Evan Knoll rumor?

[vegasnitro]

No Vegas for us! My point was that both sanctioning bodies have been somewhat stagnant. One stepping forward in a major way as Jay has indicated, will wake up the neighborhood-big time! Such a wake-up call could trigger a host of new ideas, programs, opportunities, sponsorship deals, etc.
With all due respect (which is what you say when you think the other party is way off base) your examples, while accurate, were of sanctioning bodies splitting off from and dividing established organizations. What we are speaking of here is pure competition. It's great for everyone involved especially the business that believes they have a virtual monopoly. Wouldn't you say that describes the NHRA? You wait and see!
I would love to run a West Coast IHRA event or even an event sanctioned by the new-improved NHRA where they have to step up to compete. As has been mentioned already NHRA sportsmen racers fund a giant share of the racing that we see without a lot being done for them. Taking for granted that this will last forever is outdated thinking?
Just my take.

With all due repect Doc , I think it is better to have both sanctions going in the same direction with a common goal of increaing exposure and building stars of the future, which is something the Busch series does for NASCAR very well.

Since we know neither scenario is likely to happen, I would also like to see a west coast IHRA event.

 

[Rexfiles]

For heaven's sake here Joe there's no need to bring HIM into this disagreement whatsoever. You know better, and I'll be first to say you have offended me with this one.

I actually prefer "JEEZ LOUISE" myself. I have an aunt named Louise, I just don't say it in front of her

REX

 

[Jude]

Are you saying that you go to each one of these tracks once a season and have two races at a time?

If that helps, why not have a six day race at one track once a year and crown your champs. That would really cut down on travel expenses.

No, I'm saying IHRA understands how expensive it can be for self funded sportsman racers to compete in their points series and have tried various things to accomodate the competitors. Is it better, I don't know but I do know that at a regular NHRA divisional over three days, even running multiple classes/cars, I get a lot of free-time. Maybe, just maybe the could cut it down to two days, or run multiple events over the same weekend.

I am also saying that my division (5) covers alot of territory, and if I wish to compete at all of the in-division events I will have to travel a ton of miles and quite a bit of my time traveling. For me that becomes an issue as I have a job working for someone else and have limited vacation. Obviously you don't have a problem getting time off and have unlimited funding for your racing operation.

 

[stanman]

Jesus Christ, you forget your Meds or something? I will have another Beer in the Nitro pits, and I promise I won't bring up anything to do with Primadonna Sportsman racers ever again!

No meds required! Just tired of trying to explain every single detail to someone who has no desire to understand and appears incapable of separating points of debate.

And if you think Sportsman racers are primadonnas then it goes even further to illustrate how little you comprehend about the motivations of and efforts required by the sportsman racers.

I as a sportsman racer have no illusions of my place in the NHRA pecking order. That is why I, with limited exceptions, elected to not support their events. But my support of my fellow racers who continue to participate at NHRA events is unwavering. As is my desire to see the organization improve for all participants... not just the pros.

NHRA has been riding on the backs of the Sportsman racers for so many years with less and less recognition of that fact as time goes by. If there are any primadonnas, they are in Glendora... or fans like you who have little to no regard for the Sportsman racers and only view them as a reason go refill your beer or to try and feel like your involved by clamouring for your next little momento from one of the pros.

 

[paoldtimer]

I actually prefer "JEEZ LOUISE" myself. I have an aunt named Louise, I just don't say it in front of her

REX

haha I say "Jeeze Louise" too! Either that or "Cheese and Crackers", in a PA dutch accent...

 

[.]

haha I say "Jeeze Louise" too! Either that or "Cheese and Crackers", in a PA dutch accent...

Or Cheese and Rice.

 

[Rajunz]

No meds required! Just tired of trying to explain every single detail to someone who has no desire to understand and appears incapable of separating points of debate.

And if you think Sportsman racers are primadonnas then it goes even further to illustrate how little you comprehend about the motivations of and efforts required by the sportsman racers.

