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Viper wants to go PSM racing
- Thread starter smokemasterJ
- Start date
smokemasterJ
Nitro Member
I must say I've not heard the rumor from "high-ranking circles" that the NHRA is thinking about returning the Harleys to the two-valve combination. But then I don't really belong to any "high-ranking circles". 
Paul
Nitro Member
It will be interesting to see if NHRA lets Viper come in on equal terms to HD as far as the engine rules go.
The article mentions a rumor that HD may be required to switch back to 2 valves per cylinder, that's the first I've heard of that one.
The article also has a mistake in the engine design company that is working with Viper, they called it "Elmore", the correct name is Illmor.
Illmor has deep experience in racing engine design and if on equal rule terms will definitely be giving HD a run for the money.
I'd like them to allow everyone 4 valves per cylinder, then we would find out how fast this design can go when its really run flat out.
The article mentions a rumor that HD may be required to switch back to 2 valves per cylinder, that's the first I've heard of that one.
The article also has a mistake in the engine design company that is working with Viper, they called it "Elmore", the correct name is Illmor.
Illmor has deep experience in racing engine design and if on equal rule terms will definitely be giving HD a run for the money.
I'd like them to allow everyone 4 valves per cylinder, then we would find out how fast this design can go when its really run flat out.
Ummm....I think they should be referring to "Ilmor" not "Elmore" Engineering, right?
Ilmor Engineering - Designer and Manufacturer of Racing Engines
I'm pretty sure this is the company they are referring to.
Ilmor Engineering - Designer and Manufacturer of Racing Engines
I'm pretty sure this is the company they are referring to.
it is.
Mario Illien and Charles Morgan started the company along with Roger Penske. One of their first efforts was the Chevy Indy Car motor in the
1980's. When Chevy left Mercedes signed them up to build their Indy Motor then their Formula 1 motor. Mercedes bought their main shop in England and sold the US shop back to the original owners.
They have produced IndyCar Motors for Honda and Chevy when they were normally aspirated and just won the IndyCar Championship with a twin turbo V6 Chevy
the start of this long process is with Glendora. How easy can that be?
johnny
Nitro Member
It's not a question. They've stated that as their intent.
sdwarf36
Nitro Member
1: Submit a proposal in writing.
2: Submit a working prototype.
3: Then get told no.
I would love if the rumor is true. The Harley's need to go back to 2 valves and the NHRA could finally have a professional class again. I say that because I no longer consider it one. It's more like the WWE with the winner already picked out except that the fans already know who it will be. NHRA needs to man up and bring this class back, Kraweic and Hines have a history of beating themselves and that's the only way anybody will ever win this year in the races left.
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Pretty much, all the unapproved things.
Paul
Nitro Member
What I don't understand is why HD, and potentially Viper, can build a ground up custom engine with zero parts from any stock motorcycle while Suzuki can't even get just a custom cylinder head or transmission case approved.
Hopefully the NHRA will use this interest from Viper to motivate them to come up with a consistent set of rules that are more fair to all the manufacturers.
Realistically I don't think "wide open" rules as pretty have been applied to HD to date make economic sense to extend though. Given access to the same rules currently applied to HD a company like Illmor could make some major gains in HP if Viper is willing to foot the bills.
This would be fun to see but its pretty clear that the majority of current teams and sponsors don't have budgets for multi-million dollar engine development programs.
This is an interesting decision point for the NHRA. HD has formed pretty strong economic ties to them, particularly with the announced support at divisional races.
Will the NHRA take the path of promoting the best and most fair competitive environment, which is their specified charter as a non-profit company?
Or will they be swayed by the $$$ that HD has been throwing in the pot and continue to cater to them at the cost to all NHRA members and spectators of less than fair competition?
Hopefully the NHRA will use this interest from Viper to motivate them to come up with a consistent set of rules that are more fair to all the manufacturers.
Realistically I don't think "wide open" rules as pretty have been applied to HD to date make economic sense to extend though. Given access to the same rules currently applied to HD a company like Illmor could make some major gains in HP if Viper is willing to foot the bills.
This would be fun to see but its pretty clear that the majority of current teams and sponsors don't have budgets for multi-million dollar engine development programs.
