Dale Armstrong's Plan (3 Viewers)

[Nitrohaulic]

Internal engine parts and dimensions would evolve into "spec" parts...spec rod length, spec stroke, spec bore-size, spec piston design...essentially when you place an order with BME, Winberg, Arias, AJPE, etc., etc., you'd would be ordering these parts in one-size-fits-all. Every single Top Fuel and Funny Car team would use the exact same parts. This would come to frution either by natural industry standardization or NHRA/SFI mandated acceptance.

Like they do for stock and super stock now. Not just one locked in company with no competition (Can you say VP?). Competing companies that have to get their stuff accepted.

 

[Toejam]

I remember in 2000 when NHRA went to 90%, the IHRA followed suit but also slowed the blowers down to 25% over. The low buck guys complained that was a disadvantage to them saying the blower speeds was the only way they could be competitive. But Jim Young's right, producing parts for any new combination that everyone has to use takes time.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Well, then? How about 1,000 ft for the rest of this year, lower compression at 1,320 for next?

 

[kingcobrafan]

Then the sanctioning body should have forced it.
With mandatory tires, fuel delivery systems, fuel specs, chassis specs, cubic inch limitations, rev limiters and all the other current performance limiting rules they mandated, which I'm sure the racers opposed, why would Dale's recommendation be any different?

First thing that came to mind, Bob.

 

[davey]

No disrespect intended towards anyone but I'll take AA/Dale's opinion over anybody's. He has nothing to gain and nothing to lose by stating it. He doesn't report to Glendora and currently doesn't work for anyone.

Also, I swear some of you guys could screw up a one car parade. It's not healthy having your brain running at "50% over".

 

[Nitromike]

How about stock bodies! No narrowing , Just front and Back spoilers. Without the areo they would have to lower the HP so they don't smoke the tires!!! The Cars would look like real cars not just a wedge with graphics painted on!

 

[Muddy]

How about stock bodies! No narrowing , Just front and Back spoilers. Without the areo they would have to lower the HP so they don't smoke the tires!!! The Cars would look like real cars not just a wedge with graphics painted on!

Although reconfigurating the bodies is something many of us would like to see this is a problem for all fuel classes not just the coupes. Top fuel is already way past the limit and A/FD going to be pushing the limit in a very few short time so it should be dealt with now before we lose someone else. Even with Dale Armstrong's formula something must be done to make the tracks safer. Standarize the sand trap prep and configuration. Someone should certify the catch nets and the mounting. Probably the one nobody wants to do but must be faced now is the tracks. Many tracks at their current length will just have to be eliminated from national events if they can't be improved to meet a new standard. They say this is a professional sport..well if it is and if it's going to remain one someone must step up and make the tough decisions.

 

[Butch]

I agree with Dale to a point - lowering the comp ratio and slowing the blowers are a good start. Let's go a little further and go back to the "old" days before multiple mags/plugs/fuel pumps, take away some of the clutch system "stages".

It won't cost anybody anything to implement the above.

 

[d'kid]

How about stock bodies! No narrowing , Just front and Back spoilers. Without the areo they would have to lower the HP so they don't smoke the tires!!! The Cars would look like real cars not just a wedge with graphics painted on!

Mike,
Then there would not have been no dodge chargers from 69-72, no cuda's or challengers, no vega's or pinto's(not narrowed, just streched beyond belief), no 71 mach 1's, no gen 2 camaros.

Most telling pictures I've ever seen was in SS/DI around 72, Jocko's Streamliner and The Invader with a car cover on it.

oh yeah, we wouldn't have 7/8th scale Pro Stockers.

by the rule book, and this goes back to around 2002, there are two minimums in roof width; 48 and change at the A pillar 49 and change at the C pillar, max two inch chop, and the roof panel has to be within 4 inches of stock length.

Guess you missed the flying funnys of the late sixties. I don't understand how, by making a car evil handling, you're making it safer. Heck, I'm all for letting them put vortex generators on the rear of the roof, like KB had on the 86 tempo, then maybe they could drop the size of the spill plates. Downforce is a good thing. Having the roof contour as close as possible to the cage/driver is a good thing. Fuel Coupes got hung with the name Funny Cars because... they look funny.

d'kid

 

[Toejam]

I agree with Dale to a point - lowering the comp ratio and slowing the blowers are a good start. Let's go a little further and go back to the "old" days before multiple mags/plugs/fuel pumps, take away some of the clutch system "stages".

