Rumblings (2 Viewers)

[Sean D, shondoo]

I went to Roy Hill's school back in the mid '90's and I'll never forget something he said. There were several people in the class that were complaining about NHRA like is always the case and still is, and they asked Roy his opinion. He said quite plainly, "It doesn't matter whether you like them or not, they're the Big Show and we gotta have 'em". This coming from a staunch IHRA guy at the time.

This will never be as simple as somebody forming another racing organization or convincing another organization/sanctioning body to pick up their class. Even if they were to do either, it's going to be a process that will hardly happen overnight. When it comes to people/organizations trying to unseat the NHRA from the penthouse suite, many have tried and many have died. You can talk about Street Outlaws and No-Prep Kings all you want, but when it comes to professional drag racing, the NHRA is still the cock of the walk.

Hopefully the racers and the NHRA figure that out someday and realize the opportunity that lies in front of them if they park their respective egos, force the tough discussions and move forward as a unit rather than adversaries.

Sean D

 

[Jimbo]

I went to Roy Hill's school back in the mid '90's and I'll never forget something he said. There were several people in the class that were complaining about NHRA like is always the case and still is, and they asked Roy his opinion. He said quite plainly, "It doesn't matter whether you like them or not, they're the Big Show and we gotta have 'em". This coming from a staunch IHRA guy at the time.

This will never be as simple as somebody forming another racing organization or convincing another organization/sanctioning body to pick up their class. Even if they were to do either, it's going to be a process that will hardly happen overnight. When it comes to people/organizations trying to unseat the NHRA from the penthouse suite, many have tried and many have died. You can talk about Street Outlaws and No-Prep Kings all you want, but when it comes to professional drag racing, the NHRA is still the cock of the walk.

Hopefully the racers and the NHRA figure that out someday and realize the opportunity that lies in front of them if they park their respective egos, force the tough discussions and move forward as a unit rather than adversaries.

Sean D

Sean DeWitt:
I think that it is a good thing to have other sectioning bodies running events so the racers have more of a choice of which of where to race.

I also think this would be a good thing for the NHRA instead of them just being the only show in town as it keeps them on their toes to what the other groups are doing.

The reason I think it might be more important to just section events at different drag strips and not the drag strips themselves is that it gives the sectioning bodies a little more control over the shows each drag strip might want to put on and yet not offend the NHRA by doing it in case of accidents and liability issues where the NHRA name is involved.

Many old times will remember the battles between drag strips that aligned themselves with the AHRA or the NHRA and kind of got put on a blacklist for doing it.
The exact same thing happened many years ago when NASCAR sectioned circle tracks and warned many racers that if you were caught running on circle tracks that were not sectioned by NASCAR you would not be allowed to race at their tracks.
Many racers raced at the circle tracks that paid the most money for a win and told NASCAR where to go!

Having competition is good for everyone and kind of forces sectioning bodies to do a better job.

Jim Hill

 

[Jimbo]

Heard last night that one of the Pro Stock guys has contacted the IHRA about putting together something. Don't know if it's true or not, who knows?

I would not be surprised if something like this happened.
There are racing groups around the country already doing their own thing and using the entry fee as a way of paying the prize money since it is becoming harder and harder to find sponsors willing to put up all the money.
Maybe it would even make it easier if the entry fees paid 50% of the prize money and that try and find sponsors who would then only be putting up the other 50%. Who knows it just might work!

Jim Hill

 

[Nunz]

To me, the path of least resistance is for the NHRA and the racers to work together to strengthen NHRA. Trying to splinter off and start a new series will most likely dilute things further. Make some hard decisions to rein in costs, and put the emphasis on marketing the sport to attract more sponsors. I know I'm simplifying and it's not that easy, but go try and start to build a new *HRA from scratch and see how that goes. NHRA has a great platform, and a great product, but like all businesses and now more than ever, it needs to be proactive to build for the future.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Sean DeWitt:
I think that it is a good thing to have other sectioning bodies running events so the racers have more of a choice of which of where to race.

I also think this would be a good thing for the NHRA instead of them just being the only show in town as it keeps them on their toes to what the other groups are doing.

