The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
Don't forget the newest FC team owner! John Paul Dejoria reportedly has a Gulfstream 5. Used to fly with Ray in McDonald's Gulfstream - they are VERY nice planes.
Air Planes (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dragracer
- Start date
Gregg Pickens
Nitro Member
It's not just Pro's who have their own planes. Some Sportsman Racers have them too.
So true. Private jet vilification is just one of the factors that put me in the unemployment line.
Nemo
Nitro Member
Don't usually talk politics on message boards, especially race ones...but will throw my hat in here....as far as the tax break thing goes, and this is just my opinion...their should not be one.....and I live in Wichita Ks where Cessna, Beach, Lear, and Boeing are all made. My wife was a VP at Cessna for 12 years, my dad is still with Beach-craft and I have spent most my life around the industry. It's not a popular concept around here...but I think it's obstruction of capitalism (and pandering to those with the most money to lobby). It has nothing to do with taxing the rich, it's being fair (I'm ok with cutting the tax on personal aircraft as long as it's cut on cars, and yada yada yada....we all pay or nobody pays...I don't care).
For these ultra rich (and ultra important people) their time is worth money, and in their cases having their own plane makes great since. If it didn't they would not own one tax break or not....therefore no reason for a tax break. Having a car makes me much more productive than walking everywhere so I own a car even though it cost money in upkeep and fuel and I get no tax break. Same for these guys, if not having to sit in a airport for commercial flight delays and being groped by TSA makes them more productive (and more money) then they will (and should) buy a plane even if they don't get a tax break....thats the way capitalism is supposed to work.
I understand the vilification thing as well, my wife left Cessna in part due to that and their reaction. These CEO's, instead of coming out and saying "yea we flew here looking for a handout, but it would be financially disastrous to fly commercial to everything we need to do" then SHOW how it is cheaper to back up their point, but they just tucked their tails...and most likely would not "show" how it saves them money since it would probably show how the waisted tons of money on other bad decisions they made. I don't feel that was the downfall anyway, so few companies actually canceled their orders for planes (at least with Cessna) due "vilification" (although it became a easy politically charged excuse) but because they were hemorrhaging money due to the drastic downturn in the economy (totally unrelated to business aircraft) and no longer could afford/need a plane.
Beyond that, at least with Cessna (assume others were the same), Textron Finance was allowing people to buy "spots" in line to order their plane, then using those numbers as forecasted sales. Many of these people had no intentions of actually buying planes, instead they were in the business of selling spots in line. It worked like this, we'll say there is a 1 year lead time in buying a plane. Well your a smart guy with some startup capital, you buy a "spot" in line for your plane (that you don't want/need, or can really afford). Now a guy a few months down the line that really wants a plane doesn't want to wait contacts you, you sell him your spot (he pays you for your deposit plus a little "Extra") and you get his spot further back in line. In a few months you do it again each time making money. Maybe you buy a few "spots" in line and make more money. Now you have a large number of people doing this (and the system knew this was going on), but you can show that you have "X" amount of planes "purchased" to your stockholders and your company looks GREAT. But now the economy tanks, you have real owners backing out and these "spot" holders holding all these "planes" that they never had any intention of buying and nobody left to purchase their place in line so they bail on their deposit. Now you go from have "X" sold planes to considerably less all of a sudden and the company stock dives, they lay off tons and places like Wichita are where they are at now.
For these ultra rich (and ultra important people) their time is worth money, and in their cases having their own plane makes great since. If it didn't they would not own one tax break or not....therefore no reason for a tax break. Having a car makes me much more productive than walking everywhere so I own a car even though it cost money in upkeep and fuel and I get no tax break. Same for these guys, if not having to sit in a airport for commercial flight delays and being groped by TSA makes them more productive (and more money) then they will (and should) buy a plane even if they don't get a tax break....thats the way capitalism is supposed to work.
