NHRA Sold (1 Viewer)

[farmje]

I KNOW WHAT THIS WHOLE THING IS ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!

Since the NHRA actually has money now, they are lowering ticket prices for the fans.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

 

[Joker]

I'll admit I haven't been following this story too closley (too damn excited about going to the Kansas race this weekend!). But what's Coke/PowerADE's take on all this?? I Imagine theyll still be the pro series marquee sponsor for a long time. And with all the fancy marketing talk so far, I guess they're pretty dam excited? Has to be a good move for them.

Am I not the only one who is majorily dissappointed in Coke/Poweraide's marketing of our sport? I am serious. When it was first announced I was like Awesome, now we will have major marketing and even have some drivers on coke cans and stuff or atleast some poweraide bottles. Besides at the racetrack and once at a store I have yet to see it. I dont understand why you would spend the money they have to sponsor our sport and then not advertise it.

 

[Chili]

I would hope that somehow the television exposure of NHRA racing increases. Maybe at some point they could start an NHRA channel or even bring back the pay per view of national events. I feel that there are enough fans that they could make some money selling the races on PPV. If they gave the fans the Sunday races for all 23 event they could probably sell the package for $300 for the whole season and sell indivisiual races at $30 each. During the sportsman classes they could just use the track announcers and use the current ESPN group during the pros. If there is a rain delay or even a long oildown they have thousands of hours of old footage to run.

 

[hellfirejim]

After the dust has settled, I was sitting back and trying to understand this change. The first thing is, what is in it for the NHRA as we know it? What did they gain from doing this? Not for us but for them. It seems to be that they gained financially and legally.

First financially they gain by no longer having to maintain and upgrade 4 tracks. Secondly they gain by divesting themselves of the "payout" portion of the sactioning body. They retained the "payin" portion which includes the sportsman racers, crew and family, the nostalgia reuinons and of course the "membership" dollars. So on balance they sold the outlay side and kept the income side.

Legally they have divested themselves of the liability issue that comes with the ownership of 4 tracks plus all the liability of the Pro side. With HD taking over the debt structure of NHRA it would seem logical they would also include the Pro Stock Truck settlement. Perhaps with the Russel case on the horizon they decided that the cost of liability was just too high.

One of the things that I have learned over the years that if you want to understand why something is being done, FOLLOW the MONEY!!!!

One last thought. Over the past years NHRA's strangle hold on the sportsman racer has not only been loosened but has almost slipped away. How so? Simple, look at all the smaller niche groups that are having a very successful run. These range from Pro Mod circuits to Fuel Altered circuits, to Ford, Mopar, GM (Chevy) only circuits and of course all the different nostalgia groups. This all came about when NHRA no longer was able to adequately take care of the sportsman base while pursuing the big corporate dollar.

On a personal note this does not affect me as my car does not fit any of their classes but there are plenty of other places to play who are glad to see me and treat me that way. Nice change.

Just my observations and as I have said before, time will tell.
jim

 

[tiny]

I was waiting for the pay-per-view talk to come up. What about charging for access to the NHRA website?

 

[ProStockJunkie]

I would hope that somehow the television exposure of NHRA racing increases. Maybe at some point they could start an NHRA channel or even bring back the pay per view of national events. I feel that there are enough fans that they could make some money selling the races on PPV. If they gave the fans the Sunday races for all 23 event they could probably sell the package for $300 for the whole season and sell indivisiual races at $30 each. During the sportsman classes they could just use the track announcers and use the current ESPN group during the pros. If there is a rain delay or even a long oildown they have thousands of hours of old footage to run.

If people aren't watching drag racing for free the way it is now, what makes you think they'll pay to watch it. I know I couldn't

 

[Dave]

Dave,

Just some corrections and additions to your flawed premise.

The 280 car count you list is on the extreme bottom end. The average is probably closer to 350 with events like the Vegas national posting 433 entries in just 4 categories.

What you also fail to realize is that for each sportsman entry, there is on average 2 crew passes purchased at a cost of $75 each.

