Sounds like good things for top fuel and fuel funny car next year. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mooseman
- Start date
Nitrohelper
Nitro Member
One magneto solves all , yes they slow down but anything over 300 mph is ok. No new parts to buy plus more spare mags
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Easy to tech, no meters needed,eyes only. Half the spark plugs and wires to take in&out between warm-ups &rounds.
Back to 100 % ( most ran less than 95% anyway), and the pump size / blower speed will be controlled by tune-up. No rev limiters to screw-up and shoot the blower off, back to different combinations and tune-ups. And a BIG bonus, the cackle will be back ! !
Let the tuner or the driver hurt the engine ,not electronics. Drivers can lift when it noses over.
Now they are Nitro Pro Stocks, all run the same nitro, blower speed, compression , gear ratio, wing angle ,etc ,etc.
You tune by head gaskets and palm pilots.
Plus everybody will start out with new tune-ups, the semi trailers full of data by the big money (multi-car) teams isn't as dominant. Yes the old guy tuners from the 80's will have a small advantage,but the cars, tires, and clutch discs are different now, plus the blowers are much better, maybe you wouldn't have to strip them every run.
Go back to air timers only ,no need for computer geeks chasing wires, you can't easily have traction control without electronics.
.Easy to tech, no meters needed,eyes only. Half the spark plugs and wires to take in&out between warm-ups &rounds.
Back to 100 % ( most ran less than 95% anyway), and the pump size / blower speed will be controlled by tune-up. No rev limiters to screw-up and shoot the blower off, back to different combinations and tune-ups. And a BIG bonus, the cackle will be back ! !
Let the tuner or the driver hurt the engine ,not electronics. Drivers can lift when it noses over.
Now they are Nitro Pro Stocks, all run the same nitro, blower speed, compression , gear ratio, wing angle ,etc ,etc.
You tune by head gaskets and palm pilots.
Plus everybody will start out with new tune-ups, the semi trailers full of data by the big money (multi-car) teams isn't as dominant.
Yes the old guy tuners from the 80's will have a small advantage,but the cars, tires, and clutch discs are different now, plus the blowers are much better, maybe you wouldn't have to strip them every run. Go back to air timers only ,no need for computer geeks chasing wires, you can't easily have traction control without electronics.
T.Smith
Nitro Member
I know he's been lobbied, but my guess is, Bernstein running 330mph at Denver last year killed it.Since Ray Alley has the same background as Dan Olson. One can only assume that Ray Alley knew about the growing costs of the 85% rule. Did he ever try to address that problem? Or did NHRA just tell him to bad?
T.Smith
Nitro Member
Well from experience, the deal is a bit easier on parts when running on 90%. It's easier to make power with 90%. The higher percentage allows you to run less compression, less o.d., and less lead. I believe 85% has lead to some of these teams running some pretty wild camshafts too.
I'd like to see NHRA go to 3 qualifying runs and limit Monday testing.
A 2.90 gear may not be a bad idea either, 330mph at 8600rpm is nuts.
This may all keep the costs down a bit, but lets never forget the attention to detail and the personnel it takes to run one of these cars. The higher funded/multi car teams will always have the advantage in this area. Pulling a mag off, taking off electronics is not going to allow you to out run the Army or Castrol car. Being smart, hard work, attention to detail and proper funding will.
I'd like to see NHRA go to 3 qualifying runs and limit Monday testing.
A 2.90 gear may not be a bad idea either, 330mph at 8600rpm is nuts.
This may all keep the costs down a bit, but lets never forget the attention to detail and the personnel it takes to run one of these cars. The higher funded/multi car teams will always have the advantage in this area. Pulling a mag off, taking off electronics is not going to allow you to out run the Army or Castrol car. Being smart, hard work, attention to detail and proper funding will.
Nitrohelper
Nitro Member
My saying was "we aren't racing cars, we're racing wallets" ! However if we increase the number of lower funded teams by having a more realistic cost per run, then the sport is stronger. When I would race Coil on a slippery track ,I didn't worry that we only had two spare motors to his six, because I wasn't going to use a motor per run. In any motorsport the better funded teams will always lead. I believe that reducing the overall operating cost helps everybody. There is a lot more half million dollar deals available than five million dollar multi-year packages.
