Will 5.00 Fuel Prices Hurt Racing Even More?

[The Counterfeiter]

Do ya know what you get when you ask ten economists a question? Ten different answers with a variance of plus or minus 200%.
The ex CEO of an oil company makes a wild-assed prediction and we have another Chicken Little media frenzy (for you non old farts, that would be "The sky is falling!") -

 

[rosco]

Todays economic environoment isn't going to be able to stand too much.

Every time the predictors predict doom and gloom as prices rise the demand drops, the storage tanks get full, the prices drop, etc. Supply and demand will ulitimately rule and somewhere in the middle we all get screwed.

I made the trip to race in Chicago back when diesel was very high a few years ago. My first car was cheaper than the round trip fuel bill.

RG

A few years back the airlines tacked on several fuel surcharges because of high fuel prices, when the fuel prices came down, the airlines never reduced those charges, now we are seeing another increase in prices with another fuel surcharge, 18 years ago a supplier I used for plastic bags increased their prices because the high oil costs, yet when they went down 60% we never did get a lower price. We are the little guy always getting screwed, the biggest problem I see is that we won't stick together to fight back, never have and never will.

 

[rocketman]

Joe, with a dually getting 6 miles to the gallon it just about broke us. Thank goodness the oil bubble burst when it did. We kept our racing to a minimum and did a lot of non-racing events close to home but that was at $4.00 a gallon and this will be a dollar more if it pans out. On the home front there was never much money to do anything as it all went in the gas tank which is my point.

Of course oil is commodity and when there is less of it or thought to be less the bidders bid it up ie " the cost of a barrel oil went up to x today". As Randy said we need those that we elected to allow domestic drilling and open up the resources we have right here at home. Right now there is still a ban on drilling in the gulf even though a judge ruled against the ban, yet the administration did it anyway. Nobody cares when the price it $2.75 but once it goes over 4.00 they will start caring. For every green job two jobs are lost.

 

[rocketman]

The other problems with tractor trailers are the permits, weigh stations visits etc.

 

[Huge]

The other problems with tractor trailers are the permits, weigh stations visits etc.

Plus about $8000.00 for tires.

 

[nitronoise]

As a transportation profesional dealing with , rails , trucks and steamships , I feel the pain as the rising cost of oil eats into my margins as customers scream and kick and fight cost of transportation and fight over a percentage point on fuel surcharges , I agree with Eugene , it will affect every race team this season and the way the NHRA laid out this seasons events won't help any one it looks like a dart board tour and a lot of backtracking and crossing back and forth across the country.

AS for me I may go to vegas 1 for a special trip and I will only go to chicago and indy to take customers , no west coast events for me this year

Have a safe and prospeous new year all Nitromaters , and Eugene and Mike , Thanks for your friendship I look forward to seeing you soon

KJB

 

[clwill]

the way the NHRA laid out this seasons events won't help any one it looks like a dart board tour and a lot of backtracking and crossing back and forth across the country.

That is an interesting point. The NHRA Full Throttle schedule is a crazy hodge-podge of back and forth across the country. Touring bands and their "every other night a new city" look almost sane by comparison.

It's just not clear if NHRA doesn't care that the have to schlep all over the country, or maybe the teams don't make it known what a cost (and PITA) it is, or ...? The only segment that seems to be planned due to distance is the Western Swing, with its 800+ mile treks between stops. And that's on it's third different rotation in as many years.

Clearly some of it is designed around the weather, can't run a race up north in February or November. But you can't use venue availability as an excuse, these are the marquis events at these facilities, I'm sure most/all would make whatever date the NHRA chooses work.

So why is the NHRA schedule so crazy? Anyone have a clue?

 

[mw6789]

ya know, I have no problem with anyone and everyone making a profit. It's these cowardly weasels in the oil business wanting every nickle in your pants...your pants...your shoes...your socks, etc. that p***es me off. If you think you've seen wasteful thinking in government, come to the production side of oil. And then they complain about rising costs....BS!!!! Lazy, wasteful, and answer to no one attitude is what makes costs so high. Run your business like the rest of us have to and you might be amazed at the way the budget comes back in line.