The reason I think it might be more important to just section events at different drag strips and not the drag strips themselves is that it gives the sectioning bodies a little more control over the shows each drag strip might want to put on and yet not offend the NHRA by doing it in case of accidents and liability issues where the NHRA name is involved.

Many old times will remember the battles between drag strips that aligned themselves with the AHRA or the NHRA and kind of got put on a blacklist for doing it.
The exact same thing happened many years ago when NASCAR sectioned circle tracks and warned many racers that if you were caught running on circle tracks that were not sectioned by NASCAR you would not be allowed to race at their tracks.
Many racers raced at the circle tracks that paid the most money for a win and told NASCAR where to go!

Having competition is good for everyone and kind of forces sectioning bodies to do a better job.

Jim Hill

You will never hear me argue that competition breeds a better product, so I couldn't agree with you more on that. However, I'm just not sure that there are near enough cars to support more than one sanctioning body these days like they did back then. As a matter of fact, there's not enough cars to support just one right now. I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure how that could happen now.

Sean D

 

[none]

A few years back at PRI I was asked to moderate a discussion panel with three sanctioning bodies. One was a Drift one a Regional Stock Car Group and one a Drag Racing Organization. I opened by introducing myself and letting it be known that I was not there as a representative of NHRA, just as a moderator for the discussion.

As we got rolling the Drag Race guy made a statement to the effect of NHRA being to heavy handed and that their group was more laid back and fun. He said the his rule book was six pages as opposed to NHRAs few hundred and that was proof that they wanted people to race without being stifled.
After the chat was over I spoke to him and ask what they did for tech and safety stuff? And he said "We use the NHRA standard." So your rule book says "As per NHRA General Regulations" and he said that was it. So I asked what would you do without the NHRA standard, and he said I guess our rulebook would be a lot thicker. I guess that means they wouldn't be as much fun.

The point being nearly all of Drag Racing relies on NHRA in some form.

And sometimes a business decision needs to be made that the racers don't agree with. NHRA has been in business for 70 years, because more often than not they have made the right decisions. I guarantee you that Don Schumacher, Connie Kalitta and Richard Freeman have made decisions in their respective businesses that would not sit well on the surface with customers, vendors and even employees, but they did it for the overall good of the business. And judging by the success of those men, I would venture to say that WAY more often that not, they made the right call.

Alan

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

A few years back at PRI I was asked to moderate a discussion panel with three sanctioning bodies. One was a Drift one a Regional Stock Car Group and one a Drag Racing Organization. I opened by introducing myself and letting it be known that I was not there as a representative of NHRA, just as a moderator for the discussion.

As we got rolling the Drag Race guy made a statement to the effect of NHRA being to heavy handed and that their group was more laid back and fun. He said the his rule book was six pages as opposed to NHRAs few hundred and that was proof that they wanted people to race without being stifled.
After the chat was over I spoke to him and ask what they did for tech and safety stuff? And he said "We use the NHRA standard." So your rule book says "As per NHRA General Regulations" and he said that was it. So I asked what would you do without the NHRA standard, and he said I guess our rulebook would be a lot thicker. I guess that means they wouldn't be as much fun.

The point being nearly all of Drag Racing relies on NHRA in some form.

And sometimes a business decision needs to be made that the racers don't agree with. NHRA has been in business for 70 years, because more often than not they have made the right decisions. I guarantee you that Don Schumacher, Connie Kalitta and Richard Freeman have made decisions in their respective businesses that would not sit well on the surface with customers, vendors and even employees, but they did it for the overall good of the business. And judging by the success of those men, I would venture to say that WAY more often that not, they made the right call.

Alan

I'll be the first to admit that I routinely fall into the category of folks that ask myself, "What the *%$# were they (NHRA) trying to do there??", both as a spectator and participant, but I will also be the first to admit that you make strong points here. Tough decisions have to be made all day, every day by leaders that know they're not going to make everybody happy. I get it. I don't always like it, but I get it.

