Gatornats PSM Performance Triggered NHRA Parity Review (2 Viewers)

[twostep]

2 threads, Same bucket of tears! If it's so bad, boycott Harley Davidson. All of you weekend Hell's Angels, middle aged dew wearing, fingerless glove sporting, Gay Bagger riding Harley owners sell your hacks, and buy a Jap bike!

Oh, for crying out loud...give it a rest....

I like HD bikes. I own two of them. I cheered when Harley became competitive in PSM, cheered even louder when they won their first race in Gainesville years ago. I have no problem with Krawiec, Hines or V&H.

And HD still doesn't deserve the advantages they're currently being afforded. Sure, $800K in annual support should buy you some perks, but not at the expense of every other competitor. And I don't want to see Harley or VH penalized, either...simply allow others to play by the same rules. If Hector Arana should decide he wants to race a V-Rod with 4-valve heads, he should be allowed to develop the combination and race it, the same as VH was allowed to do.

 

[none]

A couple of things, where did the $800,000.00 figure come from? I never heard that number until I saw it in this thread and I'm curious about who is reporting that number.

Second, you have all heard George's side of the story, V&H isn's talking. That doesn't make what George says the gospel. Just remember that there are always at least two sides to every story, and the V&H story is quite different from what you have heard. I'm not saying that George isn't telling the truth as he sees it, I'm just saying that there is another side to the story.

The manufacturer has to be the one to ask for a change. Allen Johnson can't ask NHRA to approve a new model HEMI. Chrysler has to do that. Harley asked for a change and it was granted, Buell doesn't exist anymore, and that's not V&H's fault.

Alan

 

[SundayNiagara]

A couple of things, where did the $800,000.00 figure come from? I never heard that number until I saw it in this thread and I'm curious about who is reporting that number.

Second, you have all heard George's side of the story, V&H isn's talking. That doesn't make what George says the gospel. Just remember that there are always at least two sides to every story, and the V&H story is quite different from what you have heard. I'm not saying that George isn't telling the truth as he sees it, I'm just saying that there is another side to the story.

The manufacturer has to be the one to ask for a change. Allen Johnson can't ask NHRA to approve a new model HEMI. Chrysler has to do that. Harley asked for a change and it was granted, Buell doesn't exist anymore, and that's not V&H's fault.

Alan

Wow, talk about toeing the company line!

 

[camaro]

c’mon yall should know the drill by now, Alan’s an NHRA trooper and its appropriate the font in his post are red because, trying to get him to admit the NHRA is wrong is akin to talking to a brick wall

 

[elvis]

Wow, talk about toeing the company line!

Funny. That's what I was thinking too....

 

[none]

So you don't believe that there's two sides to the story?

Alan

 

[Silly Savage]

Was Force told he had to share his technologies with the other Ford teams?

I do not know either way on this. I just recall NO ONE could have one and then when Tasca went Nitro he got one (of course) and when he and Wilkerson began to share tech, then he got one.

I asked this question to George Bryce and he has yet to answer me, but, let's say the NHRA said ok, we will make adjustments to the HDs and make the products available to everyone, whould George (or anyone else) switch over and go with a HD. OR, are they just looking purely for partity? Same thing could be asked of the Ford/Force stuff I guess?

JR

 

[Bill]

So you don't believe that there's two sides to the story?

Alan

If there are two sides to this story, what is the other side?

If you were accused of courting this kind of favoritism, wouldn't you JUMP at the chance to tell your side?

I sure would (assuming I was blameless.)

Failure to do that is making the perps in this B.S. look like there IS no "other side." Or at least, not one that would exonerate the allegedly guilty parties.

Why would V & H remain silent through all this, if they had anything meaningful to say to the contrary?

It looks like they, along with NHRA, are in an unprecedented, and indefensible position here.

When you're in such a spot, maybe the best defense really IS to say nothing...

But, clouding the issue by claiming an (untold) "other side to the story" is not going to change anybody's mind.

It just makes it look like more obfuscation...

 

[----NONE----]

The manufacturer has to be the one to ask for a change. Allen Johnson can't ask NHRA to approve a new model HEMI. Chrysler has to do that. Harley asked for a change and it was granted, Buell doesn't exist anymore, and that's not V&H's fault.

Alan

So that's fair? Maybe the Buell guys should give up on the Buell since there is no way for them to get the manufacturer to lobby for them.... Hey, they don't have to give up on the V-Twin. They can use the Harley motors. Oh wait... They can't because no one else can get Harley bodywork, blocks or heads. That is the whole point of contention.

 

[daveo]

H.D. Made in India.

 

[Professor Dave]

Wow, talk about toeing the company line!

Personal attacks do not advance the debate.

 

[Professor Dave]

H.D. Made in India.

What does that have to do with parity in PSM?

 

[twostep]

Second, you have all heard George's side of the story, V&H isn's talking. That doesn't make what George says the gospel. Just remember that there are always at least two sides to every story, and the V&H story is quite different from what you have heard.