It amuses me that any excuse can raise the price of oil. The dollar is weak, higher demand overseas, higher production costs, a refinery goes offline, a gas delivery truck has a blow-out; you name it and the oil companies will make an excuse out of it. Valero has a big station up the highway from my shop with an electronic pricing board. The price literally changes 4 or 5 times a day sometimes. Gas went up a nickle a gallon one day while I was home for 30 minutes eating lunch. It also amuses me that the news can announce that oil went up a dollar a barrell yesterday, and gas goes up a nickle a gallon this morning. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that oil prices are bids for oil 90 days in the future. I dont think the station pays more for the gas in the ground because oil went up yesterday. Had a buddy who worked for a big oil supplier and he used to feed me this "We make 2 cents a gallon" bullsh*t. You know, I am not a Harvard Business School graduate, but I do understand that you dont buy a $100K Peterbuilt tractor and a $80K aluminum tanker to deliver a load of gas to make $160. Your boss also does not live in a $3 Million dollar house and fly around in his private plane on 2 cents a gallon. I was born at night---but not last night.

 

[Toejam]

Joe, with a dually getting 6 miles to the gallon it just about broke us. Thank goodness the oil bubble burst when it did. We kept our racing to a minimum and did a lot of non-racing events close to home but that was at $4.00 a gallon and this will be a dollar more if it pans out. On the home front there was never much money to do anything as it all went in the gas tank which is my point.

Of course oil is commodity and when there is less of it or thought to be less the bidders bid it up ie " the cost of a barrel oil went up to x today". As Randy said we need those that we elected to allow domestic drilling and open up the resources we have right here at home. Right now there is still a ban on drilling in the gulf even though a judge ruled against the ban, yet the administration did it anyway. Nobody cares when the price it $2.75 but once it goes over 4.00 they will start caring. For every green job two jobs are lost.

Rich, if gas gets anywhere Near $5 a gallon. A lot of people in all Sectors wil be hurting! Starting with the Trucking industry!!!

 

[mw6789]

A few years back the airlines tacked on several fuel surcharges because of high fuel prices, when the fuel prices came down, the airlines never reduced those charges, now we are seeing another increase in prices with another fuel surcharge, 18 years ago a supplier I used for plastic bags increased their prices because the high oil costs, yet when they went down 60% we never did get a lower price. We are the little guy always getting screwed, the biggest problem I see is that we won't stick together to fight back, never have and never will.

You are right about the "surcharges" never going away. My UPS program updates fuel surcharges amost daily--even though fuel prices at the time were declining. Have a customer in the trucking business with some dedicated runs--He said his fuel surcharges alone were buying his fuel on most of his runs. It is kind of like those little local taxes that the politicians just tell us we need long enough to pay for a specific item--they just never seem to go away. I cant imagine that rising fuel costs wont be devestating to everyone's racing program. I know I sure cut back on trips when diesel was almost $5 a gallon a couple of years ago.

 

[Toejam]

Obama signing the Drilling ban recently will kill his re-election chances in 2012 if gas gets anywhere near $5 per gallon! $4 Gas killed Detroit and the Airline industry, $5 gas will wipe out our economy!

 

[cephus]

being in the trucking business u guys r forgettin 1 big issue,,it's called CSA 2010,, it's the new regulations the government is using 2 attack the big trucks,trls and the drivers, and yes it is all bout money in the name of safety,,the manual is bout 3 inches thick and full of total bull****,,and will effect the industry as bad as fuel!!!

by the way i am for hire to the highest bidder to oversee

gk

 

[Randy]

Obama signing the Drilling ban recently will kill his re-election chances in 2012 if gas gets anywhere near $5 per gallon! $4 Gas killed Detroit and the Airline industry, $5 gas will wipe out our economy!

Waiting for CLW in 3...2...1....


.

 

[twostep]

Obama signing the Drilling ban recently will kill his re-election chances in 2012 if gas gets anywhere near $5 per gallon! $4 Gas killed Detroit and the Airline industry, $5 gas will wipe out our economy!

Joe, shush about Obama - I'd like to see this thread continue. And high gasoline prices won't kill the economy anyway, although they may have a profound effect on it. As I explained before, those who control the prices won't let it go that far. Shooting oneself in the foot hurts; they know it and they know how to avoid it.

