Baca talks about Cost of Racing (1 Viewer)

[ricko999™]

It is an eye opening article, and it's interesting to see that nearly 1 million of Baca's 3 million budget is for salaries,lodging, and food.
Salaries are like asking how long something is...so what are established crew chiefs and crew person(s) making per year? Team paid health insurance? 401K? and or bonus based salaries???

 

[Toejam]

That is a good article. It really gives the fan a view into the cost's of racing today. There's two things that it left me wondering though. What is today's cost compared to recent years - say 2000 & 2003? Also, where do they see the biggest cost increases coming in the next 3-6 years? Fuel, parts, salary/benefits? That would make for a fascinating read on the economics of racing. Maybe they'll do a follow up?

I can you one thing that cost more is the 85% rule! I've heard from more than one crewchief that rule alone costs close to an additional $75-100,000 per year give or take.....

They're running so much static compression they're Hammerin the Rods out of em!

 

[rocketman]

"Total complete Top Alcohol engine assembly: $70,254 plus almost 8% sales tax here in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia = $5,620 for a grand total of $75,874 less shipping and handling. Some assembly required."

After reading Mr. Goodwin's list I realize how lucky I am just to have been able to run in the sixes. We race on a fraction of that. There needs to be a blown big block dragster class heads up!

 

[Toejam]

After reading Mr. Goodwin's list I realize how lucky I am just to have been able to run in the sixes. We race on a fraction of that. There needs to be a blown big block dragster class heads up!

That's why Top Comp has grown like it has Rich. You can run low 7's or High 6's in your case for Far less than say an A/Dragster.

 

[Thrill]

difference

this helps people see the biggest separation from the alky ranks is personel costs.

granted there is a bigger chunk on parts, etc., but it's not all there.

more people, more costs. most alky crews are predominantly volunteer for expenses. more and more alky teams stay at the track in motorhomes...

i pretty much live on the road now helping keep our tafc going. it's 4 hrs from the house. for every race weekend, there is at least one, if not two off weekends worth of work to do.

 

[Rajunz]

Some addictions are more expensive than others...

Took the words right out of my mouth!

Everyone on the Mater seems to dog NHRA for every move they make, but they have made alot of effort to contain the costs of the Pro Classes in recent years.

This will really open your eyes, when you consider their costs to be competitive, their purses don't seem so large afterall:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2006-10-02-owner-costs_x.htm

 

[rocketman]

Noise-
When Top Comp started the blown guys were dancing in the streets! Then they found out that the rules were written for Super Comp cars and most backed away.

We knew that going in but as the class got faster we had to make the move to blown from injection to stay in the show. We have been pretty consistant lately but the carborator guys we are racing have run right on their dial-in. I'm not complaining carborated cars are just a lot more consistant. But racing a blown car is what I've always wanted to do. And because I don't have the big bucks this is the only class I can race in. We did race in the Pro Alcohol Dragster class in Spokane and qualified second on Friday but slipped to fourth when some legit NHRA Top Alcohol cars rolled into town Saturday. Still we had a ball and walked away with some good money and no broken parts. I'd much rather race a deal like that than race in Top Comp.

A few months a go I was visiting with a track promoter (NOT Jim Livingston) who told me a high six second blown dragster class would revitalize tracks that are now forced to run only ET bracket racing due to the cost of bringing in Top Alcohol cars. So we're trying to get a Pro Comp style program together. you can see our idea at www.capracing.com.

 

[Baron]

You are right on the money, Rich!
Your Pro/Comp proposal is very similar to an idea I had after reviewing the struggles many tracks have to get front gate (i.e. spectators) at their events. I like your approach better than my own. The e.t. limit also helps in cases in which tracks have limited shut-off distance.
I also like it because it allows racers to adapt from existing, successful series such as CIFCA and Southwest Superchargers.
There is another organization which uses a similar format, with similar e.t. breaks, using the Pro/Comp mixture. They, however, use different e.t. breaks for adaptibility to each track's needs and, thus, attract several levels of competitors. I believe they use 6.80, 7.50, and 7.90 as standards, each level having a different name. Theirs is a good approach, but they do not allow rear engine dragsters as they are trying to give their events a nostalgic feel.
Best of luck to you in the Northwest.
Cheers,
Ed

 

[rocketman]

Thanks Ed. The promoter that I was refering to actually envisioned a class for dragsters and a class for funny cars. Right now there aren't enough of both to do that but everyone loved ProComp and it's open to everything blown or injected. Wewant to stay away from carbs so it's not like Top Comp.

This other group your refering to makes sense and the ET would change on an eighth mile track. I'll post this in a seperate thread to see what kind of feed back we get.

 

[JL]

Rich, I think there is room forboth. I think some people are tired of throttle stop racing, therefore Top Comp is a great choice. I run a 555' powered car with a carb that can get under the 8.19 even in the heat, but when the fields are full, I don't have much of a chance.

I love butt haulin' bracket racing. I think it is where it is at. I also think that it is bringing some revitalization to bracket racing.

I hope you do get this going. I would dream to race in the 6's, love to watch it as a spectator and as an announcer, I would be licking my chops to talk about it.

