ARE things better "Over There???"

[TJ]

David...Look @ the Treasury dept fiscal budgets and you can see the borrowing...it's how the tax cuts are accomplished...We borrowed 3.7 billion and will pay em back 12 billion in Nov 08...interesting as all the borrowed money will be paid back for a new President to fix as that debt, the payback, will be ours...The Chinese is our biggest lender, followed by Japan and South Korea...

 

[Toejam]

Joe...I understand what you are thinking but in hindsight our current debt is in the trillions....how is that paid back? We have borrowed money from Mexico, and a few other third world countries for our administrations spending habits..It would take every American citizen to write a check for $29,500 to balance it out to zero..I think that would more than cover health care...
Our current Presidents legacy will be the debt he leaves behind for someone else to fix...We have our problems but it's the best deal on earth...IMO

Terry if you think ANY Politician plans on paying down the natl. debt, it won't happen in our lifetime! The fact of the matter is; to pay for Socialized Healthcare would easily cost as much as Social security does now. And that's over $600 Billion per year!

 

[TJ]

Joe...The national debt was almost zero towards the end of Bush Sr term and Clinton had a zero balance w/in three years after he took office...Clinton gave Bush jr a credit w/ zero balance...
It is unfortunate but a republican president has NEVER had a balanced budget in all of history....Kind of strange as they preach about the other party giving money away to freeloaders...
Currently I feel neither party is doing anything positive for the American people today...

 

[Kelly]

Well, I don't give a crap where anyone's 'from'....


Chris, you and Becky are cool as hell and I thoroughly enjoyed spending time with y'all!

 

[vegasnitro]

Joe...The national debt was almost zero towards the end of Bush Sr term and Clinton had a zero balance w/in three years after he took office...Clinton gave Bush jr a credit w/ zero balance...
It is unfortunate but a republican president has NEVER had a balanced budget in all of history....Kind of strange as they preach about the other party giving money away to freeloaders...
Currently I feel neither party is doing anything positive for the American people today...

Uhhhh .... Bill Clinton had a balanced one year fiscal budget, but the national debt has been into the trillions my entire lifetime.

And Richard Nixon (Republican) was the last President before Clinton to have a 1 year balanced fiscal budget.

I will agree with you that neither party is looking out for America in general.

 

[Toejam]

Chris is right, the Federal deficit is at a 5 year low of 147 Bil. from $420 bil. after Operation secure freedom got under way in '03. The Natl. debt is gotta be about 6-7 Trillion right about now, and there isn't a politician in Washington that can do anything about it!

 

[Rexfiles]

Strangely enough Rex you obviously didn't go to the BBC Homepage, but the BBC News homepage if you would like to be pedantic. Its funny that the BBC News homepage suppied to us here carries 20 headline stories today, not one of which is about the US and only two of which are "world" stories, which is quite a poor percentage for the BBC. The nearest a US story gets to a headline is Hillary topping the campaign funds list about 3/4 of the way down the page in a tiny byline, which is the only US story on the homepage.

Did you ever think that the BBC being a worldwide broadcaster, that they may have tracked your IP and given you a US biased news feed? Or would that be more clever than you'd expect for anyone non-american?

And believe me I don't need a sense of humour transplant, but I am sick and tired of the racial stereotyping on this board. Just because a few people decide they don't like what Hutchinson has to say (most of the time I don't either, but John has his problems and we really just should leave him to it) does not mean that I or the other UK members should have to put up with what is simply racist slurs by those who haven't the intelligence to express themselves in a more well informed and appropriate manner.

How come I can admit that life in the UK has its pro's and cons much like life in the US does and that to be honest I'd be happy to live in either political and economic climate, whereas it seems others are just living in their own little bubble where no-one further than the people they meet everyday and the freakshows they see on TV actually exist and anything other than their little world is simply "WRONG".

Whether I agree with what Hutchinson writes or not (mainly not), the things he calls to attention are more than often based on fact however sometimes misleading, but are therefore open for discussion, whereas it seems there's a lot of "Your Momma" coming back in return aimed at the UK. Criticisism based on fact is not a problem, as with Joe's question I explained the real situation with the NHS where I would rather pay the Taxes and have the government/public funded alternative even though at times it could be a better service, but I can also see why others would criticise and prefer the US system. I don't see this as a "dig" at me or my country or an attack in any way, but simply a critisism of one system opposed to another, in which there is no harm. Same applies to the gun debate, but as was seen, some haven't the intelligence to be able debate without throwing racial slurs.

I really don't know how to tell you this Chris..........but..........here goes anyway.

i...................do.................not...................care

Thank God you think so Matt, at least we won't have to put up with you visiting anytime in the near future.

I cannot speak for Matt..........but I am sure he must be shattered

REX

 

[Rexfiles]

You're contradicting yourself - how can it be expensive if it's free?