It won't cost anybody anything to implement the above.

How can you say that, your asking all these teams to buy all new parts making all their inventory worthless.

 

[Nunz]

I think Dale is spot-on. I posted elsewhere that while the 1000 ft. deal is a good short-term idea, in the big picture, we need to have a slower, less destructive fuel car that can run a 1/4 mile. Right now, these cars are still going to be running at the same velocity, shut shutting off sooner. I think most people would rather have a less violent, 300 mph car run 1320, than a more explosive, destructive combo shut off at 1000 ft. JMO.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I think Dale is spot-on. I posted elsewhere that while the 1000 ft. deal is a good short-term idea, in the big picture, we need to have a slower, less destructive fuel car that can run a 1/4 mile. Right now, these cars are still going to be running at the same velocity, shut shutting off sooner. I think most people would rather have a less violent, 300 mph car run 1320, than a more explosive, destructive combo shut off at 1000 ft. JMO.

I'll agree with that 100%

 

[Butch]

How can you say that, your asking all these teams to buy all new parts making all their inventory worthless.

My friend - here is how it's done. you can leave a mag off of the dual mag drive or bolt a single mag to the base cost to do so "ZERO", then you "plug" the "B" plug location cost ~ 15.00 for the plug, as for the fuel pump they are modular and can be left as one instead of "stacked" cost "ZERO" as for the clutch leave out levers again cost "Zero" so where are all these new parts and worthless inventory you refer to???

 

[Nunz]

Joe, according to Dale's idea, the biggest cost is in pistons and head gakets. Do you how short the lifespan of a piston is in a fuel car? Pretty short. So according to Armstrong's experiment back in the late '90s, he was able to have a car run 4.7s at around 300 with very little investment. The part I liked best was that he said the motor looked better than an alky motor. Now that would be good for the fuel classes.

 

[none]

Doc,

I have no problem with anyone who disagrees with me. If we all agreed how boring would that be? I am sure that Dale's plan would slow the cars for a while. I will however go with A.J. and Coil on the tune-up question. They are both out there doing it right now.

And don't believe for a second that the Crew Chiefs are going to be happy running 4.7's at 300. They are going to go to work immediatly trying to run 60's at 310. and then on it goes. The CC's have been able to overcome every restriction put on them for 50 years and will continue to do so. This one would take some time, but it will be overcome.

Alan

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Just think of all the teams who could come out and play if the carnage wasn't so incredible. From the gist of his experiment, parts attrition would be substantially minimized so this could be making the sport so much more affordable for everyone and I believe we'd see the fields fuller again. That alone would be worth the change not to mention preserving the 1320' tracks.

 

[megadeth]

Alan as Dale said nobody even the exceptional crew chiefs would be able to circumvent the change.
The only way to circumvent it would be to cheat.
Since NHRA is so into manufactured drama as the countdown creates and so many fans who want to see quality side by side racing on a level playing field why do you think Dale’s idea is not the way to go?
Less part carnige, less oil downs, less expensive and safer.
Maybe none of those crew chiefs you speak about want to loose their edge.
I would really like to hear your reason maybe you have a legitimate point.

 

[none]

Bob,

I think that Dale's plan would certainly slow the cars down. I don't believe that it would keep them slow forever. The CC's get paid to be faster than the other guy. And they would start working that way as soon as it was known that this would be the new rule. But sooner or later the cars would start getting a little faster and a little faster.

Alan

 

[Nunz]

Alan you are right. But if we just leave the modern tune-up, and just shut'em off at 1000 ft, what's next? 1/8 Mile fuel racing, in my opinion, just isn't going to do it for fans long term.

 

[megadeth]

Bob,

I think that Dale's plan would certainly slow the cars down. I don't believe that it would keep them slow forever. The CC's get paid to be faster than the other guy. And they would start working that way as soon as it was known that this would be the new rule. But sooner or later the cars would start getting a little faster and a little faster.

Alan

I understand what you are saying Alan but why would Dale state there would be no way to circumvent that simple of a change he recommended if there was?

If you control the compression and blowers which limits the ability to feed more air limiting the ability to increase more fuel were would the performance gains come from?
Since the heads and block restrictions are also limited. I really would like to know were the possibility of performance gain would come from I’m not trying to be difficult.