This is an interesting decision point for the NHRA. HD has formed pretty strong economic ties to them, particularly with the announced support at divisional races.
Will the NHRA take the path of promoting the best and most fair competitive environment, which is their specified charter as a non-profit company?
Or will they be swayed by the $$$ that HD has been throwing in the pot and continue to cater to them at the cost to all NHRA members and spectators of less than fair competition?
TooTall999
Nitro Member
4: Write a huge check to the National Harley Racing Association
5: After check is cashed you're allowed to run exclusive parts and make a mockery of the class
6: Deny all motors, performance enhancements from anyone other that the names on the check and the team they back.
smokemasterJ
Nitro Member
From the 2012 rulebook for PSM:
ENGINE
Must be of a type specifically designed and manufactured for a
production motorcycle. Harley V-Twin or NHRA-accepted American
pushrod V-Twin, 45-degree case only, maximum 3278cc (200 cid).
NHRA-accepted aftermarket Harley-Davidson or American pushrod
V-Twin engine cases with cylinder angle between 45 and 60
degrees, up to 160 cid, permitted. Kawasaki and Suzuki 4-valve
engines, maximum 1655cc (101 cid). Suzuki 2-valve engines,
maximum 1753cc (107 cid). Contact NHRA for accepted cases.
NHRA may designate
specific acceptable OEM and/or aftermarket
cases for specific makes of motorcycles. Only the Suzuki OEM
production or NHRA-accepted engine case is permitted for use in
Suzuki Pro Stock Motorcycles. Only the Kawasaki OEM production
or NHRA-accepted engine case is accepted for use in Kawasaki
Pro Stock Motorcycles. Only the Harley-Davidson NHRA-accepted
engine is permitted for use in Harley-Davidson Pro Stock
Motorcycles. Only the NHRA-accepted American pushrod V-Twin
engine case is accepted for use in Buell-bodied and/or NHRA-
specified body
combinations. Maximum permitted cylinder offset for
Harley-Davidson engine and the NHRA-accepted American
pushrod V-Twin engine is 1 inch. Modifications to main engine
cases are prohibited except for repair purposes. All engines must
be self-starting; plug-in electric starters permitted. Push or roller
starts prohibited. NHRA-accepted aftermarket engine cases
permitted.
Notice that OEM is only mentioned for Suzuki and Kawasaki. And they keep throwing in American for the Buells. I'm not sure but I think Ilmore is a British company. All I can say is good luck!
ENGINE
Must be of a type specifically designed and manufactured for a
production motorcycle. Harley V-Twin or NHRA-accepted American
pushrod V-Twin, 45-degree case only, maximum 3278cc (200 cid).
NHRA-accepted aftermarket Harley-Davidson or American pushrod
V-Twin engine cases with cylinder angle between 45 and 60
degrees, up to 160 cid, permitted. Kawasaki and Suzuki 4-valve
engines, maximum 1655cc (101 cid). Suzuki 2-valve engines,
maximum 1753cc (107 cid). Contact NHRA for accepted cases.
NHRA may designate
specific acceptable OEM and/or aftermarket
cases for specific makes of motorcycles. Only the Suzuki OEM
production or NHRA-accepted engine case is permitted for use in
Suzuki Pro Stock Motorcycles. Only the Kawasaki OEM production
or NHRA-accepted engine case is accepted for use in Kawasaki
Pro Stock Motorcycles. Only the Harley-Davidson NHRA-accepted
engine is permitted for use in Harley-Davidson Pro Stock
Motorcycles. Only the NHRA-accepted American pushrod V-Twin
engine case is accepted for use in Buell-bodied and/or NHRA-
specified body
combinations. Maximum permitted cylinder offset for
Harley-Davidson engine and the NHRA-accepted American
pushrod V-Twin engine is 1 inch. Modifications to main engine
cases are prohibited except for repair purposes. All engines must
be self-starting; plug-in electric starters permitted. Push or roller
starts prohibited. NHRA-accepted aftermarket engine cases
permitted.
Notice that OEM is only mentioned for Suzuki and Kawasaki. And they keep throwing in American for the Buells. I'm not sure but I think Ilmore is a British company. All I can say is good luck!
none
Nitro Member
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
You forgot one rule:
Don't beat the Harleys....
Don't beat the Harleys....
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