I understand the vilification thing as well, my wife left Cessna in part due to that and their reaction. These CEO's, instead of coming out and saying "yea we flew here looking for a handout, but it would be financially disastrous to fly commercial to everything we need to do" then SHOW how it is cheaper to back up their point, but they just tucked their tails...and most likely would not "show" how it saves them money since it would probably show how the waisted tons of money on other bad decisions they made. I don't feel that was the downfall anyway, so few companies actually canceled their orders for planes (at least with Cessna) due "vilification" (although it became a easy politically charged excuse) but because they were hemorrhaging money due to the drastic downturn in the economy (totally unrelated to business aircraft) and no longer could afford/need a plane.
Beyond that, at least with Cessna (assume others were the same), Textron Finance was allowing people to buy "spots" in line to order their plane, then using those numbers as forecasted sales. Many of these people had no intentions of actually buying planes, instead they were in the business of selling spots in line. It worked like this, we'll say there is a 1 year lead time in buying a plane. Well your a smart guy with some startup capital, you buy a "spot" in line for your plane (that you don't want/need, or can really afford). Now a guy a few months down the line that really wants a plane doesn't want to wait contacts you, you sell him your spot (he pays you for your deposit plus a little "Extra") and you get his spot further back in line. In a few months you do it again each time making money. Maybe you buy a few "spots" in line and make more money. Now you have a large number of people doing this (and the system knew this was going on), but you can show that you have "X" amount of planes "purchased" to your stockholders and your company looks GREAT. But now the economy tanks, you have real owners backing out and these "spot" holders holding all these "planes" that they never had any intention of buying and nobody left to purchase their place in line so they bail on their deposit. Now you go from have "X" sold planes to considerably less all of a sudden and the company stock dives, they lay off tons and places like Wichita are where they are at now.
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Dragracer
Nitro Member
I knew about most of these planes. John Paul does own a G5, maybe he lets Alexis use it. I wonder If some use Kalitta Charters which is owned by Doug, he has 25 Lear's, etc. Not to be confused with uncle Connie who ownes Kalitta Air Transport and ownes 22 747's.
How does Force get around as his business home is still Loma Linda, CA. I can't really see John flying commercial.
How does Force get around as his business home is still Loma Linda, CA. I can't really see John flying commercial.
d'kid
Nitro Member
I understand that John does fly commerical.
d'kid
Nitro Member
Jim
Nitro Member
This penalize the rich crap is just tring to capitalize on the politics of envy.
The overwhelming number of corporate jets are used for un-glamoorous business purposes. (How else can you get from Gopher Guts, AL to Podunk, TX and then to Wichita, KS in a day and get your work done?)
If the jet is being used for purely personal purposes, the tax laws insist that such use is treated as personal income/expense. Public companies have to be especially scrupulous about this - private companies? MAYBE? not so much. Enforce the current laws if they're not being followed. We don't need tax laws to be any more complicated.
Sorry if this seeems too polical - meant to be neutral but.... delete if not OK.
The overwhelming number of corporate jets are used for un-glamoorous business purposes. (How else can you get from Gopher Guts, AL to Podunk, TX and then to Wichita, KS in a day and get your work done?)
If the jet is being used for purely personal purposes, the tax laws insist that such use is treated as personal income/expense. Public companies have to be especially scrupulous about this - private companies? MAYBE? not so much. Enforce the current laws if they're not being followed. We don't need tax laws to be any more complicated.
Sorry if this seeems too polical - meant to be neutral but.... delete if not OK.
Bullet
Nitro Member
Oh, it's not by choice...... it's because we have seen you all running around the track on a scooter, and when you sit down on it the bottom of your pants hikes up and we can see the bottom of the fishnet stockings you have on under your pants....
Dragracer
Nitro Member
I would imagine that John Force on a commercial flight could be very interesting. Knowing that John really never comes down to what most of us call normal it would be very interesting sitting next to him on a 3-4 hour flight. I don't think you would be able to get any sleep. More peanuts, maybe.
StockersRock
Nitro Member
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Ahh....that's right!
mick
Nitro Member
as long as we're on the subject, someone emailed this to me today.
Air France Crash Book Shows Full Transcript of Pilot Confusion
Air France Crash Book Shows Full Transcript of Pilot Confusion
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