It doesn't matter to me what Bryce said; I didn't read his piece and I don't need to read his piece. There's no doubt what he said or how he feels.

It really is this simple. There is no way that NHRA can justify allowing ONLY Vance and Hines to compete with Harley-Davidson motorcycles. Doesn't matter if the booty is 100 grand, 800 grand, 10 million or nothing at all. And you can believe it or not, but I'd take the same position if the Harleys were running 6.90@185. It's not a case of whining because the VRods put the britches on everybody at this one race, and the last two of last year. This has been going on for a long time, even back when Arana was kicking everybody's ass.

 

[sdwarf36]

I dont blame V+H for asking for 4v OHC-the stock bike has it. Its just inconcievable that NHRA tech let them have it-AT THE SAME DISPLACEMENT as a 2 valve pushrod motor. Considering they had a competitive 2v pushrod motor already and weren't at a loss to the other bikes.

 

[matt Smith]

I dont blame V+H for asking for 4v OHC-the stock bike has it. Its just inconcievable that NHRA tech let them have it-AT THE SAME DISPLACEMENT as a 2 valve pushrod motor. Considering they had a competitive 2v pushrod motor already and weren't at a loss to the other bikes.
NHRA should have never let that fly... That motor should have be made to 120 cubic inches and thats it...
Allen, are u serious right now in taking up 4 them.... You are not looking at the big picture here that NO ONE CAN BUY A HD.... Make them go back to there 2 valve push rod motors and if they can out run everyone then then i will be inpressed... All i have ever hear was Terry and Byron built this class 20-30 years ago.. Well now they are killing it... If thats what they want just tell us and we will quit and save our money... It sucks 2 know that you spend 5 to 15 k a race to run for 3rd or 4th place... Which is 2k... NHRA i hope u see how everyone doesnt even know the whole story and yall can fix this and explain this to the whole nhra fan base.. Make them take at least 20 cubic inches away will be a good start or just run the motors they had in 2008 and then they can be just like the buells... Matt Smith

 

[Bullard Anderson]

I just think HD feels its better to have 2 bikes kicking azzzzz vs 14 other bikes than a field of 8 or 10 HD's kicking azzzzz. Now the focus of psb is on HD's dominance and how the bike is bad fast. Have 8 or so teams out there on HD's brings the focus to individual teams and rivalries. Not what HD wants. Just the HD prospective on business I think. JMO. This entire deal is a huge joke. Sometimes I think the HD's tune down to stay close to the other teams but enough to get the win. Non factory supported teams are allowed to run in most all other series in the world. Why not NHRA? Makes you wonder if it is as simple HD only gives the money to NHRA if NHRA will play by HD rules?? I don't know. You guys know more than I on bike issues.

 

[none]

I told myself I was going to stay out of this, I wish I would have listened. Here’s what I’m seeing.

There was 1 race in 2012 and the Harley’s dominated.

The race ended on Monday 2400 miles from NHRA headquarters.

Most of the staff got back late Monday or sometime Tuesday.

They decided that the bikes needed a closer look and issued a statement to that fact.

They have the luxury of not having to make a quick decision as the motorcycles don’t run again until Houston.

They have scheduled a meeting to discuss the possible options. That meeting hasn’t taken place yet.

Shouldn’t we at least wait and see what they have to say?


Two more things, I would like someone to point out where I said that there was parity in the class and nothing needs to be done.

And I’m still waiting to hear where the $800,000.00 number came from.

Alan

 

[mike]

Force's bodies have been mentioned; but can anybody beside Schumacher run a Charger body?

but I guess I'd just as soon see the bikes get replaced by the Pro Mods in the big show anyway<shrug>

 

[Paul]

Force's bodies have been mentioned; but can anybody beside Schumacher run a Charger body?

Yeah, Bernstein, Ashley, Densham, Worsham, and Troxel have all run Chargers in the past.

 

[Doolie]

A couple of things, where did the $800,000.00 figure come from? I never heard that number until I saw it in this thread and I'm curious about who is reporting that number.

Second, you have all heard George's side of the story, V&H isn's talking. That doesn't make what George says the gospel. Just remember that there are always at least two sides to every story, and the V&H story is quite different from what you have heard. I'm not saying that George isn't telling the truth as he sees it, I'm just saying that there is another side to the story.

The manufacturer has to be the one to ask for a change. Allen Johnson can't ask NHRA to approve a new model HEMI. Chrysler has to do that. Harley asked for a change and it was granted, Buell doesn't exist anymore, and that's not V&H's fault.

Alan

"Harley Davison is the official motorcycle of the NHRA and has been since 2006, when they joined the Pro Stock fray. In doing additional research and investigation for this story, sources familiar with the agreement between NHRA and Harley Davidson have repeatedly said that it is work in the neighborhood of $800-$850,000 per year to the sanctioning body. If these numbers are true, than that represents a significant revenue stream for the NHRA and one they would certainly not want to lose in these times of shrinking sponsor deals and participation."
From the Bang Shift interview with George Brice. I guess your looking for two sides does not include reading the non NHRA side....