I as a sportsman racer have no illusions of my place in the NHRA pecking order. That is why I, with limited exceptions, elected to not support their events. But my support of my fellow racers who continue to participate at NHRA events is unwavering. As is my desire to see the organization improve for all participants... not just the pros.

NHRA has been riding on the backs of the Sportsman racers for so many years with less and less recognition of that fact as time goes by. If there are any primadonnas, they are in Glendora... or fans like you who have little to no regard for the Sportsman racers and only view them as a reason go refill your beer or to try and feel like your involved by clamouring for your next little momento from one of the pros.

Now that's a well thought out, intelligent response Greg. I know alot of Sportsman Racers bash on the NHRA, and for the most part, they have legitimate gripes. Lets just hope that with the separation of the Pro Racers over to HD Partners, that what's left of the NHRA will begin addresing alot of these issues.

 

[Mr. Jean]

Now that's a well thought out, intelligent response Greg. I know alot of Sportsman Racers bash on the NHRA, and for the most part, they have legitimate gripes. Lets just hope that with the separation of the Pro Racers over to HD Partners, that what's left of the NHRA will begin addresing alot of these issues.

I've got to agree with this one. Let's see what 2008 brings for the Sportsman.

 

[jackass]

Billy,

Do you have a larger picture of the car you are using as an avitar? It looks really cool, yours?

Yeah.. check out my myspace link below..


Billy

 

[rosco]

Since we know neither scenario is likely to happen, I would also like to see a west coast IHRA event.

Have you ever witnessed the IHRA Finals in Rockingham or Bill Baders race in Ohio, the Sportsman races enter many hundreds of cars for those events, I have seen them finish eliminations past 2:00 AM several times, they do all they can for those racers, Rockingham is packed Friday & Saturday, only about 1/2 return for Sunday, Not sure the West Coast would support an IHRA race.

Oh bye the way, I have seen some of the best paint jobs ever on those IHRA Cars

 

[Toejam]

No meds required! Just tired of trying to explain every single detail to someone who has no desire to understand and appears incapable of separating points of debate.

And if you think Sportsman racers are primadonnas then it goes even further to illustrate how little you comprehend about the motivations of and efforts required by the sportsman racers.

I as a sportsman racer have no illusions of my place in the NHRA pecking order. That is why I, with limited exceptions, elected to not support their events. But my support of my fellow racers who continue to participate at NHRA events is unwavering. As is my desire to see the organization improve for all participants... not just the pros.

NHRA has been riding on the backs of the Sportsman racers for so many years with less and less recognition of that fact as time goes by. If there are any primadonnas, they are in Glendora... or fans like you who have little to no regard for the Sportsman racers and only view them as a reason go refill your beer or to try and feel like your involved by clamouring for your next little momento from one of the pros.

Next little momento from the Pro's? Yeah right...Obviously most of your Sportsman brethren don't agree with you. Look at the Entries at NHRA races, sure is a ton of racers showing up. Something must be good to get 150 SC/SG at every race!

 

[stanman]

Next little momento from the Pro's? Yeah right...Obviously most of your Sportsman brethren don't agree with you. Look at the Entries at NHRA races, sure is a ton of racers showing up. Something must be good to get 150 SC/SG at every race!

You just don't get it and you never will because you have your narrow little view of the drag racing world.

Racers race! Does that fact only apply to the Pros in your world. And don't use Vegas car counts as an example... it shows how little you pay attention to what's happening in the Sportsman pits.

 

[jackass]

I know several Sportsman racers form the area.. and they run both NHRA and IHRA... why... because they race ..no matter where or when or with whom it shale be....

Billy

 

[Dave]

Yes, racers race, but I do think it matters where and with whom. The Byron IHRA race draws about 125-150 cars, NHRA divisional in Joliet gets about 400-500. The IHRA Douglas, GA race about 150-200 cars, Valdosta NHRA had over 400 last weekend. Clay City KY., IHRA about 225-250, Bowling Green, NHRA 500-550.

