turbo ken
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The NHRA is run by hacks!!!
Clay's "Disqualified" video (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter turbo ken
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I wouldn't call them hacks, I see both sides of this. A rule is a rule, but there are certain circumstances like a wheel stand where common sense needs to be applied. When a racer appeals a penalty, is it to a neutral 3rd party to review or is it the NHRA that has the final say?
the way clay read the rules, it seemed somewhat contradictory. shot bag disallowed, then in next paragraph it talks about the use of them.
i agree with clay, that there are parts failures all the time depositing parts onto racetrack, yet said car gets win and advances.
what is difference between a shot bag, a piece of body panel, a bolt, a parachute that comes off, or a wheel failure with car staying in lane.
i guess i would understand a DQ of that particular run, which would end clay's day, but the DQ and no points seems a bit over the top.
somehow this whole circus functions because of smart decisions made by the nhra, the track owners, the sponsors, and the racers.
a decision like this only leaves sour taste in mouth of a new owner and sponsors coming into sport......plus the dollars it cost the team.
i agree with clay, that there are parts failures all the time depositing parts onto racetrack, yet said car gets win and advances.
what is difference between a shot bag, a piece of body panel, a bolt, a parachute that comes off, or a wheel failure with car staying in lane.
i guess i would understand a DQ of that particular run, which would end clay's day, but the DQ and no points seems a bit over the top.
somehow this whole circus functions because of smart decisions made by the nhra, the track owners, the sponsors, and the racers.
a decision like this only leaves sour taste in mouth of a new owner and sponsors coming into sport......plus the dollars it cost the team.
Tough deal, but…
#1- Weight can NOT fall off a race car. Cars shake/pedal/wheelstand all the time and that’s not an excuse. If the “plug” came loose, there needs to be a better plug. I can think of 2 serious crashes caused by weight falling off top fuel cars. 1 was off their own car, the other hit a piece of weight sitting in the lights that had just fallen off another car. Can’t happen.
#2- When the loose weight was returned, there should have at least been a conversation that at least said “Hey, this breaks rule X, there is going to be a penalty TBA…” just to let them know something was coming. An e-mail that late is kind of a bad deal. Just some recent rules infractions from some of the funny cars with headers, as well as with the team Elite PS cars were all known pretty quick. I don’t disagree with the penalty however. Just needed better and a more timely delivery.
#3 Unfortunate how this news kinda lingered out. Millican and team were completely and falsely thrown under the bus on a podcast which had some very inaccurate information. That kind of stuff shouldn’t happen. Not fair to Rick, Clay or anybody on the team.
#1- Weight can NOT fall off a race car. Cars shake/pedal/wheelstand all the time and that’s not an excuse. If the “plug” came loose, there needs to be a better plug. I can think of 2 serious crashes caused by weight falling off top fuel cars. 1 was off their own car, the other hit a piece of weight sitting in the lights that had just fallen off another car. Can’t happen.
#2- When the loose weight was returned, there should have at least been a conversation that at least said “Hey, this breaks rule X, there is going to be a penalty TBA…” just to let them know something was coming. An e-mail that late is kind of a bad deal. Just some recent rules infractions from some of the funny cars with headers, as well as with the team Elite PS cars were all known pretty quick. I don’t disagree with the penalty however. Just needed better and a more timely delivery.
#3 Unfortunate how this news kinda lingered out. Millican and team were completely and falsely thrown under the bus on a podcast which had some very inaccurate information. That kind of stuff shouldn’t happen. Not fair to Rick, Clay or anybody on the team.
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I once picked a 20 lb. weight bar that was on the track in the lights in my parachute. I know it was bolted on the right way 3/8 bolts-2 of them because it came of my own car - surprise - surprise.
drag racer
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The rule was broken, and NHRA embarrassed themselves yet again with the way it was handled. My deeper concern was reading the comment from one of his former crewmembers - spoke of inequity behind the scenes depending on WHO commits an infraction determines how it is handled. Hearing reports of that kind of BS makes me hope the PRO big money races grow and grow and put some heat on the empty suits in Glendora, I mean San Dimas...
in '22 tony schumacher was fined $20k and lost 50 points for a double safety systems infraction at pre-C BIR race.
clay fined $5k and loses all points in a '23 C race. ..... only comparing two events about a year apart, if a comparison can be made......couple of articles.
dragillustrated.com
dragillustrated.com
clay fined $5k and loses all points in a '23 C race. ..... only comparing two events about a year apart, if a comparison can be made......couple of articles.