What saddens me (and makes me angry) is when I see grieving parents of someone who died because their HMO denied covering the cost of a life-saving procedure saying "it was too experimental." Or people being denied insurance at all because they've had a previous heart attack, or because their body mass index is too high (I think the BMI is bullshit anyway). You don't see that in places where a universal health care system is in place.

You have been watching too many George Clooney, Julia Roberts, Matt Damion, and their ilk...........movies

REX

 

[vegasnitro]

My grandpa (a veteran of WW2 stationed in England pre-DDay) used to say never underestimate the British ... "That little island hasn't been conquered since 1066".

I think what you need to remember Chris Parker is that just like John Hutchinson's views cannot be considered representative of the British populace's as a whole, neither can the views of some of the posters of this board be considered as representative of the American populace's as a whole. Xenophobia has been a general American trait since long before we dumped tea into Boston Harbor.

Unfortunately, all most people know of British Dental Health is what they see perpetuated in movies like Austin Powers (Mike Myers is a Canadian by the way).

When I moved out west from Kentucky people made fun of my accent and made jokes like they couldn't believe I was wearing shoes, but I chose not to let them drag me down to their level where they could beat me with experience.

 

[Stroker]

The horror!
Been there many years ago.
Like I said, nothing interesting enough for a return trip.
No worries.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Chris, you know where those "waiting list figures" come from? Republicans who want to feed into the hands of the devils known as the HMOs. For one thing, in your country and in Canada you'll never hear of a patient getting denied a life-saving treatment because "it's too experimental" or "effects the bottom line too much."

I had a total hip replacement, all pre-op processes, 9 days in rehab, two weeks of in house physical therapy, and a month of out patient physical therapy 3 times a week and all it cost was a $10 copayment for the outpatient PT.

My insurance? An HMO. Cigna

BTW.... I received the hospital bill by mistake. Three days - $15,600.

Maybe you should get your facts straight Sam, before you post. But wait! You've been told that numerous times.

 

[Rexfiles]

I am self employed.

My Wife quit her job back in May to help with my Mom as she recovered from some serious health issues this past Winter/Spring.

I had to add her to my healthcare policy, so for both of us I am paying close to $600. per month.

I am 52, she is 44, and we both don't smoke, our weight is within reason, and we don't drink at all. Pretty much we are in decent health.

I make consessions to pay that money. I don't have the newest truck, big house, $50K SUV......I work hard to provide.

First for me, then for her, as MY health as primary breadwinner benefits her greatly.

It's called RESPONSIBILITY!!

I don't bitch and whine about the cost, I sacrifice some stuff I'd like to do to pay it.

A lot here in the US that do not have insurance could afford insurance if they wanted, however their lifestyles and entertainment unfortunately come first.

I offer insurance to any employee that comes through my door if they last for 90 days (probationary period). They would be paying half, probably around $150. per month.

I only had one want it and that was in 1986

And BTW, in Connecticut, if you go to a hospital, they HAVE to treat you. $$$ or no $$$.

I understand some really need the help, but a lot just don't give a rats ass, especially the young'uns.

REX

 

[vegasnitro]

I am self employed.

My Wife quit her job back in May to help with my Mom as she recovered from some serious health issues this past Winter/Spring.

I had to add her to my healthcare policy, so for both of us I am paying close to $600. per month.

I am 52, she is 44, and we both don't smoke, our weight is within reason, and we don't drink at all. Pretty much we are in decent health.

I make consessions to pay that money. I don't have the newest truck, big house, $50K SUV......I work hard to provide.

First for me, then for her, as MY health as primary breadwinner benefits her greatly.

It's called RESPONSIBILITY!!

I don't bitch and whine about the cost, I sacrifice some stuff I'd like to do to pay it.

A lot here in the US that do not have insurance could afford insurance if they wanted, however their lifestyles and entertainment unfortunately come first.

I offer insurance to any employee that comes through my door if they last for 90 days (probationary period). They would be paying half, probably around $150. per month.

I only had one want it and that was in 1986

And BTW, in Connecticut, if you go to a hospital, they HAVE to treat you. $$$ or no $$$.

I understand some really need the help, but a lot just don't give a rats ass, especially the young'uns.

REX

Very well said Rex. The place where I work the health insurance is optional, and your hourly wage is $1.50 higher if you do not take the insurance. More than half refuse the insurance. Not me. I took the insurance. AND it is an HMO thru Aetna.

In Nevada they have to treat you at a hospital as well, BUT if you do not have insurance they are still going to send you bills and when you don't pay them, they are going to destroy your credit.

 

[HEMI6point1]

I had a total hip replacement, all pre-op processes, 9 days in rehab, two weeks of in house physical therapy, and a month of out patient physical therapy 3 times a week and all it cost was a $10 copayment for the outpatient PT.

