mick
Nitro Member
what do they tell you?
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Nitromater
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What they're saying in the pits about 1320 v 1000
- Thread starter Bobby Bennett
- Start date
what do they tell you?
The groans from the Community over Noise and Traffic issues grow louder every year, and we know how many former tracks have gone that route!
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Another reason NOT to have exclusivity contracts. If Firestone and M&H were
still in the mix, we may already have a 360 or 370 mph tire.(and 1/4mi. racing)
Competition brings improvement. Terry is right, without it Goodyear has no incentive to make a higher speed tire.
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mw6789
Nitro Member
This makes as much or more sense than any other post on this board.
Zak
Nitro Member
thanks for saying what I've always wanted to say.
want to look at an even scarier stat? compile the number of final round participants
Dragracer
Nitro Member
Back when Carl Olson was a NHRA VP I mentioned to him at Pomona that I thought the spectator prices kept going up and how long they were going to keep raising them. At that time they filled ever seat on both sides of the track on Sunday and did not have any seats covered. Thursday and Friday had good crowds, Saturday was a big crowd and Sunday was a sell out. Carl's answer was the the suits at NHRA were going to keep raising the prices as long as they had sell outs. If the crowds declined they would slowly lower the price until they had sell outs. As we know at that time there were a number of NHRA racers working for NHRA. Since then they have got ride of all of them.
I guess now the NHRA suits would rather continue to see attendance decline rather than lower the spectator prices.
I guess now the NHRA suits would rather continue to see attendance decline rather than lower the spectator prices.
Larry jr.
Nitro Member
Yep and back in the good old days Snake and Mongoose had the only big sponsor deal and pretty much dominated funny car, James Warren and Don Garlits dominated top fuel, Don Schumacher and Jungle had the multi car F/C teams, from 1975 to 1980 only two guys won all the funny car championship. Then Bernstein and Snake won pretty much everything in the 1980's into the early 90's.
Fire the next pair................
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my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Don't know if they "want" in or not. All I'm saying is they shouldn't be locked out.
d'kid
Nitro Member
I believe they declined to play because they did not think it was possible build a Drag Race Tire that could live at 335 plus... I did not think they were "LOCKED OUT" Zappy.
d'kid
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Sure they are. NHRA not only dictates the brand,(goodyear) but also the compound. ALL the fuel cars must run the exact same rear tires.
Larry jr.
Nitro Member
True but only because no other manufacture has stepped up with anything better, not because nhra says so.
SoCal Racer
Nitro Member
I was at E-Town when Johnny West was knocked unconscious and ran off he end of the track. I was not there when we lost Scott Kalitta in a similar crash. Speeds were different in each of those crashes, with Johnny's car gradually picking up speed as he neared the end of the track. Scott was going full bore when he blew up. But I don't think Scott could have survived if the race was 1000 ft back then. He may have if there wasn't equipment (boom truck) parked down there in his path.
Just like when Jimmy Nix died after hitting the score board pillar, and at the next race at Maple Grove I saw one hay bale leaning against the base of each pillar at the top end. I flagged down a track worker and asked if that would have saved Jimmy and he just shrugged his shoulders and took off on his minibike.
People were sporting T-shirts at Maple Grove one year that said something to the effect of "I won't be back if 1320 isn't back".....
Personally, I miss the top end charges and the pedal fests that were won in the final few yards of the old 1320
Scott's death was tragic and should have never happened, period. But looking at the facts, 1,000 foot is a bogus solution. Scott was traveling ~300 mph when the car blew up at the 1,000 foot mark. It immediately began decelerating due to no longer applying power, wind resistance, etc. - albeit at a slow rate. Unfortunately the chutes burned off and the brakes failed - a "perfect storm" of malfunctions that would most likely lead to calamity on any track, but in this case it was a shorter track with equipment in the shutdown area. I'm sorry to say, but Scott had no chance in that scenario.
My point is, whether blowing up at 1000 ft. or racing to 1000 ft. and clicking it would have the same outcome given chutes gone and no brakes.