How many more times a year could the Zizzo team run if your cost was half? If you could go to all the IHRA races, your chances of more wins is increased. As a bonus you would get to spend more time with Settles!
On the fuel volume subject that some have suggested, In my 40 plus years of Nitro addiction ,not having enough fuel volume is never good. The scuffed pistons , burnt valves, & black bearings make for a long weekend.
The switch in the '80s from an 18 gal. gray pump to the Waterman 26 gal. Big Red was like heaven (a least for a while) we could run three laps ,and not take the heads off. Of course you know "the rest of the story", bigger blower, bigger heads, more percentage, etc.
The VRA is a perfect example of what not to do, 20 gal. pump & a 44 amp mag ! Look at the difference with a points mag in the funny cars! Now go to a 30 gal. pump and they would be back to not taking the heads off every run. Control the Air & Spark, and the fuel volume will be self controlling (hello dropped cylinders) !
"Nitro is powerful solvent, It dissolves family fortunes & marriages very quickly"
( newman original,you can use it)
T.Smith
Nitro Member
Damnyankee, how is that a ridiculous idea? IHRA runs a 3 qualifier format, seems to work fine for them. I would hope the Friday ticket price would go down. Nextell Cup, Champ Car, IRL and F1 all pretty much have their practice sessions and qualifing wittled down. To me thats an easy change.
Adding a another qualifying session in IHRA would cost us at least another $100K for the season. My guess would be $200-300K on the NHRA side.
Maybe the Yankee's should play 7 innings, especially with them dead arms they got in the bull pin.
Bobby
Nitro Member
you know the price of tickets would not go down. one less qualifying session means the fans get less for their money. if the nhra can't get a handle on costs some other way, what happens next when costs need to be reduced again? lose another session? who cares what other motorsports do. qualifying at indy car races is a major bore, which is why no one is there to watch them ,and why they aren't televised.
F1 qualifying was quite boring for several years too although it is better now.
F1 has talked about reducing the practice sessions on friday but they've also talked about creating incentives to ensure that friday has more entertainment value for fans than it has had.
IHRA? IHRA is a notch below the NHRA and everyone knows it. You pay a lot less for tickets there, but you get the great saturday night jet wheelstander extravaganza, which I 'm betting makes up the shorter qualifying format. I dont' know since they aren't running in florida anymore I wish they would come back.
My thought is there are better ways. IT's not like the fuel cars are running NASA technology out there. outside of funny car bodies.
reduce costs by turning back the clock. fans in the stands don't give a damn if they run 4.4s or 5.4. single mag smaller fuel pump. whatever.
trust me we don't care. we just want to see those fire breathing monsters thundering down the track. they've gotten so quick it's like blink and you missed it.
that's my keyboard crew chief style opinion anyway.
F1 qualifying was quite boring for several years too although it is better now.
F1 has talked about reducing the practice sessions on friday but they've also talked about creating incentives to ensure that friday has more entertainment value for fans than it has had.
IHRA? IHRA is a notch below the NHRA and everyone knows it. You pay a lot less for tickets there, but you get the great saturday night jet wheelstander extravaganza, which I 'm betting makes up the shorter qualifying format. I dont' know since they aren't running in florida anymore I wish they would come back.
My thought is there are better ways. IT's not like the fuel cars are running NASA technology out there. outside of funny car bodies.
reduce costs by turning back the clock. fans in the stands don't give a damn if they run 4.4s or 5.4. single mag smaller fuel pump. whatever.
trust me we don't care. we just want to see those fire breathing monsters thundering down the track. they've gotten so quick it's like blink and you missed it.
that's my keyboard crew chief style opinion anyway.
whyisthisarequiredfield
Nitro Member
Just a thought...Knocking them down to 1 mag would just speed up the release of MSD's 60 Amp mag. Then 75, 90, etc... Pretty soon AJ would be running one the size of an empty fuel drum, if that's what it took.
Mr. Newman's comments are great, I've always thought that the rev limiter was a band-aid on a bullet wound. In the long run, it has cost far more for teams to keep a warehouse full of spares to deal with half-assed rule adjustments.
Mr. Newman's comments are great, I've always thought that the rev limiter was a band-aid on a bullet wound. In the long run, it has cost far more for teams to keep a warehouse full of spares to deal with half-assed rule adjustments.
