be gathering steem, and they are very fast, I think while these are not cheap cars, it's probably the most affordable way to race a real fast car nowadays. It's not difficult with today's technology to have a dragster run high 6's to low 7's without going broke, and hitting your number consistently is what it''s all about.

 

[stanman]

... I would still like to know what these other complaints are because I never hear them. ...

You guys want to know why I don't race NHRA events on a regular basis. Fine, I give you main reasons. Then you say I'm bashing NHRA!

If you guys are not racers then you never see the kind of crap Sportsman racers have to put up with. Your comment about finding 10:1... I'll take that bet as long as I get to phrase the questions for he poll!

Here are some of the little things that add up with regards to your "still like to know what these other complaints are..." comment.

1. Being screamed at, yes screamed at, and told "shut your fucking mouth and park your rig where I tell you" all because you had the gall to ask to pit two rows over, in an empty spot that your teammate/friend is saving.

2. Being given a fine and given a suspension for going to the tower and "questioning" why the starter or staging lanes crew screwed you in a race... when a Pro can do the same thing and get glad handed by the NHRA hierarchy.

3. Being told that your racing experience being "enhanced" will guarantee you any number of things that will make it better for those racers in attendance... when in fact, nothing has changed or even gotten worse because now they are using the lower car counts to compress the event.

4. Being told you can't sit in the General Admission grand stand with your racer ticket because there are designated grand stands for the racers. But you can't sit in the racers' grand stands because they are filled with "fans" who have general admission tickets.

5. When you approach a NHRA official (above the level of your Division Director) with an issue or concern you almost never get any kind of response or follow through... thank god for Mike Rice!

6. When track conditions are down right dangerous, you're told that if you don't want to race you pack your shit and leave.

I could probably list another dozen things that I have witnessed or experienced first hand...

But what it really boils down to is the ever lessening amount of respect that is shown the Sportsman racers by the management in Glendora...

Like I said, stuff that unless you're a racer you have no clue about!

Some racers just ignore it... I can't!

But issues like these are not one of the major reasons I don't support NHRA events. As noted previously, time and expense play the biggest role in my decision. I can get better value for my money and time, in my opinion, racing on the smaller stages!!

 

[stanman]

-sorry to interrupt-
Hey Greg, is there a website for NorCal top comp?
Wouldn't mind checking that out to learn some more.
Thanx man

Hey Paul,

NOR CAL TOP COMP

Don't let my ugly mug on the home page scare you!!

 

[stanman]

I will support Greg on one thing, Top Comp has to be far more entertaining than SG/SC! Trying to sit through a session of those two is like watching Paint dry. I used to enjoy watching SE cars run in Phx. cause they didn't have the 1 sec. delay like SC does, I can't imagine a 7.20-7.50 Dragster or Top Sportsman running much delay if at all.

Joe,

Quit using the term delay when referring to throttle-stop timers! The two are totally unrelated.

As for your "paint dry" comment... that's your opinion.

I'd rather sit at the finish line and watch SC, SG than I would 9 of 10 fuel car sessions!

 

[Dave]

Thanks Greg, that's what I was asking for. I just have not heard any of these and wanted to know. I wasn't trying to piss you off, I just wanted to know.

You are right, being a non-racer I don't know. That's why I asked.

 

[Ron]

Greg left a few off the list which I won't bore everyone by listing. Suffice it to say that anyone who runs an NHRA national event and then runs an IHRA national event usually notices the extreme difference in how they are treated.

At an IHRA event there is a good chance the president of the NHRA (Bill Bader before and now Arron Polburn) will appear in the pits and ask for suggestions on how they could make the event more enjoyable.

I don't need the personnel attention but is is nice to see the event organizers treat you like a valued customer instead of a nuisance.

 

[T.Smith]

I'd rather sit at the finish line and watch SC, SG than I would 9 of 10 fuel car sessions!

Well...at least you'll able to chose any seat you want.

 

[Toejam]

Joe,

Quit using the term delay when referring to throttle-stop timers! The two are totally unrelated.

As for your "paint dry" comment... that's your opinion.

I'd rather sit at the finish line and watch SC, SG than I would 9 of 10 fuel car sessions!

You just can't let this stuff go can you? I think you know what I was referring to, and if you think SG/SC's more enjoyable than Fuel cars, than we agree to disagree!

 

[stanman]

You just can't let this stuff go can you? I think you know what I was referring to, ...

You know why I can't let it go? Because it goes to show the lack of respect you show towards just about any class that doesn't run nitro. And it also perpetuates ignorance amongst fans who don't know the difference between a delay box and a throttle-stop.

You may not like or appreciate the Super categories but the least you could do is use the correct terminology when discussing them. I find it highly offensive that you continue to make erroneous statements while professing to be so knowledgeable. Not everyone "knows" what you mean.

Let me ask you this Joe, what would your response be to a first time national event spectator that ask the question, "why do those cars sound like they are coasting off the line then blast wide open..." ?

Would you give them a valid, well thought out response? Or would you perpetuate the newby's ignorance and belittle the participants for their choice of competition?