90-percent
Nitro Member
I flat out do not like 1000 foot racing.
1000 feet at Pomona and E-town is fine with me.
HOWEVER,
there is a way to go 1320 probably everywhere, but it involves cooperation with the property owners past the shut down area.
For example, at Maple Grove there is a public road that crosses the race track. The sand trap is after the public road and there are track workers that stop traffic when fast cars run.
The same could be done at the short tracks with a hell of a lot of cooperation from the owners of the property past the shut down.
But, I'm suspecting thats been thought of years ago and hit some impediments to making a deal with the property owners or local community.
Even if E-town had the same arrangement as Maple Grove, (which is possible. The other side of Pension road is still woods, I think?) I still think Scott's accident would have been fatal. That camera boom was on the other side of the jersey barriers and so logically Scott was either on top of the barriers or on the wrong side when he hit.
I will say that NHRA big show drag racing has seen it's peak and is now in a state of decline in terms of popularity. One thing us rabid fans have to accept is that for most people drag racing as spectator entertainment is as exciting as tiddlywinks or Slobovian cheese rolling. Always has been.
UNLESS THEY GO TO THE TRACK. Every newbie I've ever taken has really enjoyed it, but that was 20 years ago.
The reason to go back to 1320 is to make NHRA big show drag racing more popular and reverse the decline in spectator and sponsor appeal. (1000 feet is like changing the baseball diamond to three bases instead of four to me. It wastes fifty years of history and tradition) This is a big daunting task that depends on a vast myriad of factors, many external to racing - like demographics, the economy, suburban sprawl, and video games. Young people seem to be able to get all the entertainment they could possibly want with video games. I grew up in a different era and don't get the appeal, but that's the way it is.
So lets deal with what we can control. The goal is 1320 done safely. Whats the least disruptive way to slow the cars down to a 330 mph maximum forever without all nitro teams scrapping all their parts? My vote is for 450 CI max, and then when it ratchets back up to ludicrous speed, go to 400 ci. I KNOW THIS IS DISRUPTIVE AND crewcheifs would have to come up with new combinations and the historical data base to make it work. But it would apply to everybody and could inject more ingenuity until the dust settles. I'm not wise enough to come up with a plan that doesn't turn state of the art pieces into instant junk, however.
The second is the NHRA stewardship. I think it should be run as a not for profit overseer and not as a corporate profit center for NHRA. I KNOW NHRA HAS ALWAYS TECHNICALLY BEEN A NOT FOR PROFIT OPERATION. But they sure are running it like any typical modern American corporation, as they do as much as they possibly can to get more $ for them at the expense of everybody else involved - spectators, racers, sponsors, track owners, parts suppliers, etc. Their mission should not be to maximize the amount of money they can extract from everybody involved, but to provide safety, nice facilities, a enjoyable spectating experience, a good entertainment value, reasonable rules and enforcement and the basic frame work for good racing entertainment.
They should not try to pick the pockets any way they possibly can for everybody that enters their house. Nobody likes being taken advantage of, and NHRA as a not for profit company hell bent on making as much money as possible for themselves, has been doing that for years.
And now it's catching up with them. People are walking away simply because they feel they are being exploited and used. Taken advantage of. Like an $8 bottle of water or $12 for a cheeseburger and coke. Or $28 dollars for a tee shirt with a fair market value of $12.
Simply, if NHRA operated like a true not for profit instead of a typical money sucking damn the future corporation, that could turn things around. Their mission is to provide everybody with the best and fairest experience possible, not extract as much money as possible from people they have temporarily captured. Nobody likes being treated like a sucker.
Just throwing this out there. Been singing this tune for 20 years to no avail, but I just like to vent on the 'mater once in a while.
-90%
1000 feet at Pomona and E-town is fine with me.
HOWEVER,
there is a way to go 1320 probably everywhere, but it involves cooperation with the property owners past the shut down area.
For example, at Maple Grove there is a public road that crosses the race track. The sand trap is after the public road and there are track workers that stop traffic when fast cars run.
The same could be done at the short tracks with a hell of a lot of cooperation from the owners of the property past the shut down.