I will still contend, especially in this climate we're trying to operate in today, that the racers and NHRA should work closer together, more as a team rather than like a boss/subordinate than they currently do. It's not like a typical boss/subordinate relationship where there are likely a stack of applications to choose from for replacement of said subordinate(s). One will not exist without the other in this particular case, period. These entities need each other, and with car counts the way they are, they need each other now more than ever. So while I recognize the validity of what you're saying AR, I think this relationship is a little more unique than your average relationship of this kind and needs to be massaged a little....

Sean D

 

[Nick Name]

You are clueless.

You do know that no racetrack is forced to have an NHRA sanction, don't you? Every NHRA sanctioned track is that because they want to be.
And if you want to be NHRA sanctioned you do what is required for that.

Just like if you want to have a certain job and it requires certification, you don't want to go through the certification? No problem. But you can't have the job. You decide.

I have a CDL that requires me to have a DOT physical every two years, even if I never drive a truck. If I want to keep my license I have to keep my health card current. But I don't have to have the physical, I could just give up the license. It's MY CHOICE.

Alan

My shop is at a major race track. It is not sanctioned by any organization. Any organization can come in and hold events there. Drag racing should be the same. NHRA should not be able to tell any track what events they can hold at their facility. Drag racing could really take off if that was broken up.

 

[none]

You make it sound like NHRA is forcing the tracks to join. The tracks join NHRA because they want to, it is the track that wants to be sanctioned by and be a member of the NHRA organization. If ABC Dragway wanted to be independent they are welcome to be. If they (as most do) see value in being an NHRA Member Track, then they sign up.

And NHRA sanctioned tracks run many other events NMRA/NMCA, PDRA, Drag Week, etc. Even tracks that are owned by NHRA host events such as those.

Alan

 

[vegasnitro]

My shop is at a major race track. It is not sanctioned by any organization. Any organization can come in and hold events there. Drag racing should be the same. NHRA should not be able to tell any track what events they can hold at their facility. Drag racing could really take off if that was broken up.

There is a reason that facility is not sanctioned by the NHRA. They either don't want to bring it up to NHRA tech and safety standards or they do not carry the requisite amount of insurance NHRA requires. That's fine, not every thing needs to be under the NHRA umbrella. But let's tell it like it is, it costs more money to be sanctioned by NHRA than to not be sanctioned.

If a track is sanctioned by NHRA, they should absolutely follow any guidelines set forth by NHRA as to what type or sanction of events should be held there. Because if anything happens, the NHRA (and their insurance) is going to be at the top of the lawsuit. NHRA is absolutely protecting themselves, but by extension, they are protecting the track operators who sometimes can't see beyond the ticket booth or the back gate.

 

[Jimbo]

There is a reason that facility is not sanctioned by the NHRA. They either don't want to bring it up to NHRA tech and safety standards or they do not carry the requisite amount of insurance NHRA requires. That's fine, not every thing needs to be under the NHRA umbrella. But let's tell it like it is, it costs more money to be sanctioned by NHRA than to not be sanctioned.

If a track is sanctioned by NHRA, they should absolutely follow any guidelines set forth by NHRA as to what type or sanction of events should be held there. Because if anything happens, the NHRA (and their insurance) is going to be at the top of the lawsuit. NHRA is absolutely protecting themselves, but by extension, they are protecting the track operators who sometimes can't see beyond the ticket booth or the back gate.

Chris Cook:

Very well said and I understand the NHRA concerns about insurance and liability coverage for themselves and the drag strip owners.

Your comment "they should absolutely follow any guidelines set forth by NHRA as to what type of sanction of events should be held there"

By agreeing with the above statement you are giving a little too much control to the NHRA over a track which you own and that may be the reason some drag strip owners choose not to be sectioned by them.

Just my opinion Jim Hill

 

[none]

My shop is at a major race track. It is not sanctioned by any organization. Any organization can come in and hold events there. Drag racing should be the same. NHRA should not be able to tell any track what events they can hold at their facility. Drag racing could really take off if that was broken up.

Genuinely curious, what major events do they run? I readily admit that I'm not familiar with the facility as I tend to get tunnel vision with what I do for work. Do they run club days? Test days? A point series for the track? Touring series?

