Parity In Classes? (1 Viewer)

[Nitrohelper]

.....a shot of Franklin please....

Are you interested in running the propster class

 

[Raconteur]

In the only classes that matter to MOST spectators, Funny Car and Top Fuel, there is rules parity (which is what we are talking about here, rules). There are no "one off" combinations only available to one team. The big, well funded teams obviously have an advantage, but their advantage is people and parts inventory, not the rule book. So I will disagree with you Darr that parity is keeping fans away. Now whether some folks are turned off by the same few teams winning most of the events is a different story for a different thread.

I also disagree that NHRA needs to create more classes, there are too many now as it is. It is fine that A/Fuel and TAD run together, it would be ludicrous for NHRA to create seperate classes for cars that run within a few hundredths of each other, and to the untrained eye, look pretty much the same. Besides, the car counts are not high enough to support A/Fuel and TAD as seperate classes. Who would fund them as seperate classes for event and championship purses?

Pro Mod is the same ... the turbo deal will eventually be reeled back in so that the blown cars and nitrous cars will be competitive. There is no reason to have 3 seperate Pro Mod categories. Again, car count is an issue and funding is an issue.

And whomever said Blown and Nitrous Pro Mods didn't race together in IHRA is just flat wrong. They never split them up, and the rules changed from race to race in IHRA in the late 90s and early 2000s, 20 pounds here, less over drive there. Ask Shannon Jenkins or Scotty Cannon about the old IHRA and get comfortable ... it will be a long conversation.

Chris, the NHRA has most recently been a sanctioning body of appeasement with large wallets always getting the attention of the Suits in Glendora. You can think and feel what you wish, but I can tell you from experience that Parity is one of the reasons that has helped to drive spectators away from NHRA Drag Racing.

Would it matter to the casual spectator if Pro Stock Bike were dropped from the 2013 schedule, NO. Sure there'd be a few on this board who would scream, but NHRA needs to move to the business model adopted by IHRA, a two day Pro Show in a traveling circus, eight car fields with one day of qualifying - one day of eliminations. Pro Top Fuel, Pro Funny Car, Pro Stock, Pro Mod and Nitro Harley. Nitro is what people pay money for, Pro Stock is today's multi-millionaire golf game, nothing more - nothing less and is a big enough throwback that a few spectators will stick around.

There is plenty of drag racing for everyone outside of the NHRA Big Tent Circus, the BIG Show is no longer attainable for anyone without incredibly deep-pocket connections, make it a Pro Only Show and move on from the past. NHRA can exert Parity to the best of their abilities and everyone can get a Wally.

Cynical, maybe... Realist, always.

 

[Raconteur]

The nitro teams are wide open and it's more talent and money.

 

[Rat]

Chris, the NHRA has most recently been a sanctioning body of appeasement with large wallets always getting the attention of the Suits in Glendora. You can think and feel what you wish, but I can tell you from experience that Parity is one of the reasons that has helped to drive spectators away from NHRA Drag Racing.

Would it matter to the casual spectator if Pro Stock Bike were dropped from the 2013 schedule, NO. Sure there'd be a few on this board who would scream, but NHRA needs to move to the business model adopted by IHRA, a two day Pro Show in a traveling circus, eight car fields with one day of qualifying - one day of eliminations. Pro Top Fuel, Pro Funny Car, Pro Stock, Pro Mod and Nitro Harley. Nitro is what people pay money for, Pro Stock is today's multi-millionaire golf game, nothing more - nothing less and is a big enough throwback that a few spectators will stick around.

There is plenty of drag racing for everyone outside of the NHRA Big Tent Circus, the BIG Show is no longer attainable for anyone without incredibly deep-pocket connections, make it a Pro Only Show and move on from the past. NHRA can exert Parity to the best of their abilities and everyone can get a Wally.

Cynical, maybe... Realist, always.

NHRA not running something similar to what IHRA all over the place program is not what the issue is. I have to disagree with you completely because parity is not what drives the fans away, it actually does the opposite. Let me give you some evidence. What do you think the countdown is? It's parity without going into the rulebook picking apart equipment. Most people love the countdown, most people love to watch a class where you dont know who is going to win. Look at nascar, the driver is the only variable and look at the popularity.

For drag racing to sell it has nothing to do about NHRA's show. It's about the lack of parity, fans get pissed when the same car wins all the time. For every single class for every single winner that the fans love, there is an equal amount of fans that rooted for the other guy. Winning streaks can get people board no matter how impressive it is. Pro-stock was a sleeper when Anderson won almost every single round. Top-Fuel was boring to people any time it was another final with the army car. Same can be said with the John Force era.