But, I'm suspecting thats been thought of years ago and hit some impediments to making a deal with the property owners or local community.
Even if E-town had the same arrangement as Maple Grove, (which is possible. The other side of Pension road is still woods, I think?) I still think Scott's accident would have been fatal. That camera boom was on the other side of the jersey barriers and so logically Scott was either on top of the barriers or on the wrong side when he hit.
I will say that NHRA big show drag racing has seen it's peak and is now in a state of decline in terms of popularity. One thing us rabid fans have to accept is that for most people drag racing as spectator entertainment is as exciting as tiddlywinks or Slobovian cheese rolling. Always has been.
UNLESS THEY GO TO THE TRACK. Every newbie I've ever taken has really enjoyed it, but that was 20 years ago.
The reason to go back to 1320 is to make NHRA big show drag racing more popular and reverse the decline in spectator and sponsor appeal. (1000 feet is like changing the baseball diamond to three bases instead of four to me. It wastes fifty years of history and tradition) This is a big daunting task that depends on a vast myriad of factors, many external to racing - like demographics, the economy, suburban sprawl, and video games. Young people seem to be able to get all the entertainment they could possibly want with video games. I grew up in a different era and don't get the appeal, but that's the way it is.
So lets deal with what we can control. The goal is 1320 done safely. Whats the least disruptive way to slow the cars down to a 330 mph maximum forever without all nitro teams scrapping all their parts? My vote is for 450 CI max, and then when it ratchets back up to ludicrous speed, go to 400 ci. I KNOW THIS IS DISRUPTIVE AND crewcheifs would have to come up with new combinations and the historical data base to make it work. But it would apply to everybody and could inject more ingenuity until the dust settles. I'm not wise enough to come up with a plan that doesn't turn state of the art pieces into instant junk, however.
The second is the NHRA stewardship. I think it should be run as a not for profit overseer and not as a corporate profit center for NHRA. I KNOW NHRA HAS ALWAYS TECHNICALLY BEEN A NOT FOR PROFIT OPERATION. But they sure are running it like any typical modern American corporation, as they do as much as they possibly can to get more $ for them at the expense of everybody else involved - spectators, racers, sponsors, track owners, parts suppliers, etc. Their mission should not be to maximize the amount of money they can extract from everybody involved, but to provide safety, nice facilities, a enjoyable spectating experience, a good entertainment value, reasonable rules and enforcement and the basic frame work for good racing entertainment.
They should not try to pick the pockets any way they possibly can for everybody that enters their house. Nobody likes being taken advantage of, and NHRA as a not for profit company hell bent on making as much money as possible for themselves, has been doing that for years.
And now it's catching up with them. People are walking away simply because they feel they are being exploited and used. Taken advantage of. Like an $8 bottle of water or $12 for a cheeseburger and coke. Or $28 dollars for a tee shirt with a fair market value of $12.
Simply, if NHRA operated like a true not for profit instead of a typical money sucking damn the future corporation, that could turn things around. Their mission is to provide everybody with the best and fairest experience possible, not extract as much money as possible from people they have temporarily captured. Nobody likes being treated like a sucker.
Just throwing this out there. Been singing this tune for 20 years to no avail, but I just like to vent on the 'mater once in a while.
-90%
Scott's death had NOTHING to do with E-town's short shutdown, but a Sand trap that should never been allowed by NHRA! The 1000' is NHRA's idea of Cover your ass!
Larry
Nitro Member
Not necessarily David . First engine explosions are reduced by 1,000 ft racing and along with that the costs and yeah lives .
There is tremendous down force involved which is bad enough but the shock of a engine going away knocking a driver unconscious even for a second at the wrong time and that's it.
That's why parachutes deploy every time there is an explosion automatically to give the driver a chance .
They are sure there would be more explosions and less teams at 1320 .
Nitrohelper
Nitro Member
"not for profit" is a legal term for a company that can't have shareholders and pay dividends...It has nothing to do with making a profit ---
it only deals with how the profits are distributed - they can make as much money as possible...
