Put Erica back in a Camaro !!!! (1 Viewer)
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Justin@NRE
Nitro Member
You people and your intake manifold hysteria, all Greg had to do was thank Hogan's once on TV. Guess the advertising paid off.
It really is a matter of the car tune-up matching the engine power and driving. For whatever reason, KB had the cars tuned almost perfectly for their engine power. Same with AJ in Bandimere. Nobody has put more laps on the mountain than AJ.
Let's look a little deeper while still barely scratching the surface:
10,500 Rev Limit -
1. Fewer Revs = Less Horsepower - Even if you lose torque per stroke, the more strokes in a given time will make up the torque loss.
2. Fewer Revs = Different Clutch Tune - Engine not spinning as fast makes less clutch plate load. If you were revving way upstairs to shift and just lost 1000-1500 RPM at your shift points, you will probably be blowing through the clutch when you shift if you leave everything alone.
3. Fewer Revs = Motor falls deeper at gear change. If your gear splits and clutch tune were creating a 2200 RPM drop once shifted, and you were shifting at 11,000, Motor falls to 8800, getting back in the primary powerband much faster. Again, back to 10,500, motor now falls to 8,300. Again, do you have enough clutch on to make up the 500 RPM difference? Can you change gear splits without killing clutch or bogging motor once in high gear because the jump from 4th to 5th was too wide?
4. Fewer Revs = Different Rear Gear = Different transmission gears
5. Fewer Revs = Shift the power band back to a more useful range under new rules and find the power you used to have with 1,000 less RPM.
EFI -
1. How close can you mimic the fuel delivery behavior of your carbs?
2. Airflow differences between the big single TB and 8 carb barrels?
3. Injector atomization vs. Carb. How much cleaner is the air/fuel mix?
4. If injectors are more efficient, how much more efficient? You're probably going to be rich as hell if you use base fuel flow numbers from the carbs.
5. Rich mixture = Less Power/Engine Acceleration, which is crucial since PS cars spend most of the run with the clutch locked to the motor.
Shorter Wheelie Bars -
1. How much harder do you have to hit the tires at launch with gear/clutch/RPM to keep the front end down?
2. How much is too much?
3. Can you change weight around to mitigate the effect?
4. What can you change in suspension settings?
5. Tire Pressures?
6. Launch RPM?
Not even scratching the surface there are already 16 things to consider and learn with the changes and all 16 need to be dead on the money to get the best pass for the conditions. And you get conflicting data all the time, more power on the dyno, slower on the track. More power means the ability to burn more fuel, but where in the RPM range does it need it and where doesn't it? Another problem can also be that engine builders can get hung up on making power at Max RPM, but on the track the car only sees max RPM for .2 seconds the entire lap. Makes big power on the dyno, but every time the driver pulls the next gear, it's down 50-100hp off that max number trying to grunt it's way back up and everyone is wondering why it isn't running better with that big power number.
It really is a matter of the car tune-up matching the engine power and driving. For whatever reason, KB had the cars tuned almost perfectly for their engine power. Same with AJ in Bandimere. Nobody has put more laps on the mountain than AJ.
Let's look a little deeper while still barely scratching the surface:
10,500 Rev Limit -
1. Fewer Revs = Less Horsepower - Even if you lose torque per stroke, the more strokes in a given time will make up the torque loss.
2. Fewer Revs = Different Clutch Tune - Engine not spinning as fast makes less clutch plate load. If you were revving way upstairs to shift and just lost 1000-1500 RPM at your shift points, you will probably be blowing through the clutch when you shift if you leave everything alone.
3. Fewer Revs = Motor falls deeper at gear change. If your gear splits and clutch tune were creating a 2200 RPM drop once shifted, and you were shifting at 11,000, Motor falls to 8800, getting back in the primary powerband much faster. Again, back to 10,500, motor now falls to 8,300. Again, do you have enough clutch on to make up the 500 RPM difference? Can you change gear splits without killing clutch or bogging motor once in high gear because the jump from 4th to 5th was too wide?
4. Fewer Revs = Different Rear Gear = Different transmission gears
5. Fewer Revs = Shift the power band back to a more useful range under new rules and find the power you used to have with 1,000 less RPM.
EFI -
1. How close can you mimic the fuel delivery behavior of your carbs?
2. Airflow differences between the big single TB and 8 carb barrels?
3. Injector atomization vs. Carb. How much cleaner is the air/fuel mix?
4. If injectors are more efficient, how much more efficient? You're probably going to be rich as hell if you use base fuel flow numbers from the carbs.
5. Rich mixture = Less Power/Engine Acceleration, which is crucial since PS cars spend most of the run with the clutch locked to the motor.