Most NHRA divisionals, not all, have 2-3 times as many racers as IHRA divisionals. As far as national events are concerned I'll use Budd's Creek and Richmond, two events close geographically and chronologically. Budd's Creek had a total of 171 QR, SR and HR cars. Richmond had 164 SC and SG but did not run Super Street.

Stock and SS, Budds Creek had 119 cars, Richmond had a total of 129 cars.

Pretty close at the national events but a large discrepancy at the divisional level. The similarity of the car counts at national events can be explained by the fact that NHRA limits entries and doesn't run all classes due to time and space restrictions. I'm sure I could find similar events that all classes run at an NHRA event and there would be a larger difference in the car count.

IHRA does have close to the same number of cars at some national events as NHRA, but if you subtract the 250 or so bracket cars that run it isn't close.

Don't get me wrong, I go to both IHRA and NHRA races and I wnat them both to succeed, but the simple fact is, more racers race with NHRA and most of the racers I know aren't complaining as much as is portrayed here.

 

[NHRADeuce]

Regardless of who own what sanctioning body, the fact is that the HRAs are already in direct competition and NHRA has consistently higher car counts. Haven't market forces already spoken? Even in the pro ranks FC has proven to be drawn to the NHRA series, even with all the hype of the increased IHRA payouts.

I agree with the IRL/Champ an Nascar/Busch comparisons. There is no doubt that the open wheel series have become a mere shadow of their former combined popularity. It would make sense to have a feeder series for NHRA. It practically is now anyway with various IHRA pros making the move to NHRA full time. I think it would make a lot of sense for HDP and NHRA non-profit to buy IHRA and split it in a similar fashion as NHRA is being split. Both sanctioning bodies would benefit as one seems to run the better pro show and the other a better sportsman show.

 

[Jude]

Yes, racers race, but I do think it matters where and with whom. The Byron IHRA race draws about 125-150 cars, NHRA divisional in Joliet gets about 400-500. The IHRA Douglas, GA race about 150-200 cars, Valdosta NHRA had over 400 last weekend. Clay City KY., IHRA about 225-250, Bowling Green, NHRA 500-550.

Most NHRA divisionals, not all, have 2-3 times as many racers as IHRA divisionals. As far as national events are concerned I'll use Budd's Creek and Richmond, two events close geographically and chronologically. Budd's Creek had a total of 171 QR, SR and HR cars. Richmond had 164 SC and SG but did not run Super Street.

Stock and SS, Budds Creek had 119 cars, Richmond had a total of 129 cars.

Pretty close at the national events but a large discrepancy at the divisional level. The similarity of the car counts at national events can be explained by the fact that NHRA limits entries and doesn't run all classes due to time and space restrictions. I'm sure I could find similar events that all classes run at an NHRA event and there would be a larger difference in the car count.

IHRA does have close to the same number of cars at some national events as NHRA, but if you subtract the 250 or so bracket cars that run it isn't close.

Don't get me wrong, I go to both IHRA and NHRA races and I wnat them both to succeed, but the simple fact is, more racers race with NHRA and most of the racers I know aren't complaining as much as is portrayed here.

Apples to oranges, I don't need 5 or 6 grade points to run a big national event on the IHRA side. I think if you would remove the racers who attend 1 or 2 divisionals (NHRA) just to get a few grade points so that they can attend their one national event per year you would have better comparables. It's been my experience that a good percentage of participants at NHRA divisionals are there merely to earn those grade points.

 

[stanman]

Yes, racers race, but I do think it matters where and with whom. The Byron IHRA race draws about 125-150 cars, NHRA divisional in Joliet gets about 400-500. The IHRA Douglas, GA race about 150-200 cars, Valdosta NHRA had over 400 last weekend. Clay City KY., IHRA about 225-250, Bowling Green, NHRA 500-550.

Most NHRA divisionals, not all, have 2-3 times as many racers as IHRA divisionals. As far as national events are concerned I'll use Budd's Creek and Richmond, two events close geographically and chronologically. Budd's Creek had a total of 171 QR, SR and HR cars. Richmond had 164 SC and SG but did not run Super Street.