"A nonprofit organization, or not-for-profit organization, often called an NPO or simply a nonprofit and non-commercial organization,
often called an NCO, is an organization that uses surplus revenues to achieve its goals rather than distributing them as profit or dividends". ...
Nonprofit organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
90-percent
Nitro Member
I understand what you are saying about the "rules' of not-for-profit status, probably as defined by the IRS or something. You are no doubt correct.
I'm talking more about the spirit, "mission statement", and core values of the role of a "sanctioning body".
Like people running soup kitchens don't have executives making $50,000 a day. They just do what they gotta do to feed poor people and reinvest any income into doing a better job feeding poor people.
There's a conflict of interest at NHRA that is pretty typical in American corporations - do the people running it have a mission to do whats best for the long term health of the company or whats best for themselves at the expense of the health of the company?
Because the NHRA management seems to consist of a lot of people with significant corporate experience on their resumes, they will do what those people do and take more for themselves at the expense of their current employers future. If they happen to run the place into the ground, they will leapfrog to another corporate position and do the same thing to their new employer.
So the solution is for NHRA to poach their executive staff from the soup kitchen industry. Or somebody like Bill Bader, who seems to be very customer driven and doesn't treat people that enter his house as victims for exploitation.
I'm talking about what's in the heart of the people running NHRA. Is their passion for the long term well being of the sport or is it riding the gravy train provided by these odd people that like watching, running, sponsoring or making parts for cars that race briefly in a straight line?
BTW - takes me a long time and a lot of words to make my point. You must be a crew chief or something to express your opinion so concisely, without extraneous verbiage. If not, look into it. I think you'd be good at it.
<snark>
-90%
I'm talking more about the spirit, "mission statement", and core values of the role of a "sanctioning body".
Like people running soup kitchens don't have executives making $50,000 a day. They just do what they gotta do to feed poor people and reinvest any income into doing a better job feeding poor people.
There's a conflict of interest at NHRA that is pretty typical in American corporations - do the people running it have a mission to do whats best for the long term health of the company or whats best for themselves at the expense of the health of the company?
Because the NHRA management seems to consist of a lot of people with significant corporate experience on their resumes, they will do what those people do and take more for themselves at the expense of their current employers future. If they happen to run the place into the ground, they will leapfrog to another corporate position and do the same thing to their new employer.
So the solution is for NHRA to poach their executive staff from the soup kitchen industry. Or somebody like Bill Bader, who seems to be very customer driven and doesn't treat people that enter his house as victims for exploitation.
I'm talking about what's in the heart of the people running NHRA. Is their passion for the long term well being of the sport or is it riding the gravy train provided by these odd people that like watching, running, sponsoring or making parts for cars that race briefly in a straight line?
BTW - takes me a long time and a lot of words to make my point. You must be a crew chief or something to express your opinion so concisely, without extraneous verbiage. If not, look into it. I think you'd be good at it.
<snark>
-90%
Larry jr.
Nitro Member
The truth about 1000 ft nitro racing is after Scott was killed several drivers and owners along with NHRA made the decison to shorten to 1000 ft until another solution could be found, it wasn't.
Now most CC's and Drivers are used to 1000ft racing and don't want to return to 1320 ft.
I very good friend of mine CC's Grubnic's car, James Riolo , He told Me last weekend He would like to see 1320 at places like Gainsville and the Texas MotorPlex and other tracks with the long shutdown area, but stay 1000 ft at Pomona, E-Town and some of the other tracks with a short shutdown area.
I agree, but that doesn't matter because I don't have a voice with NHRA.
Fire the next pair.
Now most CC's and Drivers are used to 1000ft racing and don't want to return to 1320 ft.
I very good friend of mine CC's Grubnic's car, James Riolo , He told Me last weekend He would like to see 1320 at places like Gainsville and the Texas MotorPlex and other tracks with the long shutdown area, but stay 1000 ft at Pomona, E-Town and some of the other tracks with a short shutdown area.
I agree, but that doesn't matter because I don't have a voice with NHRA.
Fire the next pair.