Total payouts for each category are $11,000 (Comp), $13,300 (Stock) and $14,300 (Supers and S/S). And those totals are only achieved if every single paying position is filled, meaning there were no buy-runs in the money rounds.

So at the Vegas race, NHRA took in $173,200 in entry fees and crew passes. They paid out a maximum of $52,600 in purses.

Do you think $120,600 would go a long way to covering a weekends worth of operating expenses?

Even at an average event, where the payouts are even less, there going to clear almost $90,000.

Greg,

You missed my point. The spectator count of 60,000 is also on the low end. The $10 dollar figure for concessions and souvenirs was on the low end. The point was, if each spectator just spent one more dollar each day it would more than make up for any money that was made from the sportsmen.

My premise is no more flawed than yours. You did not deduct the associated costs of having the sportsman classes at the event (extra employees, airfare, hotel rooms, meals, supplies, etc.). I don't have a clue how much that would be. Maybe you do. You also did not add the alcohol categories and their payout. Then, if I'm not mistaken, gold card holders don't pay entry fees. I'm sure that's not a big number but it must be figured in the totals also.

$90,000 is probably closer to $70,000 when you take every else into consideration. The average ticket price is probably closer to $40, not $35 which is what I used for the St. Louis race. Vegas is even higher. The amount made from the sportsmen is very small percentage of the total take.

I'll ask the question again. If the sportsman classes participating at a national event was such a cash cow for the NHRA, why did they cut back on the classes at each event and why do they limit the number of participants in those classes? I would think they would want as many as they could get. Based on your figures an extra 10 participants in each category would net another $16,000. But then, add a dime to the price of a drink and you would probably net the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like the sportsman classes. I just don't agree with the statement that they pay the bills for the pros. The pro show could make it without them. The spectators with the hot dog, the beer and the souvenir t-shirt pay the bills.

 

[Larry]

First the government gives away and cheapens US citizenship and now the NHRA PRO's get sold to an Acquisition entertainment group.
What's next apple pie and Hamburgers ruled UnAmerican?
Oh yeah we already went through that and Germany won the hamburger war by a few weeks.
Hopefully as Wally promised better things await the sportsman racers but judging from the Divisional racers I have attended no one but the racers even knew they were going on.

 

[stanman]

... I'll ask the question again. If the sportsman classes participating at a national event was such a cash cow for the NHRA, why did they cut back on the classes at each event and why do they limit the number of participants in those classes? ...

Dave,

I guess both our points were lost in the haze. I fully agree with your analysis of revenue generation from other sources.

And my point wasn't that the sportsman racers are a cash cow at national events. But the non-alcohol sportsman classes do generate enough capital to cover a large portion of the general operating cost of a national event.

I think you missed my comment regarding the fact that the number of additional personnel and support staff required for the sportsman racers is very minimal over what would be required to run a pro only show. I would bet that there are fewer than 20 additional people needed to support the sportsman end of the show.

To answer you question as to why NHRA "enhanced" the sportsman experience...

NHRA would like to try and convince everyone that they restricted the number of class and number of entries for the benefit of the sportsman racers themselves... so that the sportsman racers wouldn't lose time runs, or actually get an extra time run, blah, blah, blah! It had nothing to do with making things better for the sportsman racers or the cost of having them. It had everything to do with speeding up the show, getting the Pros more space for their hospitality tents, engineering centers/rig, & everything else, and the fact that most facilities just couldn't support the number of competitors any longer because of the size of the rigs, both pros and sportsman... but especially the Pros.

Plus, since the sportsman racers more than cover their own tab at the events, it doesn't cost NHRA any additional funds to book in filler material between the Pro sessions.

 

[Jude]

Greg,

You missed my point. The spectator count of 60,000 is also on the low end. The $10 dollar figure for concessions and souvenirs was on the low end. The point was, if each spectator just spent one more dollar each day it would more than make up for any money that was made from the sportsmen.

My premise is no more flawed than yours. You did not deduct the associated costs of having the sportsman classes at the event (extra employees, airfare, hotel rooms, meals, supplies, etc.). I don't have a clue how much that would be. Maybe you do. You also did not add the alcohol categories and their payout. Then, if I'm not mistaken, gold card holders don't pay entry fees. I'm sure that's not a big number but it must be figured in the totals also.

