Pro Stock Question

[sparky]

So how much HP are pro stocks making now ?

 

[Rat]

So how much HP are pro stocks making now ?

I would say 1300

 

[Wes Buck]

I'd say that's about right. 1,300 or so.

 

[FABMAN]

I'm gonna say more like 1600-1800 HP. It's taking 1200-1400 out of 600+inches
to qualify in Top Sportsman. Remember Pro Stock is limited to 500 cu inch.

Quote from Joe Lepone *DRO*

JL: The technology today is so much different. The first Jenkins motor I had made 980 horsepower, it shifted around 8700, 8800. Now they’re making 1500 horsepower engines that shift at 11,000. That’s an awesome thing, 11,000 RPM in 500 cubic inches.

 

[twostep]

Kurt Johnson recently stated 1400 on a good day; I forgot which interview it was. I reckon he'd be a go-to guy on this. When I got started in the sport, this was a good number for a fuel dragster.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I'm gonna say more like 1600-1800 HP. It's taking 1200-1400 out of 600+inches
to qualify in Top Sportsman. Remember Pro Stock is limited to 500 cu inch.

I understand what you're saying, Jesse, but keep in mind the Top Sportsman/Top Dragster guys need big horsepower and longevity. They get a portion of that longevity through cubic inches so they're not on the ragged-edge like a Pro Stock motor and have to go through them all the time.

I'd say the aforementioned 1300 - 1400 number is pretty close.

Sean D

 

[Rat]

I understand what you're saying, Jesse, but keep in mind the Top Sportsman/Top Dragster guys need big horsepower and longevity. They get a portion of that longevity through cubic inches so they're not on the ragged-edge like a Pro Stock motor and have to go through them all the time.

I'd say the aforementioned 1300 - 1400 number is pretty close.

Sean D

The cubic dollars principle is pretty bad for Pro-Stock, but I heard it's really awful for some of the top sportsman guys.

 

[Raconteur]

So how much HP are pro stocks making now ?

Joe Lepone Jr. knows Pro Stock...

 

[Prestaged]

Joe Lepone Jr. knows Pro Stock...

That was a good read.

 

[clwill]

The cubic dollars principle is pretty bad for Pro-Stock, but I heard it's really awful for some of the top sportsman guys.

A guy out here is the one Sonny built this engine for: SAR 1005 (2150 HP) **NEW FOR 2012** - Sonny's Racing Engines

2150hp normally aspirated, 1005ci. Price tag: $117k Ouch. And he has 4 cars all with Sonny's bullets in them. They have to be refreshed after every 40 passes, at a cost of $20k. They run in Top Sportsman and Top Dragster. Last race I saw him at, he qualified #2...

That's some serious "cubic dollars".

 

[Rat]

A guy out here is the one Sonny built this engine for: SAR 1005 (2150 HP) **NEW FOR 2012** - Sonny's Racing Engines

2150hp normally aspirated, 1005ci. Price tag: $117k Ouch. And he has 4 cars all with Sonny's bullets in them. They have to be refreshed after every 40 passes, at a cost of $20k. They run in Top Sportsman and Top Dragster. Last race I saw him at, he qualified #2...

That's some serious "cubic dollars".

All I can say is when your spending that much money...you better be winning.

 

[clwill]

You know better than that. Money is not equal to Winning. Money puts you in the game, it may give you advantages, but there is little substitute for experience and/or knowledge gained from that experience.

 

[Super Mod]

"Right now, you run Pro Stock by taking someone else’s engine guy and you start there. Jegs’ deal, and I don’t know how much fact there is to this rumor, but I heard he spent $250,000 for an engine. That’s not a bad investment, because all you have to do is take the engine apart and send the heads to Alan Johnson, have him digitize them, and then make you as many sets of heads as you want. Then you’ve got a good starting point." Joe Lepone

Isn't this akin to "intellectual property" theft? BTW nice INNERview Darr

 

[clwill]

Isn't this akin to "intellectual property" theft?

Absolutely.

 

[mick]

$250k to be instantly back on par with the business rival - what else
would be the motivation.

 

[Paul]

Isn't this akin to "intellectual property" theft?

This is what makes the performance business pretty tough.

Morally you would likely say that copying the heads isn't right.

But unless the heads we're protected via either trademark, copyright or patent protection there is nothing illegal about this.

The only way trademark protection would apply in this case would be if there was something about the particular shape of the heads that had been trademarked, like the shape of a Coke bottle. This kind of protection typically isn't going to help a performance product, other than keeping some one from marketing a product with your name and logos.

Copyrights probably aren't going to help you with a part like a cylinder head, you can copyright a particular shape of port for example but any slight modification of that shape won't be violating that copyright so its easy to get around this kind of protection.

This leaves patents as the only useful protection against outright copying of a part. Unfortunately patents are both time consuming and costly to acquire and also time consuming and costly to enforce, often the attorneys are the only ones make any money through patents.

If your company and product market are a big enough to afford a full time patent attorney on staff then you might be able to get some protection from patents, but this typically isn't the case for performance products.

So unfortunately in the racing marketplace most companies don't have a practical way to keep their products from being outright copied, its not fair but its just something you have to accept and manage if you are going to play the game.

 

[Super Mod]

This is what makes the performance business pretty tough.

.......................................

But unless the heads we're protected via either trademark, copyright or patent protection there is nothing illegal about this.

..............................................

So unfortunately in the racing marketplace most companies don't have a practical way to keep their products from being outright copied, its not fair but its just something you have to accept and manage if you are going to play the game.

Or so the Chinese would have you believe

 

[Paul]

Or so the Chinese would have you believe

Jack, if you have any other solutions besides breaking knee caps I'm all ears, my company had a product outright copied and it wasn't by a chinese company, it was right here in the good old USA.

Patents wouldn't have done us any good, even if you low buck the patent application its very costly and time consuming to pursue patent violation cases.

 

[Nick Name]

The horsepower seems to be about the same as a TF motorcycle.

 

[Nick Name]

A guy out here is the one Sonny built this engine for: SAR 1005 (2150 HP) **NEW FOR 2012** - Sonny's Racing Engines

2150hp normally aspirated, 1005ci. Price tag: $117k Ouch. And he has 4 cars all with Sonny's bullets in them. They have to be refreshed after every 40 passes, at a cost of $20k. They run in Top Sportsman and Top Dragster. Last race I saw him at, he qualified #2...

That's some serious "cubic dollars".

Sounds like your basic "sportsman" racer to me