Pro Classes in Divisional Races (2 Viewers)

[Lyle]

i’m not sure why, but I’ve always been curious about the idea of Pro Classes competing at division races!
I began following the sport in the early 90s and wasn’t really aware until recently that the pro classes used to compete in the Divisional races, that, at least for the last 30 plus years have been exclusively the domain of the sportsman classes.
All I really know is that in the mid 70s when the NHRA switched to a points based championship system, National Event points earned were worth double those earned in divisional races.

So I’ve become curious about the topic: when did the divisional races become Sportsman only?
When were the regional based divisions created?
Were they always the same or have they been realigned?
How many Divisional races were run per during a typical year?

Any other stories related to this topic is is greatly welcomed as well!

Tony -

I can address a couple of your questions and tell a story directly related to the discontinuation of the Pros at divisionals. I think the regions were started in the early-mid 1960s. There have been quite a few realignments over the years. For example, I _think_ there was a time where Div 6 and 7 were combined. But that didn't last long. Closer to home for me, Albuquerque was in Div 4 for many decades (including hosting a Div 4 WCS in 72 and 73). In a story much too long to type, there came a time where NM was cut in half and the northern part (i.e., ABQ) was moved to Div 7, while the southern part (i.e., Roswell, NM) was retained in Div 4.
As far as the number of events, this has varied by year and by division. Back in the day, when I chased points, there was usually 6 or 7 per division but you could only use points from 5. Lots of nuances to the system that again I don't have the patience to type.
As for the story, I had a friend who had run a competitive Pro Comp car in the mid-late 70s. He wanted to run TF and made the switch. He knew he didn't have the budget or manpower to run national events, so he concentrated on running TF at divisional races. He did this in 1980, 1981 and 1982. I believe that it was 1983 that NHRA dropped the Pros from divisionals. And that was, sadly, the end of my friends TF career, knowing his operation was not geared for national events.

Great topic!

Lyle Greenberg

 

[Cliff]

Lyle, I always remember some hard running Alky cars from Albuquerque (I can still spell that). T/AD & TA/FC. I first saw you run at the old Speedworld in Phoenix, at Div 7 race. You had the Daytona TA/FC. When I was in the Air Force, was stationed at Walker AFB in Roswell, NM. We used to go to Albuq on the weekends, cuz it was the Big City in NM. We had a drag strip on the base, old runway. I think it ran about a year. Had a match race once around 1966. Orange Blossem Special altered wheelbase Dodge (?) from Las Cruces VS a Ford Mustang w/ supercharged engine from Phoenix. The Dodge won 3 straight, running 10's while the Mustang smoked the tires all 3 runs. Am thinking it wasn't that uncommon for drag strips to be located on an Air Force base. Davis Mothan in Tucson, the old Speed Sport set a record there in late 1950's. The current Tucson track has a depiction of the Speed Sport roadster on the tower.

 

[Nunz]

It was the first Moody car, back motor, had a mono strut w/ wing on top, & the chute on top of the wing. The 5.91 car was the 2nd Moody car. They sold the first car to Lyle Dill (was the driver Vic Brown???) and that was the car that beat Mike Snively (on a hole shot) at Ontario, when Snively ran that 5.97. Look at article below, about 1/2 way thru the article.

Front to back: The rear-engine transition, Part 2

Don Garlits showed that the rear-engine design was here to stay with a powerful victory at the 1971 NHRA Winternationals.

www.nhra.com

Thanks Cliff. Now it makes sense that I confused the cars, since it was Moody's first car that had the mono wing, and it was indeed Vic Brown driving it at the races I remember. LONG time ago!

 

[Pomona1320]

Tony -

I can address a couple of your questions and tell a story directly related to the discontinuation of the Pros at divisionals. I think the regions were started in the early-mid 1960s. There have been quite a few realignments over the years. For example, I _think_ there was a time where Div 6 and 7 were combined. But that didn't last long. Closer to home for me, Albuquerque was in Div 4 for many decades (including hosting a Div 4 WCS in 72 and 73). In a story much too long to type, there came a time where NM was cut in half and the northern part (i.e., ABQ) was moved to Div 7, while the southern part (i.e., Roswell, NM) was retained in Div 4.
As far as the number of events, this has varied by year and by division. Back in the day, when I chased points, there was usually 6 or 7 per division but you could only use points from 5. Lots of nuances to the system that again I don't have the patience to type.
As for the story, I had a friend who had run a competitive Pro Comp car in the mid-late 70s. He wanted to run TF and made the switch. He knew he didn't have the budget or manpower to run national events, so he concentrated on running TF at divisional races. He did this in 1980, 1981 and 1982. I believe that it was 1983 that NHRA dropped the Pros from divisionals. And that was, sadly, the end of my friends TF career, knowing his operation was not geared for national events.

Great topic!

Lyle Greenberg

Awesome! This gave me tremendous insight into just about all my questions, especially when the NHRA dropped the pros from divisional. Any idea what reasoning behind that? Too full a calender? I think they were up to 12 or 13 national events by ‘83

I’m curious what tracks were primarily used for the D7 races during that era? I figure Orange County had to be an annual host, Bakersfield, perhaps Fremont… I believe Sacramento was at one point…

 

[Cliff]

Irwindale was one track in 1970's (closed 1977), and OCIR. Fremont. probably Sacramento, I know Bakersfield in the 80's ran Div 7, before the Nostalgia cars took over.The year OCIR closed, I had already moved to Arizona, & I went to the last Div 7 race they had there. The late Mark Niver from Phoenix won T/AD (his 1st divisional) & Bad Brad Anderson won TA/FC. I'd wanted to go to the Divisional cuz not that many spectators & I had time to roam around for one last time.