Fans want to see a class where it is wide open and it's clear that TF and FC is alot more unpredictable in the last 2 years than it's been in 10. There are more cars than have what it takes to challenge for the wally and that's what fans like to see. No i'm not gonna talk outta my ass and say any 16 on sunday can win cause that's just not true, but 5-7 can and that's more than it was.

Bottom line: IHRA has no place here. It's all about the need for parity and more importantly above everything, fans don't want to have to pay 60 bucks and up on sunday to see it in person. I understand some tracks have deals, but not enough is being done. Glendora needs to wake up and see that it's nothing but price and lack of parity affecting profit.

 

[Raconteur]

dream on Patrick...

 

[Toejam]

Come on Joe, dont tell me you dont remember Franklin Ratcliffe or Ratliff or whatever the hell it was.

I thought he was the Propster dude?

 

[Rat]

dream on Patrick...

Your telling me to dream on and anyone that thinks otherwise to what you posted based on what? Your opinion? Why should I agree with empty claims that parity drives away fans and the NHRA needs to model the IHRA when you provide nothing but the attitude that you somehow know and that it right. Ok so if you know expand on it. Yea I wrote nothing but an opinion but it's a lot easier to make sense out of the reasons i provided. Instead of just trying to discredit my right to post my view, why dont you offer up how or why you claim what you know is the surefire reasons. What's your evidence on parity having a negative result on the fans? Fans want to see tight, close racing that gives more than 2-3 teams a chance to win on sunday, but your telling me i'm wrong.

 

[Raconteur]

Your telling me to dream on and anyone that thinks otherwise to what you posted based on what? Your opinion? Why should I agree with empty claims that parity drives away fans and the NHRA needs to model the IHRA when you provide nothing but the attitude that you somehow know and that it right. Ok so if you know expand on it. Yea I wrote nothing but an opinion but it's a lot easier to make sense out of the reasons i provided. Instead of just trying to discredit my right to post my view, why dont you offer up how or why you claim what you know is the surefire reasons. What's your evidence on parity having a negative result on the fans? Fans want to see tight, close racing that gives more than 2-3 teams a chance to win on sunday, but your telling me i'm wrong.

Patrick, I apologize, I was sucked into your Keenan vortex... my mistake. I don't want to play.

 

[e]

.....Yeah Joe, 'ol Franklin was the propster dude.....Wonder what ever happened to him ??.....Haven't heard about him in several years......
.....Patrick, have to agree with you about the NHRA not modeling thereselves like the IHRA......Think that would really be a disaster..........E

 

[twostep]

What's your evidence on parity having a negative result on the fans?

It's not the parity that's running fans off, it's the lack of variety. Parity is fine, up to a point. Not allowing Don Schumacher to run his rollcage shroud at last year's last two races, because no one else showed up with this $25 piece of sheetmetal that takes all of about 30 minutes to install, was idiocy carried to an unheard of level, in my opinion. But the lack of variety is what kills fan appeal of classes like Pro Stock Car. Everybody heads for the head and the concession stand when these guys come to the line.

Why? Because despite the tight racing and amazing performance, considering they're limited to 500-inch NA engines on gas, to the average fan they're boring as hell. Hardcore drag racers such as ourselves enjoy it, because we appreciate all the technology involved - but to the average fan, it's GXP after GXP after GXP, running the same, sounding the same, looking the same, run after run after run. It's not parity per se that hurts this class - it's inflexible rules that allow no variety. I absolutely love Comp Elim for the same reasons I don't love Pro Stock - variety. To me, the only time that Pro Stock was REALLY exciting is when Buddy Ingersoll ran that turbo V6 Buick 25 years ago. It never won a race - but it was something different and the fans thought it was the greatest thing since pockets on a shirt.

As to some of your other comments, it's not feasible to split TAD for the reason posted earlier - the fields are too small. AFD's don't always win anyway...the blower cars are right there, running 5.20s along with the fuel guys. ProMod is doing well; they've got the parity worked out quite well, it's anybody's guess as to what combination will win and the fans love the class, one, because it's wild 'n wooly, but again - there's so much variety in ProMod. Splitting it would kill it, graveyard dead.

All the above is what works for me. If it doesn't for you, hey, I don't have a problem with that at all. If NHRA decides to parity a class to death, or do what they've done to PSM, I have the option to watch it or go get a hot dog. Ain't no reason for us to sit here and squabble about it, right?

After all is said and done, it's still drag racing, and despite its faults, it's kind of like sex. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good.

 

[Bill]

The ideal for "parity" in Pro Stock Bike would be that every motorcycle in competition has to pull the same pounds per cubic inch.

That's "Parity." That's what we have in Pro Stock, Top Fuel and Fuel Funny Car.