$90,000 is probably closer to $70,000 when you take every else into consideration. The average ticket price is probably closer to $40, not $35 which is what I used for the St. Louis race. Vegas is even higher. The amount made from the sportsmen is very small percentage of the total take.

I'll ask the question again. If the sportsman classes participating at a national event was such a cash cow for the NHRA, why did they cut back on the classes at each event and why do they limit the number of participants in those classes? I would think they would want as many as they could get. Based on your figures an extra 10 participants in each category would net another $16,000. But then, add a dime to the price of a drink and you would probably net the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like the sportsman classes. I just don't agree with the statement that they pay the bills for the pros. The pro show could make it without them. The spectators with the hot dog, the beer and the souvenir t-shirt pay the bills.

1. Sportsmen must earn grade points to attend a national event. One grade point per divisional at $150 per entry, most national events require 2-3 grade points to enter, this equates to money into NHRA’s coffers.

2. As I understand it, the posted contingencies for each event are paid to the NHRA if they are not claimed. The sportsmen by the parts to be able to claim the sticker money, lose the sportsmen and see how many contingency sponsors stick around.

3. Unless the NHRA owns the facility, concessions and a pretty good portion of the gate go’s to the track, not the NHRA.

4. The reason entrants have been limited for national events is limited parking space, as the pro’s have added more teams, hospitality trailers and technology centers, the sportsman parking has been reduced.

Personally, I could care less if national events became Pro only. I would just as soon have all of the contingency sponsors leave the Pro events and bump up the divisionals. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy competing on the same tracks as the Pro’s at the same events, that is one of the things that makes NHRA so unique amongst all motorsports, but I think for the health of sportsman racing, we as competitors would be better served with a Sport’s National type of series with increased appreciation for the competitors.

 

[jackass]

OK.. i know we are getting off subject... but...

PPV.. few would or could do it.. but don't think its enough to off set the cost to produce it...

Tv is the key to growth for drag racing... But whats the best time for Drag racing on TV... easy.. mid to early Sunday afternoonon network tv.. If we use common sense we know that Live won't work....not for network.... so here's my idea... and i am copy righting the idea of it...lol.... so if it happens i want credit...or blame.....lol...

alter two maybe three events.... instead of the normal friday saturday sunday deal... figure out a formula... to where the eleminations are on saturday.. or are saturday night.... one round thursday night quailifing.... 2 rounds friday.... one round quailifing saturday morning... eleminations on saturday starting at noon..... last two rounds are in the night time...

Tv...???..... have an saturday afternoon 2hr quailifing show.... then sunday after noon have a 2 to 3 hrs show.. highlites form quailifing.. and eleminations.....

i know ..some are going to scream.. that won't work we got to have same day coverage....bull.... we went years on a week delay in some case... this is only couple times a year... and it would gain exposure NEEDED on network TV...there are 100's of thousands or even millions that still don't have cable or satallites... so one... NEW viewers.. two.... more exposure for sponsors..... more exposure ..means more money for sponsorships floating around....

more details to it.. but.. i think it would work.....

oh as far as the new deal.. it sounds better than the new points deal so i will at least wait and see where it goes....

Billy

 

[none]

GUYS... I don't think they will change access to the pits.. I think you are missing the point. WALLY CASHED OUT... He now has millions and still owns the original product that was NHRA... SPORTSMAN RACING.. They pay and race for little or no money. Look at the payouts for sportsman racing it all (But a small piece) comes from the companies that we all buy product from. If you win a super class at national event you can get 10 -14 thousand for a good list of products. How much comes from NHRA? $1500.00 If the number of $800,000.00 is correct for 23 national events for the ticket price for sportsman racing that is a bargian. They will pay that bill after 10 races with profit coming from 13 events. More than 50% profit margin. Looks good to my account.

 

[Chili]

Here are a couple of links for some more reading.

HD Partners Acquisition Corporation

Roadshow Presentation

Page 31 is interesting.