NHRA's event schedule most likely has a lot to do with the wishes of the particular track. Example - Billy Meyer's O'Reilly Nationals, for years, was held in late October, which he claimed was detrimental to attendance numbers since north Texas and the DFW Metroplex area in particular is so heavily involved in other sporting events at that time. He basically demanded NHRA move the event to late September or take the event down the road. NHRA blinked.

In looking at the 2011 schedule, it sure would be nice for the racers if NHRA would switch the Keystones Countdown event from fourth to first. Dallas/Reading/Phoenix is nearly 4000 miles.

 

[Toejam]

And high gasoline prices won't kill the economy anyway, although they may have a profound effect on it. As I explained before, those who control the prices won't let it go that far. Shooting oneself in the foot hurts; they know it and they know how to avoid it.

Tell that to the Thousands of Truckers and Trucking companies that went out of business! Everything we consume is transported in by something that consumes Fuel! $5 Gasoline will Hurt this economy far more than the Wall street collapse did!

 

[twostep]

Tell that to the Thousands of Truckers and Trucking companies that went out of business!

It did indeed have a devastating effect on various sectors of the economy and lots of independents went down. Larger companies (UPS, etc.) simply raised prices and kept on truckin', so to speak. Again, I'll say, the brokers will raise crude prices until they meet a point of resistance that makes it unprofitable to raise it further. And this time they're going about it slowly.

Crude prices rose so quickly two summers ago that it terrified the whole country - there was talk of $10 a gallon gas - people in the NE would freeze because they couldn't afford fuel oil - the Gov went ethanol crazy.....now, it's two cents here, sometimes a nickel there. Instead of going to 4 bucks in 6 months, it's a 3-year process. A little at a time, figuring idiots like us won't notice.

I wish there was a viable solution. There isn't. There's no alternative source of energy at this point in time that is more efficient and cheaper to mass-produce than petro energy. It takes more energy to produce ethanol than the ethanol saves. Electricity for your new Nissan Leaf comes from coal-fired powerplants. Biodiesel, solar, and such are niche sources of energy that will never become mainstream in the US. And it's pretty hard to beat the overall efficiency of the internal combustion engine. So - we're back to crude oil, and we'll continue to buy most of it from foreign sources and be at the mercy of lovelies like Hugo Chavez.

 

[Randy]

So - we're back to crude oil, and we'll continue to buy most of it from foreign sources and be at the mercy of lovelies like Hugo Chavez.

Unless the US gets their head out and allows responsible drilling here.

George Soros gets billions from the US to hire Chavez to drill in areas off the gulf that our own government says is off limits for US production because of the enviro-nazis forcing us to by it from the environmentally irresponsible regimes. We have more oil than the folks who want to kill us have, yet we are forced to buy it from them.

Makes no sense.

And contrary to what you believe, higher energy costs no matter how high wll only prolong the economic mess we are in. And the current mess is effecting and hurting race teams and the companies that produce the parts, and companies that sponsor little tracks, etc.

 

[mick]

oil futures closed @ 91.35/barrel today 12/31 for a 15% gain on the year;
driven by more than expected demand and ever rising demand in china.

gasoline finished the year +19%
heating oil finsished at +20%
natural gas finished at -20%

 

[cephus]

u tell'em Joe

 

[twostep]

And contrary to what you believe, higher energy costs no matter how high wll only prolong the economic mess we are in.

I concur 100 percent. They will - have - done irreparable damage already. But what will kill the American economy for all time is apathy. A "It'll never happen here; we have too many safeguards built into our economic system" mentality. Drag racing is optional. Eating isn't. I'd hate to see racing come to a standstill, but things could be worse, a lot worse. At least we still have the freedom to come to this forum and discuss it, unlike people in many countries whose leaders would love to be running this one.

Back to that high priced gas. I'll venture a guess. $3.50 national average this summer, barring a catastrophic event such as a new war, refinery explosion, natural disaster, etc....with isolated areas in the $4 range. Will that curttail your racing endeavors? You make the call. I know this - I'd hate to pay John Force's fuel bill to get his entourage from Reading, PA to Phoenix, AZ.