NHRA Tech says to DSR Top Fuelers "Take It Off"!

[mike]

it seems like another step down the road to spec nitro cars

unless it greatly increases the risk of injury, I don't see how NHRA can make a change like this at this point in the season EVEN if what DSR did was strictly for a performance advantage...(which was kinda my feeling all along)

 

[Bobby Bennett]

VIDEO: ANTRON BROWN FIRE VIA ESPN3/NHRA - YouTube!

The fire used as the yardstick for the determination.

 

[stanzig44]

VIDEO: ANTRON BROWN FIRE VIA ESPN3/NHRA - YouTube!

The fire used as the yardstick for the determination.

Hey Bobby, Just checking - Did you get NHRA's permission to put that on YouTube? Just kidding.

 

[Wes]

Terry...what Light was quoted as saying in an interview and what the actual proposal vetted are clearly not verbatim. None of us except DSR and NHRA know exactly what was outlined in their proposal and ultimate approval. To speculate its complete content is what WJ would call mental...well, you get the picture.

I wouldn't discount Shoe's reluctance to continue dong business within and with NHRA at this point. When you look at the track record over the last decade they haven't been the best of friends. Contracts always have out clauses and transferability when written properly.

 

[Draw 3D]

If paul or mike knew anything about innovation and aero they would know that the teams use there own pedo tubs, cameras and pressure sensors. We increased the pressure in the cockpit. Never mind. Lack of first hand knowledge means you should not make technical statements.

So are you saying that the shroud worked as "intended" when the fire went into the drivers area? Looking at the video, it sure looks like a negative pressure area to me.

You are very quick to judge me as someone who doesn't know "anything about innovation and aero" and that I "should not make technical statements", a personal attack without any first-hand knowledge of me or of my experiences.

As it relates to dsr, you're correct, I don't have first-hand knowledge, but I do when it comes to innovation and aerodynamics in both racing and in aerospace.

 

[Paul]

Its pretty sad when you can't do anything innovative in what is supposed to be the most competitive class in the sport.

The blather about the high costs to other competitors to match this innovation, ie implying they would have to hire aerodynamics engineers is a total smoke screen.

Its the first team that does an innovation like this that pays the price in either sweat and testing time or paid research, with the payback that they get it for a while before anyone else does.

But once its on the track, some pictures and some work by a good fabricator are all that are required for the other teams to catch up, this is not very costly.

This was a really dumb decision, especially at this point in the season. So dumb that I can't blame Don Shumacher for speculating on whether it was done to specifically target his teams.

 

[Mikey]

Here is a thought....There is one organization the could benefit from DSR leaving NHRA and that is IHRA.... Mr. Schumacher could have 4 dragsters and 4 funny cars and they could put on a show for IHRA. They obviously proved the can pack a racetrack in the last 2 years. Who knows maybe they can get IHRA to go back to a qualified field. I am sure if he leaves NHRA other might follow his lead......Just a thought.

 

[Wayne]

Everyone is jumping down NHRA's throat about this but where was the outrage when they kept adding & taking weight to/from the bikes a few years ago? Several times during the season?
All the big organizing bodies make rules changes during their seasons!!!

Paul F., Mike, & Terry:
+1320


C'mon folks; let's get back to the racing!!!

 

[Podhopper]

What this boils down to, I think, is the NHRA being anti-evolution. They don't want to see cars get any faster than they are now. They don't want to see teams tweak this or shave that, no matter how small any potential advantage may be. Lots of small benefitial changes over time will of course make cars go faster and the NHRA are frightened of faster cars.

What they fail to understand is this; Fuel cars WILL get faster. Just as sure as eggs are eggs. It's human nature to constantly strive for improvment. If improvment is prevented in Top Fuel, Top Fuel will die or to be more precise NHRA Top Fuel will die, the sooner the luggheads at the top realise this the sooner we can all get back to the job of dropping jaws open at race tracks.

 

[yoda]

Aerodynamic advantage? On a Top Fuel Dragster?

Are you kidding me? Why should there be ANY rules on how body lines are configured on the pipe racks?? They are in that rare air stratosphere of some of the few racecars on the PLANET that look EXCLUSIVELY like NO OTHER CAR out there... With the exception of wing size and placement in relation to the tires, I say let them come up with any body style they want.

Now- as far as a safety improvement: seems to keep everything EXCEPT FIRE from coming into, and staying, in the cockpit... And in Antron's case, the spraying fuel line probably had a lot to do with how much the driver was engulfed. Maybe some more tunnel time to create a positive airspace in the driver area is needed, to blow flames out of the cage/ pod area... But I bet the wrap-around was good for keeping bits and pieces away from the driver's head- which I assume was DSR's intention when they said the semi-canopy was for "safety purposes".