Shorter Wheelie Bars -
1. How much harder do you have to hit the tires at launch with gear/clutch/RPM to keep the front end down?
2. How much is too much?
3. Can you change weight around to mitigate the effect?
4. What can you change in suspension settings?
5. Tire Pressures?
6. Launch RPM?
Not even scratching the surface there are already 16 things to consider and learn with the changes and all 16 need to be dead on the money to get the best pass for the conditions. And you get conflicting data all the time, more power on the dyno, slower on the track. More power means the ability to burn more fuel, but where in the RPM range does it need it and where doesn't it? Another problem can also be that engine builders can get hung up on making power at Max RPM, but on the track the car only sees max RPM for .2 seconds the entire lap. Makes big power on the dyno, but every time the driver pulls the next gear, it's down 50-100hp off that max number trying to grunt it's way back up and everyone is wondering why it isn't running better with that big power number.
Nick Name
Nitro Member
Hope it is the Hornet.I heard she's driving a Hudson next year!
Justin@NRE
Nitro Member
Justin did you just make that all up?
My last job, I supplied clutch parts of some type for just about every Pro Stock team and worked pretty closely with a few on their programs. I always told them they were nuts for putting in so much money and work to go that slow. lol. But the level of microscopic details that can compound to make or break their runs combined with their seemingly infinite adjustability is absolute insanity.
Doug in the woods
Nitro Member
It seems funny that several races ago NHRA mandated that PS cars must come to the staging lanes w/ an empty fuel cell. Since that race, other teams have been winning or qualifying #1
WHY?? fuel temperature was one guess as other sanctioning bodies have basically outlawed cold fuel.
Way back when Bill Jenkins was racing, he had a cooling system for his fuel.
WHY?? fuel temperature was one guess as other sanctioning bodies have basically outlawed cold fuel.
Way back when Bill Jenkins was racing, he had a cooling system for his fuel.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Fuel temps are a bone of contention in the alcohol dragster pits too. The A/Fuel cars are allowed to cool their fuel to 40F, but the blown cars are only allowed 50F. That is why you see them in the staging lanes with insulated blankets over the front of their cars.
Justin@NRE
Nitro Member
I don't know that it was all temp related either. I think someone called shenanigans on the actual fuel being used as well. As far as temp goes, it can help cool the intake charge and pistons and create a little more power that might otherwise create detonation in Gas and Methanol burning engines. Nitro is where the big chilling advantage comes in. Nitro brings some if it's own oxygen in it's molecules, so the colder it is, the more dense it is, more molecules in a given volume.
none
Nitro Member
Getting fueled in the lanes is not new. NHRA has been doing it for years. It's not an every run thing, but every now and then they will come to the pit and tell you to come up empty, it was happening ever since the fuel was speced in the early 00's.
NHRA does a number of things that are not "scheduled" they spot check and since the racers never know when a check is coming, they tend to stay on the right side of the rules.
Alan
NHRA does a number of things that are not "scheduled" they spot check and since the racers never know when a check is coming, they tend to stay on the right side of the rules.
Alan
JF
Nitro Member
Unless possibly they are financed by a sponsor that has major influence with NHRA. Subsequently NHRA would lose a lot of money if they were to perhaps lose that sponsor due to their team being embarrassed by a team that does not sponsor NHRA. Then of course NHRA could be also on the other side of the rules also.
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
everybody uses that "important sponsor" excuse when bringing up cheating or getting away with supposed rules infractions....I seem to remember that Pennzoil has sponsored several different cars since Orndorff/ Eckman got banned from Pro Stock.
To say that the NHRA would give Summit or Mopar or any of the other major corporate sponsors any leeway because of the $$$$ they bring if their teams were caught doing something like cheating and winning from it is crazy. They would just pull their support from said team and give it to someone more deserving and stay in the game.....sure it's embarassing but it was the team breaking the rules, harder to prove cheating orders came from higher up.......
To say that the NHRA would give Summit or Mopar or any of the other major corporate sponsors any leeway because of the $$$$ they bring if their teams were caught doing something like cheating and winning from it is crazy. They would just pull their support from said team and give it to someone more deserving and stay in the game.....sure it's embarassing but it was the team breaking the rules, harder to prove cheating orders came from higher up.......
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
nope
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
or maybe, just maybe Mopar (my fave) was given free reign during Wayne County's streak because NHRA felt guilty for factoring the Hemi out of P/S in the 70's......
BTW, Alex Jones says Grumpy got his small block tech from UFO's......
BTW, Alex Jones says Grumpy got his small block tech from UFO's......
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
and Ronnie Sox was an alien....no human being could shift a 4 speed like that......
cantdrive55
Nitro Member
Is anyone other than Force allowed to run the new Camaro nitro Funny Car body? Not throwing anyone under the bus; just wondering.
For historical purposes only Pennzoil wasn't the sponsor on the Orndorff car in 1997. It was Checker Schuck's Kragen. Pennzoil dumped them at the end of 1996.
For historical purposes only Pennzoil wasn't the sponsor on the Orndorff car in 1997. It was Checker Schuck's Kragen. Pennzoil dumped them at the end of 1996.
z28
Nitro Member
Hornets are hotI heard she's driving a Hudson next year!
rollingthunder
Nitro Member
has greg or jason posed next to her trailer with a trophy ?
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