The Ongoing Disqualified Passes in the NHRA: A Breakdown on Failed Tech Inspections and Reactions to the Lack of Communication | Drag Illustrated | Drag Racing News, Opinion, Interviews, Photos, Videos and More
The NHRA Nevada Nationals proved to be an event that got people talking. However, the chatter isn’t about which driver won the race, personal bests at The Strip at Las Vegas Motor Speedway or who’s going to win the season-ending championships. The talk is about the series of disqualified runs...
dragillustrated.com
The Controversial Disqualification of Clay Millican: A Deeper Look into NHRA’s Ruling and its Implications | Drag Illustrated | Drag Racing News, Opinion, Interviews, Photos, Videos and More
Clay Millican's disqualification at the Texas NHRA FallNationals in October 2023 left many questions unanswered. The incident, marked by contradictions in the NHRA rule book and the delayed notification of the ruling, has raised critical questions about the rule itself and how the...
dragillustrated.com
in 2018 matt hagan and robert hight had double blow-ups shredding both bodies at finish line of round 2 FC gatornationals.
parts by both racers were deposited onto the racing surface as a result of their engines failing. parts and pieces shattered and flew everywhere.
would those parts and pieces have not shattered and flown everywhere if engines had not failed? was there an intent to cheat when the parts and pieces
flew everywhere as a result of this double on-track incident? matt's win stood, and he went onto win the semi-finals. all he lost was 5 points.
....... DRC copy/paste from that round
This was a strange one. Hagan gets the advantage of the line but Hight gets around him before they reach the sixty foot mark. Hight staysin front to the 660 foot mark, then the engine explodes sending the body flying into the air. Hagan gets around him and just before the finish line his engine explodes sending the body into the air. Hight crosses over into the right lane behind Hagan, then he steers it back over to the left and brings it to a stop. Hagan gets out of the car and all he wants to know is "Did we win?".
Matt Hagan's incremental margins (negative if behind): 60ft(-0.009), 330 ft(-0.003), 660ft(-0.002).MOV: 0.0474 seconds (approximately 18 feet).
Matt Hagan was charged with an oildown, #1 for the season. That will cost 5 points and $1K.
Hight will be charged with crossing the centerline and will be charged 5 points.
parts by both racers were deposited onto the racing surface as a result of their engines failing. parts and pieces shattered and flew everywhere.
would those parts and pieces have not shattered and flown everywhere if engines had not failed? was there an intent to cheat when the parts and pieces
flew everywhere as a result of this double on-track incident? matt's win stood, and he went onto win the semi-finals. all he lost was 5 points.
....... DRC copy/paste from that round
This was a strange one. Hagan gets the advantage of the line but Hight gets around him before they reach the sixty foot mark. Hight staysin front to the 660 foot mark, then the engine explodes sending the body flying into the air. Hagan gets around him and just before the finish line his engine explodes sending the body into the air. Hight crosses over into the right lane behind Hagan, then he steers it back over to the left and brings it to a stop. Hagan gets out of the car and all he wants to know is "Did we win?".
Matt Hagan's incremental margins (negative if behind): 60ft(-0.009), 330 ft(-0.003), 660ft(-0.002).MOV: 0.0474 seconds (approximately 18 feet).
Matt Hagan was charged with an oildown, #1 for the season. That will cost 5 points and $1K.
Hight will be charged with crossing the centerline and will be charged 5 points.
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that would be considered an incident out of control of the team or driver so no penalty unless there is an oil down which was penalized.
Bobby Bennett
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We had questioned why it happened six days after the fact, back in October -
competitionplus.com
MILLICAN DISQUALIFIED FROM NHRA FALL NATIONALS EVENT, SIX DAYS AFTER THE FACT | Competition Plus
Let the record reflect: Clay Millican wasn't angry he was disqualified from the NHRA FallNationals for having unsecured ballast on his Top Fuel dragster. After all, in his world, rules are rules, and he was taught as a kid growing up in Drummonds, Tenn., to play by the rules. Drag Racing fans...
65 Goatboy
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In Nascar it's supposedly a neutral third party group of people who are not currently affiliated with Nascar. Some used to be and some never have. My guess is Nhra is nothing like that. I think Nhra is currently "asleep at the wheel". I also see both sides but why was Clay's team penalized for the entire race weekend and not just the one run where the infraction occured? Nhra is not Nascar. They followed the rule book as it's written as Clay pointed out and after a on track incident they suddenly broke the rules. Nhra is not being transparent like Nascar currently is. Would hate to see RWR pull out of Nhra, they already have too many short fields.
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Tony
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Clay is wrong, there is NO contradiction in the rules. Go back to 2:00 - The NHRA rule states that LOOSE shot bags are not allowed, all ballast must be PERMANENTLY ATTACHED. Go to 3:10 - shot bags are allowed if they are contained INSIDE AN APPROPRATELY ATTACHED weight box. He admitted that the shot bag fell from the car as the front wheels came off the ground and a plug fell out, indicating the shot bag WAS NOT properly secured. The team violated a SAFETY rule. As far as stating that ANY other motorsport sanctioning body would be quicker to announce a penalty, that is ridiculous assumption made by Clay. If RWR doesn't agree with the NHRA rules, they don't have to participate.