I am torn about the ruling coming down when it did. Yes, I would think that a post-season change/ redefinition of the rules would make it fair for the DSR cars, but on the other side, if something catostrophic happened between now and the end of the season, this would be one of the first places to be screaming bloody hell (and using that same ESPN360 clip as the example) about how someone at NHRA Tech should have seen this incident in Reading and should have done something then. And since NHRA gave the bodywork its blessing, that would put them on the hook for some of the liability, similar to being partially responsible for giving the OK to the JFR cars to be partially heat-treated...

I'd hate to have to write the rule book...

 

[PJ]

Here is a thought....There is one organization the could benefit from DSR leaving NHRA and that is IHRA.... Mr. Schumacher could have 4 dragsters and 4 funny cars and they could put on a show for IHRA. They obviously proved the can pack a racetrack in the last 2 years. Who knows maybe they can get IHRA to go back to a qualified field. I am sure if he leaves NHRA other might follow his lead......Just a thought.

I can see it now, next year coming to a track near you the DSHRA




Actually it appears everyone is blaming the wrong part. It wasn't the shroud but the wayward fuel line that caused the problem. Without it spraying fuel, AB would not have had the fire in the cockpit. So we just need to get rid of the fuel lines and all will be fixed

 

[S&M]

I can see it now, next year coming to a track near you the DSHRA



So we just need to get rid of the fuel lines and all will be fixed

I believe some are working on getting rid of the fuel part. The lines will then follow.

 

[Dragracer]

Unfortunately the pro cars today are about as close to being spec cars as you can get. Take a look at the rule book for t/f and f/c.
It doesn't allow the innovation that we saw in the 50s, 60s, and into the early 70s. Garlits found that out a few years ago when he wanted to run his old car.
There are some real obvious parts that their use is controlled by one team. One big example is in f/c with Force's control of the Ford engines and bodies.

As far as the DSR/NHRA issue we can all speculate on it until the cows come in. I would bet there will be more discussion between both of them about the shroud issue but we will never know the result unless we see the DSR cars with a roll bar shroud in the future.

 

[Draw 3D]

The blather about the high costs to other competitors to match this innovation, ie implying they would have to hire aerodynamics engineers is a total smoke screen.

How is it a smoke screen when that is exactly what happened:

another team that had gone out and got another aerodynamic engineering company to do an evaluation on this

 

[Dragracer]

Lets all take a time out from this matter.
Please look at my newest blog.
RIP Dan Weldon

 

[Paul]

How is it a smoke screen when that is exactly what happened:

Nothing stops teams with lots of dough to spend to do things like hiring engineers to evaluate what other teams are doing, its done in NASCAR all the time.

But my point is that in this case it didn't have to be done and using it as an excuse to make this mod illegal doesn't fly.

A sharp low buck team with a good fabricator can easily copy what the DSR team has done with the shroud.

I'm surprised Bernstein is whining about this so much, his "anything anybody is using on their cars must be made available for purchase by any body else" proposal is rediculous and is totally counter to the spirit of innovation that made drag racing great and exciting.

Have we really come that far from the "I'll build it myself" approach that the fathers of the sport used so effectively? (in particular "the godfather" himself, Big Daddy)

 

[Draw 3D]

Nothing stops teams with lots of dough to spend to do things like hiring engineers to evaluate what other teams are doing, its done in NASCAR all the time.

First off, nascar budgets are 10x that of drag racing, is that what you would want drag racing to become?

But my point is that in this case it didn't have to be done and using it as an excuse to make this mod illegal doesn't fly.

A sharp low buck team with a good fabricator can easily copy what the DSR team has done with the shroud.

I do believe that the "other" teams are required to submit for pre-approval so I don't think that any team could just call up a fabricator and say "build me a copy".

The way I read the article is that the "other" team during preliminary talks with NHRA brought forth the information.

 

[.]

How is it a smoke screen when that is exactly what happened:

Nobody forced any other team to hire engineers to do a study, they chose to do that on their own.

 

[Nick Name]

Here is a thought....There is one organization the could benefit from DSR leaving NHRA and that is IHRA.... Mr. Schumacher could have 4 dragsters and 4 funny cars and they could put on a show for IHRA. They obviously proved the can pack a racetrack in the last 2 years. Who knows maybe they can get IHRA to go back to a qualified field. I am sure if he leaves NHRA other might follow his lead......Just a thought.

Wouldn't work. Don's sponsors pay to be seen, both on same day TV and by people at the event.

 

[ex-nsp]

Been so many posts I'm not sure this hasn't already been mentioned.

The RULE BOOK allows FULLY enclosed cockpits (I.E. Garlits ) NOW. (2010 anyway).

It merely requires you install a 5 LB fire bottle for driver protection.

NHRA could've just said - " Don, put a fire bottle in the cockpit like the book allows for enclosed - we're thinkin' the roof has the same effect".

But on the other sides side, Ray Charles, first time he saw the DSR roofs would have seen the improvement in better quality air to the injector AND to the WING. But it probly does increase cockpit pressure like the NACA ducts up front do.

Less angle of attack (I think you can REDUCE it) same load to the tires, less drag. More power to the wheels.

Godspeed Dan Wheldon!