The Hour long delays are back....
- Thread starter Toejam
- Start date
Gordon
Nitro Member
FWIW, many of us have argued about the safety of the tracks, cars, etc. time and time again... But in the end, drivers know (and assume) the risk (and there are a variety of them that change in importance from facility to facility) each and every time they strap into the car. Conversely, we continue to watch, so in a way, we've decided to accept the risk as well.
Should people continue to look for and be open to new ideas & improvements, both to the vehicles as well as the racing surface, shutdown area, etc.? Sure, of course they should. But to complain about a one hour delay after the equipment did exactly what it was designed to do and allowed the driver to walk away unscathed is probably not necessary - again, it's a risk we accept as fans. Me personally, I don't like delays... but I hate losing my heroes even more, whether I've accepted the risk or not. Just my $0.02
As an interesting side note - when an aircraft can't use the arresting cables to land at sea (for whatever reason), we use a giant net just like they do for race cars... and it works. The aircraft weighs a lot more than a race car, but it's generally flying a lot slower (150 knots or less - usually). That said, it has to stop the jet in a very, very short space or the jet goes over the side in front of the ship's angle deck... which is obviously bad for the aircraft, the pilot and the ship. I was aboard USS Constellation in 1999 when we barricaded an F/A-18 at night because he had one engine fail (shut down altogether) and the other kept experiencing compressor stalls. The pilot actually had to keep popping in and out of afterburner WHILE DESCENDING TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE SHIP AT NIGHT. Impressive piece of flying if I ever I saw one.
Should people continue to look for and be open to new ideas & improvements, both to the vehicles as well as the racing surface, shutdown area, etc.? Sure, of course they should. But to complain about a one hour delay after the equipment did exactly what it was designed to do and allowed the driver to walk away unscathed is probably not necessary - again, it's a risk we accept as fans. Me personally, I don't like delays... but I hate losing my heroes even more, whether I've accepted the risk or not. Just my $0.02
As an interesting side note - when an aircraft can't use the arresting cables to land at sea (for whatever reason), we use a giant net just like they do for race cars... and it works. The aircraft weighs a lot more than a race car, but it's generally flying a lot slower (150 knots or less - usually). That said, it has to stop the jet in a very, very short space or the jet goes over the side in front of the ship's angle deck... which is obviously bad for the aircraft, the pilot and the ship. I was aboard USS Constellation in 1999 when we barricaded an F/A-18 at night because he had one engine fail (shut down altogether) and the other kept experiencing compressor stalls. The pilot actually had to keep popping in and out of afterburner WHILE DESCENDING TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE SHIP AT NIGHT. Impressive piece of flying if I ever I saw one.
Professional Fan
Nitro Member
I spoke to Gary at prerace ceremonies on Sunday and he was going to make every effort to put a new car together, maybe in time for Vegas! Don't know if that was wishful thinking or not. I do know the crew was busy Sunday trying to salvage everything they could from the old car. I guess when racing is really in your blood it never leaves you!
willy
Nitro Member
I wasn't aware of that, Marc. My sincere apologies to everyone.
- Thread starter
- #46
Your right Jim, I was down walking around and didn't hear what happened! But had this happened during a Live show, what does NHRA do?
- Thread starter
- #47
When it comes to failed Chutes, your talkin Pomona, Norwalk, Vegas and E-Town!
turbo ken
Nitro Member
It didn't look plowed up to me, looked like you could have set a land speed record on it.
Rajunz
Nitro Member
If not, that's just as much the racer's fault as anyone elses. They all walk (inspect) the tracks before hand. It sure looks like he drove right over it though.
You guys do realize that NHRA is on property as early as Tuesday prior to most events. The checklist of activities required to be completed by the track staff prior to NHRA arrival and the list NHRA is responsible for is extensive and never compromised or pencil whipped.
Does anyone really believe a facility would sit idle all winter or for any extended period of time between NHRA events and there not be an inspection and action plan to prepare for the event?
Jim is absolutely right!
Another thing to take into consideration here is that when a car enters the "emergency" area, the kitty litter is only effective up to a certain speed, then it's the job of the net and the water barrels to do their job. IIRC, Densham entered the kitty litter at speeds over 200mph....in that case, the kitty litter will still slow the car, but you cannot expect it to stop it before hitting the nets. I spend a lot of time at the lake waterskiing and wakeboarding, and I always think about when I fall how different the water feels at different speeds. If I fall going slower, the water just grabs me, but if I fall going faster, the water feels like hitting concrete and I just skip along the water until my speed is shaved off. I would imagine that the kitty litter is the same way, but we're talking about cars hitting it at ridiculously fast speeds.
I'll stop rambling now!
Jimbo
Nitro Member
Everyone who has offered their comments is RIGHT but how do we solve the problem so that it does not happen again?
The comments made about Pomona and the sand trap not being properly prepared and the same comments that were made about Englishtown a few years ago.
The real question is how to fix this problem before someone else looses their life?
Should a group of races along with the N.H.R.A. officials sit down and work on plans to solve the problem?
Just my opinion.
Jim Hill
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
The comments made about Pomona and the sand trap not being properly prepared and the same comments that were made about Englishtown a few years ago.
The real question is how to fix this problem before someone else looses their life?