My insurance? An HMO. Cigna

BTW.... I received the hospital bill by mistake. Three days - $15,600.

Maybe you should get your facts straight Sam, before you post. But wait! You've been told that numerous times.

Jackee, of course your HMO would cover something like that because it's a common thing. BTW sorry about your hip.

But what if a person needed a radical new treatment that has rarely been done before to save his/her life and cost $100,000? I am willing to bet my car on it that 9 out of 10 HMOs would deny covering it with the excuse of "it's too experimental" or "it's too costly" or "it's too rare."

And just so you know, I firmly believe if an HMO denies a treatment that directly leads to a death of a person, they should not only be able to be sued, but should also be charged with murder.

 

[HEMI6point1]

Samuel you are so naive, it's NOT FREE! The taxes you and I will be soaked to support this system will be enormous! You think social security's in trouble, wait till we get stuck in this Mess!

The people in Britain and Canada seem to be doing just fine....

 

[Rexfiles]

Very well said Rex. The place where I work the health insurance is optional, and your hourly wage is $1.50 higher if you do not take the insurance. More than half refuse the insurance. Not me. I took the insurance. AND it is an HMO thru Aetna.

In Nevada they have to treat you at a hospital as well, BUT if you do not have insurance they are still going to send you bills and when you don't pay them, they are going to destroy your credit.

Unfortunately many uninsured that go here don't own a home or care one way or the other about credit. That kills it for the rest of us.

You are smart to take that insurance. A buck fifty is peanuts compared to a weeks stay in a hospital.

I also have long (lifetime) care disability insurance.
$100. a month but I get 75K a year if I cannot work.

I don't want to be a burden on my loved ones if I cannot pay my own way.

REX

 

[Rexfiles]

The people in Britain and Canada seem to be doing just fine....

DO NOT...............Be so sure...............

REX

 

[TJ]

Sam...The healthcare system in those mentioned countries are great for basic maintenance/colds/etc...But for major situations most Canadians/Europeans come to the U.S. for their procedures..

On the HMO subject...They suck for life threatning problems like cancer, brain tumors, etc..
We now live in a State where there are no HMO's only PPO's and it is awesome...a few more dollars each month but no lengthy protocol for any treatment...

And Rex..Glad to see you have LTD plan but those are rarely profitable unless you are in a coma or catatonic (sp ck) as once a M.D. declares you P & S from an injury the Insurance underwriter will demand you get a job even if it only pays minumim wage..But they are good to have in pocket 'in case'...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

The people in Britain and Canada seem to be doing just fine....

Sam, Sam, Sam, you talk better than you hear. It's typical of youngsters and some will call it immaturity or even ignorance. Keep in mind ignorance is not a bad thing since it's 100% curable. You have been given very good advice & examples to which you should listen. Your statement above was absolutely ignorant. Socialized medicine is downright disastrous. I have neighbors who come from Canada to receive their medical treatment here in Phoenix. I'll give you an example why.

Phoenix, where I live, is one of the larger metropolitan cities and when the entire country of Canada received their first MRI machine (totally necessary to determine damage in soft tissue) Phoenix alone already had approximately 6 of them in operation. There were hundreds of them in operation in the U.S. This statistic is coinciding with most other high tech medical equipment and treatments. They are light years behind our medical health and it's getting worse year after year. The time frame for you to schedule Jackee's hip replacement would astound you. The waiting list is enormous and it would months if not a year to have such a non-urgent procedure done. I can schedule one here in Phoenix from well over 100 doctors at any one of dozens of hospitals within a week. I guarantee it's not like socialized medicine.

 

[Rexfiles]

Sam...The healthcare system in those mentioned countries are great for basic maintenance/colds/etc...But for major situations most Canadians/Europeans come to the U.S. for their procedures..

On the HMO subject...They suck for life threatning problems like cancer, brain tumors, etc..
We now live in a State where there are no HMO's only PPO's and it is awesome...a few more dollars each month but no lengthy protocol for any treatment...

And Rex..Glad to see you have LTD plan but those are rarely profitable unless you are in a coma or catatonic (sp ck) as once a M.D. declares you P & S from an injury the Insurance underwriter will demand you get a job even if it only pays minumim wage..But they are good to have in pocket 'in case'...

Those that know me will tell you I am catatonic ofte...................................................................................................................................n

I figure its worth it just in case of actual total disability.

I figured that no matter what I could still work in some capacity (consious)

I used to work in chronic care and a lot of the people there had little cottage industries they ran from their beds or wheelchairs.

Of course the pity pot ones pretty much just sat there, but they were few and far between.

Working there for 5 years (LPN) gave me quite a bit of inspiration that it COULD be done

REX