Dale Armstrong's Plan (4 Viewers)

[Randy]

I also found that to be an interesting read. I was at the test in Dallas as well. I however disagree with the statement about turning things up and blowing up at 800 feet. The tire is the Governor and turning things up is just going to smoke the hoops.

Alan

Alan:

You'd be surprised. Right now the tune ups are set up to survive the 1,320. Knowing it's a shorter race the crew chiefs will learn how to make power harder/sooner because they don't need to survive past 1,001 feet, tires be darned.

I don't know how good of an example this is, but I have a tune-up in Shane Sanford's TAD sand dragster. He's won the NSDA Sand Drag's Championships 3 out of the last 4 years (shameless plug). He has all the stuff you'd find on an NHRA TAD including Brad's heads and block, PSI screw blower, etc, but there is one exception to his program. He races 100 yards, not 1/4 mile.

His set up will not make it much past 100 yards before violently self destructing. The tune-up is on "wreck" in order for him to run along side the top running cars in his class. On blown alcohol, in the sand, in 100 yards, they run as quick as 2.4 seconds at 150 miles per hour.

My point is, you would think that slipping and sliding along in the sand for 100 yards (300 feet) wouldn't give you enough traction to do any damage and that you wouldn't be able to give it enough power to hurt it at all. Not so. And Dale Armstrong knows that the same applies to the Lee Beards, Tim Richards and Austin Coils of the world...plus that renowned one car team mega tuner and great golfer Tim Wilkerson. (Tim, where's my shirt?)

Dale knows the limits, and Dale knows his fellow thinkers. I think he is correct.

RG

 

[none]

Randy,

I respectfully disagree with you. Read my 1000' tune up thread. Coil and A.J. both said that nothing would change and stated reasons for that.

Alan

 

[NitroRichFire]

IF NHRA is smart enough to adopt Dale's idea, and stick to it, it won't matter who complains. Once they do that, there won't be any need to the 1000' track. However, there still is a need for better sand trap material and the area beyond. Hopefully Jim Head can help in that direction.

Davie Settles as Tech Director!!! OMG, what a scream that would be!!!!

Ma Green

Pat, your 100% right!!! Those sand traps need to be FIXED!!!

 

[Paul]

The tire is the Governor and turning things up is just going to smoke the hoops.

Alan

This is what I was thinking. I guess we will see in the next couple of weeks.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

When a disagreement arises between Dale Armstrong and Alan Reinhart, I hope I won't be disrespected for following the wisdom of Dale in this instance. I believe his plan will/would be an exceptional option to implement in an effort to accomplish what they-NHRA have been discussing for some time - to do-slow these fuel cars down. I further believe it would be so very easy to enforce as Dale mentioned. The lack of carnage might be the biggest benefit of all!

Lastly, I believe we will not only see tires smoking in Denver due to the fuses being shortened but due to the use of the new tire and the additional variable this will enter into the new equation. In short, I'll believe Dale more than Alan.
Please note. There is no disrespect intended to Alan as he's not just an announcer but also proven to be a qualified wrench, crewman, builder in his own right. It's more giving the respect AA Dale is due after proving himself with a lifetime of accomplishments in exactly what he's talking about.

 

[Toejam]

Now this is a change I would surely support! I had always assumed that mandating a smaller Fuel pump would be a consistant way to slow the cars down. But AA Dale says that won't work...

 

[Super Mod]

I'm going with Alan even though I hate to disagree with the "master" regarding the 1000 ft tune-up. However, I think even if DA's plan works there will still be a segregation of 1000 ft and 1320 tracks based upon a shutdown distance "standard" yet to be determined by the NHRA.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Nice catch Allen/Alan, I mean Jack. I'm starting to get used to being disagreed with more and more every day!

 

[Super Mod]

Lastly, I believe we will not only see tires smoking in Denver due to the fuses being shortened but due to the use of the new tire and the additional variable this will enter into the new equation.