I'm also curious as to what events you think that an NHRA member track would run that is not allowed now?

My local NHRA track Tucson Dragway books in many events during the year and I don't know of anything they wanted to run and couldn't

Alan

 

[DixonFan]

Genuinely curious, what major events do they run? I readily admit that I'm not familiar with the facility as I tend to get tunnel vision with what I do for work. Do they run club days? Test days? A point series for the track? Touring series?

I'm also curious as to what events you think that an NHRA member track would run that is not allowed now?

My local NHRA track Tucson Dragway books in many events during the year and I don't know of anything they wanted to run and couldn't

Alan

So Larry is able to bring his 2 seater dragster to NHRA sanction tracks??

 

[none]

So Larry is able to bring his 2 seater dragster to NHRA sanction tracks??

As of now, no. That's one car, are you telling me that tracks are going out of business because that car?

Alan

 

[megadeth]

A few years back at PRI I was asked to moderate a discussion panel with three sanctioning bodies. One was a Drift one a Regional Stock Car Group and one a Drag Racing Organization. I opened by introducing myself and letting it be known that I was not there as a representative of NHRA, just as a moderator for the discussion.

As we got rolling the Drag Race guy made a statement to the effect of NHRA being to heavy handed and that their group was more laid back and fun. He said the his rule book was six pages as opposed to NHRAs few hundred and that was proof that they wanted people to race without being stifled.
After the chat was over I spoke to him and ask what they did for tech and safety stuff? And he said "We use the NHRA standard." So your rule book says "As per NHRA General Regulations" and he said that was it. So I asked what would you do without the NHRA standard, and he said I guess our rulebook would be a lot thicker. I guess that means they wouldn't be as much fun.

The point being nearly all of Drag Racing relies on NHRA in some form.

And sometimes a business decision needs to be made that the racers don't agree with. NHRA has been in business for 70 years, because more often than not they have made the right decisions. I guarantee you that Don Schumacher, Connie Kalitta and Richard Freeman have made decisions in their respective businesses that would not sit well on the surface with customers, vendors and even employees, but they did it for the overall good of the business. And judging by the success of those men, I would venture to say that WAY more often that not, they made the right call.

Alan

I get your point Alan but Don and Connie aren’t spring chickens anymore! I think you know where I’m going.
It is NHRA’s sandbox so you have to play by their rules. But I also know businesses that have been around for longer than 70 years that are no longer in business.

 

[ironpony]

So Larry is able to bring his 2 seater dragster to NHRA sanction tracks??

only if he removes the IHRA sticker....................

 

[vegasnitro]

Chris Cook:

Very well said and I understand the NHRA concerns about insurance and liability coverage for themselves and the drag strip owners.

Your comment "they should absolutely follow any guidelines set forth by NHRA as to what type of sanction of events should be held there"

By agreeing with the above statement you are giving a little too much control to the NHRA over a track which you own and that may be the reason some drag strip owners choose not to be sectioned by them.

Just my opinion Jim Hill

I agree that track owners absolutely have a choice and they should try to make the best choice for their business. Sometimes, that might be to not be sanctioned by NHRA. It would certainly be cheaper.

Control is an illusion. Do you own your house? Go without homeowners insurance. Woops, most municipalities that is illegal. Try not paying property taxes because you don't "want to be sanctioned by your municipality". Try something much less radical, install a solar array and disconnect from the grid. Where I just left (Nevada) and where I live now, Boone County Kentucky, you can't do that either. Feel like never mowing your yard or painting your house purple with lime green shutters? Good luck with that too. What control do we really have over the property we "own"?

 

[rocketman]

One thing I would do is to make the show better so it's not so drawn out is to show the finals only in Bike and pro stock.

 

[Cliff]

I think the shows take less time to run now than they used to. A lot less down time and NHRA has it structured so there seems to be cars on the track most of the time. Have noticed that on live TV broadcasts, not too much of a wait before the finals. It's really amazing how the teams turn around a nitro car in 45 min.

 

[mgty3whlr]

You have to realize that the "LIVE" show Isn't all live. The first part is pre-recorded to give them some buffer time. That's why it looks like it flows so nice.