So you think 6 days is ok?
Is there a stipulation in the rules that they are allowed if they are inside a sealed secure container and how that it is mounted and what is made out of
turbo ken
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The secured container is the tube that also holds the front wing to the chassis, the tow strap hook is removeable so the weight can be put in.
Attachments
My opinion is that there WAS an infraction - but I compare it to a common NFL penalty - roughing the kicker vs. running into the kicker. There's a difference and there's a penalty difference. Millican's team wasn't trying to circumvent the rules; there was no intentional shortcuts or shoddy workmanship but the fact remains - the ballast wound up on the track surface because it wasn't secured well enough to stay put following a 3 foot power wheelstand. Clay kept saying "we broke the rule, but...". I don't see it that way. What 'rule' did he break? Paragraph 1 said 'no shot ballast'; paragraph 2 said 'shot ballast'. A mounting mistake, perhaps, but not a rule violation which implies it was intentional in order to gain some sort of advantage.
That being the case in my opinon, my beef is with the with the severity of the punishment. At the most, Clay should have been fined, say, $2500 for an unintentional violation but NO points - with notification of the violation and fine no later than Monday morning post-race and the whole affair cost him 10X or more than what NHRA fined him. Nonetheless, Clay's a great racer; a great ambassador for the sport and he'll be good to go for 2024.
But this wasn't right.
That being the case in my opinon, my beef is with the with the severity of the punishment. At the most, Clay should have been fined, say, $2500 for an unintentional violation but NO points - with notification of the violation and fine no later than Monday morning post-race and the whole affair cost him 10X or more than what NHRA fined him. Nonetheless, Clay's a great racer; a great ambassador for the sport and he'll be good to go for 2024.
But this wasn't right.
the shot bag falling out was unintentional, and was housed in part of the frame that failed to contain the bag......i'm gonna' guess this is not the first time
a shot bag has been placed in this exact location on a TF frame, by whomever........levy a fine for breaking a rule. DQ the run ending the team's day.
set a precedent and clear up any and all ambiguity regarding ballast. review the rulebook and amend accordingly.
there was no intention to cheat, only to tune via weighting the front end while racing under optimal track conditions.
IMO the late notice via email was very tacky, and loss of all points for the event was too severe. just one guy's opinion.
a shot bag has been placed in this exact location on a TF frame, by whomever........levy a fine for breaking a rule. DQ the run ending the team's day.
set a precedent and clear up any and all ambiguity regarding ballast. review the rulebook and amend accordingly.
there was no intention to cheat, only to tune via weighting the front end while racing under optimal track conditions.
IMO the late notice via email was very tacky, and loss of all points for the event was too severe. just one guy's opinion.
Seems to me they were within the rules until the failure occurred that allowed the bag to come out.
How’s that any different than any other incident that puts debris on the track that was otherwise within the rules until something failed?
How’s that any different than any other incident that puts debris on the track that was otherwise within the rules until something failed?
Comparing this to engine damage is apples and oranges.
There is no rule that if you blow the blower off you get a penalty.
Like I said in my above post, it’s 100% a safety thing and has caused accidents in the past. Intent does not matter, the penalty is clearly laid out in the rule book. DQ from the event. The timing sucked yes, but it’s in the 2023 Rulebook for all to read. If not contained in the weight box, a shot bag is considered “loose ballast”, and a bag of it laying on the track fits the description to me. If your system failed due to shake/rattle/pedal doesn’t matter. That happens all the time. There can’t be any leeway, because then it becomes a judgement call on what/how/why. There is no grey area here in my opinion.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Clay, the team, the progression it’s made from Doug Stringer to Rick Ware, all that stuff. Just an unfortunate deal.
There is no rule that if you blow the blower off you get a penalty.
Like I said in my above post, it’s 100% a safety thing and has caused accidents in the past. Intent does not matter, the penalty is clearly laid out in the rule book. DQ from the event. The timing sucked yes, but it’s in the 2023 Rulebook for all to read. If not contained in the weight box, a shot bag is considered “loose ballast”, and a bag of it laying on the track fits the description to me. If your system failed due to shake/rattle/pedal doesn’t matter. That happens all the time. There can’t be any leeway, because then it becomes a judgement call on what/how/why. There is no grey area here in my opinion.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Clay, the team, the progression it’s made from Doug Stringer to Rick Ware, all that stuff. Just an unfortunate deal.
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