Slow em down
A very wise man told me at dinner, Friday night of the Finals, that if they were serious about slowing them down, they could take away some wing or go to a smaller Goodyear tire. As of Sunday, after the Finals were over this wise man was very highly regarded. Maybe the higher ups should talk to him.
Just a thought
RicK Shute
A very wise man told me at dinner, Friday night of the Finals, that if they were serious about slowing them down, they could take away some wing or go to a smaller Goodyear tire. As of Sunday, after the Finals were over this wise man was very highly regarded. Maybe the higher ups should talk to him.
Just a thought
RicK Shute
The Only way to reduce costs is to drastically change the Rules. One Mag, smaller blower, smaller engine size, smaller tires. etc....
Even if NHRA made such rule changes which they won't, the Higher funded teams will continue to dominate! All this talk about bringing the Independent racers back....May as well start watching Nostalgia/Goodguys racing. That's about the only form of budget Nitro racing left.
Even if NHRA made such rule changes which they won't, the Higher funded teams will continue to dominate! All this talk about bringing the Independent racers back....May as well start watching Nostalgia/Goodguys racing. That's about the only form of budget Nitro racing left.
mike
Nitro Member
The Only way to reduce costs is to drastically change the Rules. One Mag, smaller blower, smaller engine size, smaller tires. etc....
Even if NHRA made such rule changes which they won't, the Higher funded teams will continue to dominate! All this talk about bringing the Independent racers back....May as well start watching Nostalgia/Goodguys racing. That's about the only form of budget Nitro racing left.
You saved me from typing Joe, it's 1.45am here, I could've been here all night...
Im not wanting to cause an argument by saying this , but in the Dan Olsen interview he ses that the cars don't need to be slowed down they just need to stop the engines exploding and he said alot of good ideas about how to do that.
Nitrohelper
Nitro Member
That's connect, I owned top fuel cars in the '60s&'70s (Hot Rod Shop) ,worked part time with Carl Olson at NHRA during th late '70s-early '80s, and then ran the Telstar for Doc from '85 to '91. I started Jack Wyatt & Bob Gilberson on Nitro, and tuned Wayne Bailey & Koretsky . also sold tune-up help to other small teams.
We ran more than 30 dates a year with the Telstar, sometimes match races at two different tracks a weekend, just like the "old days".
The mags are limited by rules to 44 amps max now, but the key is one automotive style spark plug.
I agree the show would be better at 300 mph. I'm a member of the 1000 foot "geezers club" , and from half track on, it is just too fast to watch a close race where the cars "swap the lead" during a run.
I wrote about saving motor parts, , , to help the "one run" tires and weak chassis , I agree that lowering the T/F wings two feet,and taking the "pick-up" boxes off the F/C's would be a simple cheap fix. However some of the whiz kids at NHRA believe the cars have to go over 330 mph to sell tickets.
Maybe the Russell lawyers might change that? Slower would be better at most older (shorter) race tracks for the few teams that still match race.
Slow em down...save money...whats this? Top Fuel is Top Fuel----King of the sport. Top Fuel has always been expensive, so what. If you have to ask what it cost you need to find a different hobby or find a way to finance it.
Seems alot of people want to run fuel but can't afford it, then scale down and do something different.
The NHRA has never had attendance decline @ the important races and they never discuss ways to save money for the racer.
Everyone here seems to have a way to fix a problem that is not a problem.
The NHRA cannot tell the teams that fill the stands what they can do or not do.
The NHRA might own the playing field but they do not own the players so they are very cautious about change.
And people like Force and Bernstein have no interest in slowing down to save money.
Seems alot of people want to run fuel but can't afford it, then scale down and do something different.
The NHRA has never had attendance decline @ the important races and they never discuss ways to save money for the racer.
Everyone here seems to have a way to fix a problem that is not a problem.
The NHRA cannot tell the teams that fill the stands what they can do or not do.
The NHRA might own the playing field but they do not own the players so they are very cautious about change.
And people like Force and Bernstein have no interest in slowing down to save money.
johnny
Nitro Member
No attendance decline? There are fewer fuel racers than ever, and there isn't a businessman alive who has no regards to the cost of doing business. It appears the players want to change more than NHRA.
Without attention to safety and a attrition, "scale down" is eminent.