 

[Gone Dead Train]

Went to Bakersfield, Div 7 race April 1993. There was still a ton of alcohol cars, out here on the coast.
It was a 16 car field in TAD and TAFC. If I remember 24 TAD and 21 alky funny cars showed up. I do
remember some guy in a Chevy powered TAD won ( I think he went on to have a pretty good career, I think)

 

[sutton]

Went to Bakersfield, Div 7 race April 1993. There was still a ton of alcohol cars, out here on the coast.
It was a 16 car field in TAD and TAFC. If I remember 24 TAD and 21 alky funny cars showed up. I do
remember some guy in a Chevy powered TAD won ( I think he went on to have a pretty good career, I think)

View attachment 11935

I was racing TAD during the 90s and to say "A GUY IN CHEVY WENT ON TO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD CAREER" is a major understatement. Rick Santos was in the most Bad ass car in TAD at that time. Rick was also one of the best drivers of all times in TAD. I raced him many times won some lost some, But the powers to be found a way to make it so the car was not compatible and they retired.
Larry Sutton---Lions Starter and racer (RET.)

 

[Cliff]

The Santos car (S & S) with the small block Chevy ran 5.69 if I remember right, until the rules pretty much made it Chrysler only. Saw him race many times, 4 X world champ in T/AD with the Chrysler motor, ran 5.30 over 25 years ago.
Larry, 2 treasures I have from you. One is a Lions reproduction T-Shirt that you autographed. Maybe that was Vegas in 1990's? The other is a never worn t-shirt, Team Green T/AD, Darien-Meadows-Sutton. Has a depiction of the T/AD you drove, and you won the Div 7 race at Vegas that year.

 

[sutton]

Cliff
I thought that most of my shirts were being used for rags by now, LOL Glad and honored you still have one. The Santos family were great racers could make that small block hall A. it was the best running small block I had ever seen and Rick was a killer on the lights. when the powers made the changes I was shocked and not happy, they were just trying to make some complainers happy. The Santos family were very good friends of mine and I spent a lot of time with them away for the races.
Larry Sutton---Lions Starter

 

[Custom Body Fan]

If you ran (say) T/F and won Div 7, you would have the number 71 on the car. 7= div 7 and 1 = div champ. I'm ta;ling 1970's when there weren't that many Nat'l events.

So funny for me to just read this now. I was watching YouTube earlier today and saw Tom Prock in the Custom Body F/C, and it had #11 on it. I was thinking "I doubt Prock finished 11th in the points, wonder how he got #11?" Now I know!! Thanks.

 

[Pete]

I've thought for a while and we've talked about it here, but NHRA should look at adding a small pro show at certain divisionals to help draw in crowds or bring new people to the sport. I don't mean tracks that have nationals also, but a Cecil County Dragway or SGMP...not a big show, maybe just 4 of each pro category

 

[M Jones]

I've thought for a while and we've talked about it here, but NHRA should look at adding a small pro show at certain divisionals to help draw in crowds or bring new people to the sport. I don't mean tracks that have nationals also, but a Cecil County Dragway or SGMP...not a big show, maybe just 4 of each pro category

How would the pros justify the extra cost for no national points or how would you work in points for small races and big races, I like the idea but see conflicts with the overall logistics

 

[Butch]

How about the lower funded teams run at Divisional races. That would help them and draw fans to see nitro.

 

[mick]

nhra has enough trouble running a 20+ nat. event series without bye runs.
the notion of pros once again running at divisionals is a bad one.

 

[Pete]

nhra has enough trouble running a 20+ nat. event series without bye runs.
the notion of pros once again running at divisionals is a bad one.

just my opinion, but if they did formally bring the pros back to the divisional level, I think you'd see more regional teams pop up

 

[mick]

and who is going to pay the 'regional' teams to show up and race at divisionals? there is barely any money to pay the pros at the nat. events.
maybe they'll get a bunch of sponsors to pony up sum cash and run for that?.......oh wait, that's already happening; sportsman have many non-nhra events
to run for more money than divisionals pay.......and what if a 'regional' team puked the track? oh, that would go over really good with non-nat. event
clean up crew on hand. ....... 'i'm sorry, due to the nitro oil-down, and impending track curfew, the semis and finals of all classes will be contested tomorrow' (monday)

 

[mick]

IMO the regional divisionals that host the alcohol classes should try to promote their entertainment value to attract more spectators, especially
with new rules pkg. allowing nitro injected FC's. also IMO, if the alcohol classes could find a sponsor just for them, either just at regionals, or regionals
and select nationals they race at, so the term 'alcohol' can and should be dropped from naming the classes, and instead call them something else,
like lucas oil dragster and lucas oil funny car.

 

[mick]

and 37 divisional races will stream live, and free, on youtube in '23 ........ and the season starts with a few cars down the track in orlando,
followed by a rainout.

 

[Nappy]

IMO the regional divisionals that host the alcohol classes should try to promote their entertainment value to attract more spectators, especially
with new rules pkg. allowing nitro injected FC's. also IMO, if the alcohol classes could find a sponsor just for them, either just at regionals, or regionals
and select nationals they race at, so the term 'alcohol' can and should be dropped from naming the classes, and instead call them something else,
like lucas oil dragster and lucas oil funny car.

IMO leave the NHRA TAD and TAFC class names as is. When it was changed to Federal Mogul Dragster and Funny Car it kind of lost its identity. Just my opinion though.

 

[mick]

IMO leave the NHRA TAD and TAFC class names as is. When it was changed to Federal Mogul Dragster and Funny Car it kind of lost its identity. Just my opinion though.

yeah, you're rite kevin, it is kind of splitting hairs........maybe just TD and TFC