This is exactly the reason why I think the tune-up won't change from last years "play book"

 

[Bobby Bennett]

Guys, thanks for the kind words, but make sure you give Jon Asher the credit for the interview. He's the man that made it happen for our CompetitionPlus.com team.

 

[tomcat]

Kudo's to all involved with this story. I had read all of the other opinions and was on the bandwagon for a smaller pump and reduced fuel line diameter, and now I know why that won't work. Again, thanks for the article, makes it seem like we have be given a chance to talk directly to someone that can explain what will work, and what won't.

 

[megadeth]

When a disagreement arises between Dale Armstrong and Alan Reinhart, I hope I won't be disrespected for following the wisdom of Dale in this instance. I believe his plan will/would be an exceptional option to implement in an effort to accomplish what they-NHRA have been discussing for some time - to do-slow these fuel cars down. I further believe it would be so very easy to enforce as Dale mentioned. The lack of carnage might be the biggest benefit of all!

Lastly, I believe we will not only see tires smoking in Denver due to the fuses being shortened but due to the use of the new tire and the additional variable this will enter into the new equation. In short, I'll believe Dale more than Alan.
Please note. There is no disrespect intended to Alan as he's not just an announcer but also proven to be a qualified wrench, crewman, builder in his own right. It's more giving the respect AA Dale is due after proving himself with a lifetime of accomplishments in exactly what he's talking about.

I like you Bobby respect Alan he has been around the sport for a very long time but when it comes to the technical side of racing I will take what Dale A. has to say everytime.
No disrespect intended Alan.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I don't know how anyone could disagree with Dale. I didn't have a problem with 1,000 ft but, his ideas could slow the cars down AND save parts. Sounds like big show pistons could be used over and over. Just check and coat them again?

I won't blame NHRA for not having a crystal ball that would have shown them future tire issues, etc, but, how many people might be alive today if they'd adopted Dale's ideas? They might have complained but, they'd still be alive to do so.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Does anyone realize that you arguing about two COMPLETELY different issues?
1.Alan informed us about what AJ and Coil told him about not adjusting the tuneup for 1000' racing. I can guarantee you that he had their permission to repeat this information. And . . . you are NOT going to get insight like this anywhere else.
2. Jon's interview with Dale was very interesting. It brought up some very disturbing issues. A new piston, different blower pulleys and other parts are not going to be produced overnight. A huge supply issue, especially for smaller teams who are barely making it from race to race now.
In addition, rules need to be rewritten to address specific penalties for cheating (and NOT in the F$$$ing Policy Manual!) And . . . as Dale said, someone needs to be in charge of fuel racing with absolute authority. Oh yeah, someone also needs to train NHRA Technical Staff so they know what the H$$$ they are looking at. None of this can possibly occur until the 2009 season.

I'm gonna sit back and watch what happens at Denver. I might have an opinion after that because I, like everyone else, have no idea what is going to happen. JMHO - Jim

 

[Demon]

Finally...somone who gets it.Thanks AA Dale,Jon Asher and Bobby Bennett.

 

[megadeth]

Does anyone realize that you arguing about two COMPLETELY different issues?
1.Alan informed us about what AJ and Coil told him about not adjusting the tuneup for 1000' racing. I can guarantee you that he had their permission to repeat this information. And . . . you are NOT going to get insight like this anywhere else.
2. Jon's interview with Dale was very interesting. It brought up some very disturbing issues. A new piston, different blower pulleys and other parts are not going to be produced overnight. A huge supply issue, especially for smaller teams who are barely making it from race to race now.
In addition, rules need to be rewritten to address specific penalties for cheating (and NOT in the F$$$ing Policy Manual!) And . . . as Dale said, someone needs to be in charge of fuel racing with absolute authority. Oh yeah, someone also needs to train NHRA Technical Staff so they know what the H$$$ they are looking at. None of this can possibly occur until the 2009 season.