Should a group of races along with the N.H.R.A. officials sit down and work on plans to solve the problem?
Just my opinion.
Jim Hill
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com
turbo ken
Nitro Member
I was thinking about something like the track in Australia has, where the net is attached to something on each end that can move so the net doesn't spring back. The spring back of the net seems to cause the most damage, and puts the driver in the most danger. If the first net were to allow the car to go about 10' into the second net, the first net would have slowed the car down a lot. The way it is right now it looks they are trying to stop a car in the first net in what seems like 10' so they don't have to re-setup the entire trap, and both catch nets.
DrRocket
Nitro Member
You mean like the arresting gear of an aircraft carrier?
Gordon
Nitro Member
Everything mechanical is subject to failure... like parachutes on a race car, which is what led to Gary ending up in the sand to begin with. So lets say NHRA installed an arresting cable - and for the record I think it's a terrible idea - what happens when the hook release mechanism on a race car (gonna need a hook if you're going to have a cable) fails? On an aircraft carrier those arresting gear wires are held four inches off the deck by springs. How many funny cars have four inches of ground clearance at the nose? Lower the wire you say? Okay, then you greatly reduce the ability of the hook to engage it because if the car is bouncing (as most are at that point) it's difficult to keep the hook down. Sure, you could add a spring or some other mechanism to hold the hook down, but that's more weight and space at the back of the car. Or what happens if the nose of the car happens to engage the wire inadvertently? What's the outcome then? Is an arresting cable system possible? Sure, anything is possible I suppose, but in my mind it just isn't necessary.
We seem to act as if there's a way to prevent all crashes/mishaps in the future. There isn't - see: my opening sentence. Most folks involved in the sport are dedicated to managing the risks as best as they're able, but in the end racers and crews accept the risk. If they didn't - John Force racing would've folded like a cheap suit after we lost Eric. Alan Johnson would've walked away after we lost Blaine. Kalitta racing would've ceased to exist after we lost Scott. You get the idea.
The fact is, though they're scary and dangerous, the catch nets result in many more folks walking away than loss of life. Alexis Dejoria, Mike Dunn, Del Worsham & Gary Densham to name a few off the top of my head. And the sand is a crap shoot at best and contains too many variables to count. Anybody remember when Force flipped it on it's lid at Pomona?
The only really safe alternative would be to stop racing at the shorter facilities altogether... but then there'd be a thread with people from those regions screaming about the loss of nitro racing in their area. Or, as has been discussed many times in the past - have different length races based on shutdown area. Pomona, E-Town, etc. are 1/8th mile races, while AZ, Gainesville, etc. are 1/4 mile races and everything in between is 1,000'. We seem to model everything we do after NASCAR and they race different lengths and shapes, so why not?
We seem to act as if there's a way to prevent all crashes/mishaps in the future. There isn't - see: my opening sentence. Most folks involved in the sport are dedicated to managing the risks as best as they're able, but in the end racers and crews accept the risk. If they didn't - John Force racing would've folded like a cheap suit after we lost Eric. Alan Johnson would've walked away after we lost Blaine. Kalitta racing would've ceased to exist after we lost Scott. You get the idea.
The fact is, though they're scary and dangerous, the catch nets result in many more folks walking away than loss of life. Alexis Dejoria, Mike Dunn, Del Worsham & Gary Densham to name a few off the top of my head. And the sand is a crap shoot at best and contains too many variables to count. Anybody remember when Force flipped it on it's lid at Pomona?
The only really safe alternative would be to stop racing at the shorter facilities altogether... but then there'd be a thread with people from those regions screaming about the loss of nitro racing in their area. Or, as has been discussed many times in the past - have different length races based on shutdown area. Pomona, E-Town, etc. are 1/8th mile races, while AZ, Gainesville, etc. are 1/4 mile races and everything in between is 1,000'. We seem to model everything we do after NASCAR and they race different lengths and shapes, so why not?
Jimbo
Nitro Member
Gordon
Nitro Member
I don't think a solution is needed. The net in this case did exactly what it's designed to do - Gary walked away.
I think far too often we want to create solutions to issues that don't necessarily need solutions and in doing so we forget that a lot of the time solutions bring with them unintended consequences.
Lets face it, for years we all thought the catch net was the greatest thing ever... lots of drivers went careening into them and walked away unscathed. Then, tragically, we lost Scott Kalitta, Mark Niver & Neal Parker. Tragic, no doubt, and my heart certainly goes out to their families. But now, all of a sudden - after the net once again did precisely what it was designed to do - we wanna reinvent the wheel? And how many fatalities have occurred on drag strips in all categories that had absolutely nothing to do with the net?
My point is, as I have stated before, drag racing involves risk - no matter how much the sanctioning body and/or the racers do to "improve" safety, there's an inherent risk to accelerating as quickly and fast as you're able. Each and every racer knows and accepts that risk. Furthermore, and admittedly I'm only guessing here, the drivers appear to be alright with them the way they are. No outcry from Densham or anyone else that I'm aware of after his incident at Pomona. And if I've learned anything in my years of watching NHRA Drag Racing it's that when the drivers don't like something we most certainly hear about it. Remember the new "system" for funny car bodies? Or how about the initial driver reaction to the 4-wide?
turbo ken
Nitro Member
