Scelzi Is Back At It ... (1 Viewer)

Who said that?

The example of convoluted thinking is when you have inserted Tony George's gamble and loss as some sort of template of failure for doing so. I used it as an example for making the NHRA safer and viable for the future by slowing down the cars. I can't help that I struck a tender chord with you on this subject. Personally, I never watched CART because of it's entitled foreign arrogance.

We can disagree on TG, and I totally disagree with you, but the example that I used when referring to the IRL was the removal of the Turbo to slow the cars down and to make the racing more accessible for others. Whether you like it or not, that was the spirit of the move. You now have the benefit of years of hindsight to criticize the move, and criticize George for "destroying" a sport that did have it's problems brewing long before the takeover...

Look at the foreign names above and tell me if you think that list would compete with the popularity of an overwhelming American group like Nascar.
The problems were boiling, it just happened to dissolve under George's watch.

Come on George, you are a smart guy. EVERYTHING in human history provides a "template" of sorts of what to do or what not to do in any endeavor. There is nothng new under the Sun.

We will disagree about TG, which is very easy to do since you, by your own admission, was not an open wheel fan pre-IRL. I spent EVERY May of my youth at the Brickyard. Pole Day, Bump Day, Carb Day and Race Day. I loved it, and I miss it.

One last point regarding the list of foreign names, in 1994, CART was #1 in TV ratings, sponsorships, purse money and attendance. So obviously Americans had no issues with the foreign drivers. People conviniently forget that fact.

I suppose since you are not a fan of entitled foreigners that I won't see you in Austin in November for the F1 race? I am very excited for the USGP.
 
In kind of skimming the posts on this thread, the ones regarding other racing series are kind of false with some truth thrown in.

First of all.. NASCAR didn't proactively introduce restrictor plates. Bobby Allison lost a motor in the trioval of Talladega and cut a tire running over debris. The resulting spin sent the car high in the air and into the catch fence, which tore down quite a large section of it leaving everyone behind it exposed for the rest of the field crashing past. Some fans were hurt but none killed. NASCAR realized - oh ****, if that car went through the fence, we're done as a sport. They devised a temporary fix by putting on a restrictor plate. The easiest and cheapest way to control speeds. Note this happened in 1987 and it is STILL a "temporary" fix. Sounds kind of like 1,000 foot racetracks.

They caused an even more entertaining race by keeping the cars grouped together in large 200mph packs to thrill the fans. The unintended consequence was 20+ car smoldering wrecks, and the cars still flipped and flew when they turned sidways. NASCAR tried a bunch of diferent aero devices and restrictor plates to try to seperate the cars and give a little more control to the drivers. Recently they've figured out how to do a 2-car tandem to break up the big pack racing. Now NASCAR is doing everything it can to get them back to it after working so hard to get them away from it. Turns out 4 races of the year ARE all about huge wrecks and flying cars. That's what they pay to see.

Tony George got rid of turbos in the interest of safety? That's pretty false. In fact the first year of the IRL they still ran turbo cars and set record speeds in Indianapolis. Unfortunately pole sitter Scott Brayton also lost his life in a practice accident. Some say speed, others say car design. I'd tend to go with the latter since he was running mid 225mph race pace when the accident occured, and not 235mph qualifying speeds. This was also before the invention of the SAFER barrier. Tony DID want to break away from IndyCar because at that time, CEO Andrew Craig and other board members didn't really care to include him in all their big boy games. He took his racetrack and went elsewhere with the excuse that "we need more american drivers, american ovals, american engines, and american built cars." Well by the 10th anniversary IRL season guess what? Foreign drivers, road courses, Penske, Ganassi, Honda, Toyota, and an occasional hold out Chevy were where the series was. IRL won and CART lost because Tony George had his families millions to bankroll the series and the most prominant race. In the end he realized his idea of american everything didn't pan out, but all he really wanted was control, and he got it. Then was voted off the IMS board and doesn't have a team anymore either. Speaking of power trips, don't forget that is where CART came from in the begining. All the owners told USAC to f-off and banded to form their own series.

The idea of the slower cars being more accessible to others did work. You had guys like Steve Kinser, Dr. Jack Miller, Jim Guthrie, Marco Greco, Racin' Gardner, etc.. run the indy 500. Guess what? Nobody cared and people stopped showing up. Also the whole Jeff Gordon heading south theory doesn't hold water because IRL had their series star Tony Stewart head the same way.

By the way have you ever compared the safety records of either series since the split in 1996? The new design IRL car with its solid indestructible gearbox broke more drivers backs than anything seen before on rear impacts. The cars still flipped flew and broke apart into a million pieces. CART killed 3 drivers, one each at a superspeedway (Greg Moore Fontana 99) street course (Jeff Krosnoff Toronto 96) and permanent road course (Gonzalo Rodriguez Laguna Seca 99). IRL killed 4 Scott Brayton Indianapolis (with the CART turbo style car) Tony Renna Indianapolis, Paul Dana Homestead, and Dan Wheldon Las Vegas. Both series killed fans. CART killed 3 in Michigan 98, and IRL killed 3 and hurt 9 in Charlotte 99. As you can see, turbo or no turbo, big speed or little speed, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE.