 

[rocketman]

Don't get me wrong Justin, I'm not against super comp style cars. I have friends that race them and that's where I came from. But I do think that class is on it's way out. It was a great class a few years ago and now thanks to the electronics and the high HP engines it's a big time train wreck and everyone knows it. It's Ground Hogs day.

As far a racing a carberated car in Top Comp that's fine I expect that to be the case. But they should have really limited the electronics at the get go. I knew several blown guys all lined up ready to race the class but chose not to due to the electronics. Which is where the issues have always been in drag racing. I don't use a cross over and I shift the car by hand.

As far as what your doing like I said I was their too. My goal was to always race a blown car but to be honest I wasn't sure it was ever going to happen. But thanks to my friend and partner Art Mendoza, I'm doing it, So Justin, never say never. Keep doing what your doing.

 

[Nunz]

Lance, that was a great article. Seems like the Cup cars are headed in the direction of F1. Those are some huge numbers that they are talking about, and it sounds like they are going to continue to climb. That's why it's silly for people to point at what the lowest placing Cup cars earn per race--look what it takes to put a car on the track!!

 

[Crash]

I'm not against super comp style cars. I have friends that race them and that's where I came from. But I do think that class is on it's way out. It was a great class a few years ago and now thanks to the electronics and the high HP engines it's a big time train wreck and everyone knows it.

Wow! that is the fastest quote and contradiction I have read in a long time...

Anyhow, I like the idea of a balls-out class of any type, but the biggest obstacle will always be the rich guy that will spend whatever it takes to win, and pretty soon it is just like Comp, $50k+ motors, spares, etc. Pro Mod, at one time, was a relatively affordable class compared to what it is now.

 

[Thrill]

pro comp

rich -

re: your procomp 6.90 index idea.

i've toyed with the idea of a less expensive booked in show. before i start...i know you're talking index racing.

it's very, very difficult to create and maintain the proverbial 'affordable' heads up class. heads up racing is inherently expensive. even if you get a group of cars together that all have the right attitude, roughly same rules...run about the same...it doesn't take long for someone to come in with a bunch of money, brand new technology, or twist the rules to the max. hence using a budget advantage to win.

sometimes these created series have potential, but create rules that are too strict to keep the above out and/or are created around a particular racer's (usually the organizer) combination. there are a lot of old alcohol cars out there collecting dust because there's no place to race them. however many heads up classes (open wheel variety) put various rules in place like self start, torque converter, etc. to keep the top alky guys out...when really they're keeping more potential cars on their level from racing with them. as i told one local quick 8 guy here...instead of 'self start, center steer' you just outlaw the PSI D blower. that way if someone has an old alky car with outdated alky parts, he can go run. when i've booked and attempted to book alky shows...you'd be surprised the calls i get from guys with outdated combos looking for a place to race.

then you have the show and expectations you have to meet. one of the reasons in this neck of the country alky cars don't get booked in much is the fact they run a lot of outlaw pro mod races. those guys come in with an 8 car field and run low 4's in the 1/8 for 8 to 10k. so if you have a funny car or dragster, you're expected to run quicker. some funny cars can't run that quick on some of these tracks, and the ones that can can't run that hard for that kind of money....so it really odd man out's the match racing for alky cars.

on about even money with the pro mod shows are outlaw 10.5 shows. these 'somewhat' street legal type cars on small tires run in the mid 4's, but appeal to that crowd. they can get away with the slower times due to the 'expectations' for a smaller tire. even cheaper are the 'true 10.5' shows (the tire really is 10.5) and they are in the high 4's low 5's.

what makes dragsters entertaining to watch is they're fast. they're purpose built to haul ass. if top fuel dragsters were slower than funny cars, i doubt they would have near the fan appeal. so when putting together a show that's going to be front gate driven envolving dragsters it's got to be fast. going fast without fast payout...well that's hard.

i put together a sample set of rules a few years back - aimed at getting old alky cars out of the corners of shops...a loose knit set of rules aimed at the low 4 second zone. i had it set up where you could run top alky configurations with limitations...ie...way down on the overdrive on psi, one mag a/f...that type of stuff. you got to be loose with the rules to get it going...get enough cars to put on a show, then as racers want to support the series, you're going to have to tighten down. to a degree rule by dictatorship or association to keep a high roller from ruining something good. i told one interested racer that had a whipple to bring plenty of pulleys if we did this...because if he got out in front, rules changes would be proactive.

i never got a chance to get it off the ground. maybe i'll get some time this offseason to organize something. now that i got the tafc to run, i don't have as much time to do the promoting stuff.

index racing can circumvent the rules problem and keeping budget from leveraging your competitiveness. however, getting an index class to bring a crowd can be a challenge. not to say it can't be done. index racing is index racing is index racing anyway you slice it. it doesn't have that fundamental attraction to the fan...the contest of speed...guy who gets there first and fastest wins.

if you do get this going...you may need to consider a sandbagging rule....for safety. stripe driving is a fact of life with an index and so is dumping....dumping a 6.90 car can be dangerous.

just a long-winded collection of thoughts. good luck, and email me if you want to discuss it more.