It's not Suzuki's fault that Harley Davidson engine design technology is based on an 80-year-old antique; one that was flawed from the git-go.

How close would the racing be, if the PS Harleys had to weigh 900 pounds?

That's what they would have to weigh, if PSM were adjudicated like the other Pro classes.

The Emperor has NO CLOTHES... except that NHRA has apparently been bought and paid for by Harley Davidson, and this is the result; Harley-design domination through Draconian legislation, and NHRA manages to keep a lid on it for them.

In respect to that, have you EVER heard an announcer at an NHRA national event point out to the fans that the Jap bikes have to pull 50+-percent more weight-per cubic-inch down the track, than the ALL AMERICAN HARLEYS????

I haven't.... wonder why?

No... I don't... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Parity; NHRA jumped on the turbocharged Pro Mods with BOTH FEET as soon as they started winning a couple of races. No matter that they went for years, in R & D, trying to get those cars competitive, never winning a thing.

This current H-D charade has been going on in PSM for a long time...

When NHRA WANTS "parity," they make it happen. Instantly.

When they don't, to say that you're wasting your breath even discussing it, it to seriously under-state the case.

They do what they WANT to do... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[none]

The ideal for "parity" in Pro Stock Bike would be that every motorcycle in competition has to pull the same pounds per cubic inch.

That's "Parity." That's what we have in Pro Stock, Top Fuel and Fuel Funny Car.

It's not Suzuki's fault that Harley Davidson engine design technology is based on an 80-year-old antique; one that was flawed from the git-go.

How close would the racing be, if the PS Harleys had to weigh 900 pounds?

That's what they would have to weigh, if PSM were adjudicated like the other Pro classes.

The Emperor has NO CLOTHES... except that NHRA has apparently been bought and paid for by Harley Davidson, and this is the result; Harley-design domination through Draconian legislation, and NHRA manages to keep a lid on it for them.

In respect to that, have you EVER heard an announcer at an NHRA national event point out to the fans that the Jap bikes have to pull 50+-percent more weight-per cubic-inch down the track, than the ALL AMERICAN HARLEYS????

I haven't.... wonder why?

No... I don't... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Parity; NHRA jumped on the turbocharged Pro Mods with BOTH FEET as soon as they started winning a couple of races. No matter that they went for years, in R & D, trying to get those cars competitive, never winning a thing.

This current H-D charade has been going on in PSM for a long time...

When NHRA WANTS "parity," they make it happen. Instantly.

When they don't, to say that you're wasting your breath even discussing it, it to seriously under-state the case.

They do what they WANT to do... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Bill...... I would say you pretty much nailed it with that post, great job.

 

[Rat]

Patrick, I apologize, I was sucked into your Keenan vortex... my mistake. I don't want to play.

Then dont try to make a point your too lazy to defend

 

[Rat]

Just for the record the whole idea about splitting up PM or TAD was my explanation of how to fix parity issues. It's not what I feel should be done as I am someone who feels that 1 class should be accessible for all.

So we have come to the conclusion that it's not V&H, it's just because they are the lucky 2 teams that get to benefit. It's harder to figure out if the NHRA is bending the rules for HD because of the close to 700,000 dollar check, or if HD is writing rulebook ownership in the check memo. Either way it's a damn shame that the current NHRA Brass can be bought to ruin the racedays of many different teams. Fire them all and have people in the offices who have a spine and use honesty and integrity to run the sport.

 

[FABMAN]

the ideal for "parity" in pro stock bike would be that every motorcycle in competition has to pull the same pounds per cubic inch.

That's "parity." that's what we have in pro stock, top fuel and fuel funny car.

It's not suzuki's fault that harley davidson engine design technology is based on an 80-year-old antique; one that was flawed from the git-go.

How close would the racing be, if the ps harleys had to weigh 900 pounds?

That's what they would have to weigh, if psm were adjudicated like the other pro classes.

The emperor has no clothes... Except that nhra has apparently been bought and paid for by harley davidson, and this is the result; harley-design domination through draconian legislation, and nhra manages to keep a lid on it for them.

In respect to that, have you ever heard an announcer at an nhra national event point out to the fans that the jap bikes have to pull 50+-percent more weight-per cubic-inch down the track, than the all american harleys????

I haven't.... Wonder why?

No... I don't... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

parity; nhra jumped on the turbocharged pro mods with both feet as soon as they started winning a couple of races. No matter that they went for years, in r & d, trying to get those cars competitive, never winning a thing.

This current h-d charade has been going on in psm for a long time...

When nhra wants "parity," they make it happen. Instantly.

When they don't, to say that you're wasting your breath even discussing it, it to seriously under-state the case.

They do what they want to do... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

nailed it !!