What does this even have to do with NHRA? The owners and series butting heads and having a power struggle is good for nobody, a temporary fix is never temporary, and slow or fast racecars will still kill people.
 
From this fan's perspective, Tony tried, and it didn't work, but the years 1997-1999 I couldn't wait to watch the IRL races on TV. I saw all disney races in person, travelled to new hampshire, travelled to atlanta twice, it was a lot of fun. I couldn't have cared less that penske and newman weren't there. the races were FUN.

when montoya won indy in 2000 I knew the fun was over.
 
The primary reason Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Juan Pablo Montoya, Casey Mears, AJ Allemdinger (started in Champ Car) and of course Danica Patrick all have made the move to a racing series many IRL and CART & F1 die-hards consider a technically inferior series, NASCAR?

One, simple nasty little five letter word.

M O N E Y

There is simply more money to be made in NASCAR than open wheel racing, with the exception of F1.

Several years ago, a friend who is wholly into IRL asked me if I thought Patrick was going to move to NASCAR. I said definitely, it's only a matter of time, because of the cash involved. He laughed me off, insisting Danica wouldn't "lower herself to racing with hillbillies."

Guess who's laughing now.
:D
 
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What does this even have to do with NHRA? The owners and series butting heads and having a power struggle is good for nobody, a temporary fix is never temporary, and slow or fast racecars will still kill people.

What is has to do with NHRA is someone said Tony George was forward-thinking and the NHRA should be too.

Tony Stewart was the exact type of driver Tony George wanted in his series after swearing he wouldn't lose another Jeff Gordon. The only problem was nobody cared about George's series, and you can't make the same type of money that you can in NASCAR. Which is why Ryan Newman, the late great Kenny Irwin, Kasey Kahne and a host of other sprint car drivers go to Charlotte instead of Indy. Even Sam Hornish would rather be irrelevant in the Nationwide series than race IndyCars ... and he had the best ride in the game at Penske. Now Danica, the IndyCar's only star with any kind of Q rating, is heading to NASCAR-land.

PS Andrew Craig ... wow ... that is a name I haven't heard or thought of in a looooonnng time.
 
Come on George, you are a smart guy. EVERYTHING in human history provides a "template" of sorts of what to do or what not to do in any endeavor. There is nothng new under the Sun.

We will disagree about TG, which is very easy to do since you, by your own admission, was not an open wheel fan pre-IRL. I spent EVERY May of my youth at the Brickyard. Pole Day, Bump Day, Carb Day and Race Day. I loved it, and I miss it.

One last point regarding the list of foreign names, in 1994, CART was #1 in TV ratings, sponsorships, purse money and attendance. So obviously Americans had no issues with the foreign drivers. People conviniently forget that fact.

I suppose since you are not a fan of entitled foreigners that I won't see you in Austin in November for the F1 race? I am very excited for the USGP.


I'm going to tip my hat to you Chris.
I can tell from your responses that open wheel racing has a place in your heart. I just never could get in to it for the reasons I mentioned and I am no expert. But now that we are coming full circle and back to the NHRA, I don't think we have to worry about a similar coup concerning the NHRA.

Will the NHRA survive? Probably. But I just turned 53, and remembering the countless race weekends from the late 70's, 80's and 90's I attended, I just feel sad to see the sport's golden years ride off in to the distance. I would love to see some of that same magic that we all took for granted in those days re-appear on the track, but at some point I have to convince myself that it's never going to happen. This product is still a second rate show, and if measures were taken proactively, it may not have been so incredibly apparent to the golden year fans like myself and others who were fans during the great days of drag racing.
 
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ken did you attend any of the IRL races in 97-99 - I did, 8 of them. I watched almost all on TV . It was some of the best racing i've seen, kinda like the old days of nhra. he brought F1 to indy. I will always defend him, because as a fan, he provided a product I felt was worth my time and money. he's gone now, and the only reason I think about going to st pete next month is to see the new car and hear the new turbos. It's not because I expect a good race, I don't. I hate street races.
 
Open wheel/Indy car will never get back to any kind of prominence until American drivers become the main draw! I'm curious when was the last Indy 500 that featured a majority of American drivers, I bet you would have to go back to the 70's...:rolleyes:
 
Open wheel/Indy car will never get back to any kind of prominence until American drivers become the main draw! I'm curious when was the last Indy 500 that featured a majority of American drivers, I bet you would have to go back to the 70's...:rolleyes:

Well, not back to the 70's. Here's some stats: 1980-33 American drivers, 1993-21 American drivers, 1994-18 Americans, 1995-15 Americans and I think this year's 500 had 10 Americans with only 9 last year. Not to mention, since Sam Hornish left, few Americans have been competitive.
 
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