I'm gonna sit back and watch what happens at Denver. I might have an opinion after that because I, like everyone else, have no idea what is going to happen. JMHO - Jim

Sure they want the 1000' implementation! Alan Johnson has the tune-up to still kill them all do you think he wants to give that up?
Read the article although Alan is very knowledgable about the sport and has access to very knowledgable people we are talking about a long term sollution that will return the integrity of the sport in a controlled safe and level playing field. Did you really READ the interview article Dale has a very long history of being an innovator of the sport of Drag Racing?
The sad thing is if NHRA would have heeded his advice back then how many lives would have been spared? Makes you wonder don't it?

 

[MaC]

Bob P...if you read the interview carefully, you will see that NHRA did tell Dale they would accept it...but the racers rebelled. The point that was also made in the thread of the time frame is very valid, whether it be for engine and drivetrain parts or racetrack improvements. There is only one thing that could be done in less than three weeks...they did it at minimal cost to anyone. Looking forward to see how it goes in Denver and then at a good biting low altitude track like Seattle.

DMaC

 

[TAFC 5 81]

I agree with his idea of less compression and blower OD. However, I wish the fuel pump question was discussed more. Would the clutch be pulling the motor way down if it was single stage (and not 6 disc)? If you go back to the mid 1980s, 5.40s at 260+ were competitive. By the late 1980s,
4.90s at 290 were run. Darrell Gwynn told me the multi stage clutch was most responsible for the performance gains made at that time.

 

[megadeth]

Bob P...if you read the interview carefully, you will see that NHRA did tell Dale they would accept it...but the racers rebelled. The point that was also made in the thread of the time frame is very valid, whether it be for engine and drivetrain parts or racetrack improvements. There is only one thing that could be done in less than three weeks...they did it at minimal cost to anyone. Looking forward to see how it goes in Denver and then at a good biting low altitude track like Seattle.

DMaC

Then the sanctioning body should have forced it.
With mandatory tires, fuel delivery systems, fuel specs, chassis specs, cubic inch limitations, rev limiters and all the other current performance limiting rules they mandated, which I'm sure the racers opposed, why would Dale's recommendation be any different?

If NHRA liked it they should have implemented it.
By the way thanks for the response Dave I have enjoyed your commentary over the years.

 

[Wes]

Settles would be the best NHRA employee since Buster Couch.

The AA/Dale plan has so many benefits and very, very few drawbacks. I spoke with two highly respected nitro tuners this evening and they would be 100% behind this course of action. The conversation went as far as to suggest some very interesting points. Here they are in no particular order...

Internal engine parts and dimensions would evolve into "spec" parts...spec rod length, spec stroke, spec bore-size, spec piston design...essentially when you place an order with BME, Winberg, Arias, AJPE, etc., etc., you'd would be ordering these parts in one-size-fits-all. Every single Top Fuel and Funny Car team would use the exact same parts. This would come to frution either by natural industry standardization or NHRA/SFI mandated acceptance.

Once the industry gets past the initial teething stage many of the oil/debris containment devices developed since the mid-90's would be virtual overkill due to the reduction in carnage. However, most of the nitro tuners are intelligent enough to make this type of change with little struggle.

Reduced nitro consumption. Small per pass, but over the course of an entire season, very noticeable to the person signing checks to suppliers.

Increased life of chassis and driveline components.

LOWERED COST OF OPERATION!

We would be able to safely compete on a greater majority of current venues. No one, however, disagrees that major steps must be taken to fix any track with a shut-down area shorter than 2500'. And, if NHRA decides to keep those short tracks on the schedule they need to remain at 1000'...or even cut down to 1/8 mile.

One interesting idea passed by my ears over the weekend. Eliminating "national records" in TF, FC, PS, TAFC, and TAD and replacing them with track records instead. Reduce the points bonus from 20 to 10 and let each track decide if they will provide any kind of extra incentive for any true heads-up class racer that breaks a track record. I think it has some merit since we are going to be looking at wiping the books clean this winter.