Stock and SS, Budds Creek had 119 cars, Richmond had a total of 129 cars.

Pretty close at the national events but a large discrepancy at the divisional level. The similarity of the car counts at national events can be explained by the fact that NHRA limits entries and doesn't run all classes due to time and space restrictions. I'm sure I could find similar events that all classes run at an NHRA event and there would be a larger difference in the car count.

IHRA does have close to the same number of cars at some national events as NHRA, but if you subtract the 250 or so bracket cars that run it isn't close.

Don't get me wrong, I go to both IHRA and NHRA races and I wnat them both to succeed, but the simple fact is, more racers race with NHRA and most of the racers I know aren't complaining as much as is portrayed here.

Dave,

None that means anything unless you talking about the fact that attendance at NHRA events have been on the down turn in the Sportsman categories. With the exception of the Indy, Vegas we've seen a marked decrease in the averages for all the categories.

You mentioned Richmond having 164 SC and SG cars but fail to mention those fields were not full. With the exception of Indy and Vegas, the fields for SC and SG are limited to between 100-120 entries. There were quite a few national events that did not see the maximum number of entrants this year. That would not have been the case 3-4 years ago.

I've made no argument that NHRA and IHRA garner the same level of participation... that's obviously not the case. Only that more and more Sportsman racers are getting tired of the B.S. shoveled towards them by NHRA.

 

[Reese]

NHRA have a feeder called Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series. Do you think that Lucas oil would still sponsor this if NHRA came up with another series? They should just improve on the Lucas Oil instead of trying to start another series. I think a earlier thread was about divisional attendance and promoting, they could start there.
NHRA suppose to get more involved with the Sportsman side of drag racing when this HDP deal is completed, let's see how that works out. Myself I still think that they are coming up with rules(enhancements) to drive the sportsman racers out(or at least get us away from national events) than help more people get involve in drag racing.
There a lot of sportsman racers that feel the same way about NHRA like Greg does. And if it was not for their love of racing, there would be alot more. We get step child treatment and still can't wait until we can race at the next NHRA event.
Also there are alot of guys and gals that used to only run IHRA that now run both series (Bertozzi(sp) and Cummings boys comes to mind).

 

[Toejam]

You just don't get it and you never will because you have your narrow little view of the drag racing world.

Racers race! Does that fact only apply to the Pros in your world. And don't use Vegas car counts as an example... it shows how little you pay attention to what's happening in the Sportsman pits.

I may not pay a whole lot of attention to the sportsman pits, but I can certainly look at numbers. Racers race, but you don't? What bridge has NHRA burned that keeps you away and not other Sportsman racers? I guess you don't represent the views of most sportsman racers if that's the case.

 

[Dave]

Dave,

None that means anything unless you talking about the fact that attendance at NHRA events have been on the down turn in the Sportsman categories. With the exception of the Indy, Vegas we've seen a marked decrease in the averages for all the categories.

You mentioned Richmond having 164 SC and SG cars but fail to mention those fields were not full. With the exception of Indy and Vegas, the fields for SC and SG are limited to between 100-120 entries. There were quite a few national events that did not see the maximum number of entrants this year. That would not have been the case 3-4 years ago.

I've made no argument that NHRA and IHRA garner the same level of participation... that's obviously not the case. Only that more and more Sportsman racers are getting tired of the B.S. shoveled towards them by NHRA.

Greg,

I do have a few numbers I researched and I'm sure you can find an example or two that would prove your point. I picked a couple of races, Atlanta and Sonoma, opposite ends of the country and came up with these numbers. I would research more but I'm a little busy here in Noble. We will probably end up with close to 500 cars this weekend.

Sonoma 03 07
STK 55 65
SS 38 60
SC 96 120
SG 80 102('06 number, not run in '07)
Total 269 347

Atlanta 03 07
STK 61 56
SC 72 76
SG 78 70
SST 36 48
Total 247 250

I also have the numbers for the years in between '03 and '07 and they show much the same thing, some steady increases, some up and down through the years.

Not exactly that marked difference you were talking about.