Jeff

Thanks for the links Jeff. The Roadshow Presentation gives us a hint of what they have planned in the future. It looks as if they plan on potentially adding more National Events to the schedule. Not a bad idea except for their is a lack of National Event caliber tracks and more events means a higher cost to the pro racers. Over the long haul, sponsorship could increase along with payouts which would alllow more events to be run.

 

[stanman]

Personally, I could care less if national events became Pro only. I would just as soon have all of the contingency sponsors leave the Pro events and bump up the divisionals. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy competing on the same tracks as the Pro’s at the same events, that is one of the things that makes NHRA so unique amongst all motorsports, but I think for the health of sportsman racing, we as competitors would be better served with a Sport’s National type of series with increased appreciation for the competitors.

Jeremy,

Have you been reading my mind again!!

 

[BlueStangGT]

New info at NHRA.com regarding the Sportsman programs:

NHRA News: Open letter to the Sportsman racing community (6/1/2007)

 

[club]

Dave,

I guess both our points were lost in the haze. I fully agree with your analysis of revenue generation from other sources.

And my point wasn't that the sportsman racers are a cash cow at national events. But the non-alcohol sportsman classes do generate enough capital to cover a large portion of the general operating cost of a national event.

I think you missed my comment regarding the fact that the number of additional personnel and support staff required for the sportsman racers is very minimal over what would be required to run a pro only show. I would bet that there are fewer than 20 additional people needed to support the sportsman end of the show.

To answer you question as to why NHRA "enhanced" the sportsman experience...

NHRA would like to try and convince everyone that they restricted the number of class and number of entries for the benefit of the sportsman racers themselves... so that the sportsman racers wouldn't lose time runs, or actually get an extra time run, blah, blah, blah! It had nothing to do with making things better for the sportsman racers or the cost of having them. It had everything to do with speeding up the show, getting the Pros more space for their hospitality tents, engineering centers/rig, & everything else, and the fact that most facilities just couldn't support the number of competitors any longer because of the size of the rigs, both pros and sportsman... but especially the Pros.

Plus, since the sportsman racers more than cover their own tab at the events, it doesn't cost NHRA any additional funds to book in filler material between the Pro sessions.

According to Jeff Burke (Burke's Blast) an unnamed NHRA executive told him “It takes more money, more personnel, more time, and we get more grief from a single sportsman classes than any pro class. We lose money on the sportsman classes every year”

My thoughts as a fan only, run the pro classes, alcohol cars and add Pro Mod and some nitro bikes to the national events and run the sportsman separately. This offers a better TV package, more bang for the buck if you will. This would put the "Pro" in modified and add some cool factor with the nitro bikes. The sportsman are just that and they will race for the love of the sport. They don't get TV time anyway so I don't think it would make a difference to them.

PS: As I said I'm just a fan. I may not know all the benefits to the sportsman for running at a national event with the pros so this may not be a good thing for them. Just thinking out loud.

 

[stanman]

According to Jeff Burke (Burke's Blast) an unnamed NHRA executive told him “It takes more money, more personnel, more time, and we get more grief from a single sportsman classes than any pro class. We lose money on the sportsman classes every year”

An un-named blowhard who doesn't have the sense to sit down and do the math.

But he is correct in that it takes more money, more personnel, and more time... time being the only significant factor. And the reason they get more grief from sportsman is because the NHRA kisses the Pros' asses while they shit all over the sportmen!

To the rest of your post Jim, sportsmen not running at nationals would be fine with me. But there are a good many sportsman racers around the country who have sponsorships that are dependent on them running at national events. National events still provide the greatest amount of exposure for a sponsor whether the racer be a pro or sportsman.

Also, don't forget, ESPN2 does produce a certain number of sportsman shows from select national events!

 

[yoda]

I hope everyone knows that Sportsman includes more than just door cars built in somebody's garage on the weeknights...

The investment in more than half of the classes is beyond where the Pro classes were 20 years ago... Top notch cars, Stacker rigs and huge sponsor commitments, as well as in-house R&D that isn't cheap.. For the average Nitro fan, these cars are gnats on the ass of their weekend, but I will bet that the flavor of the national events (especially INDY) will be a bit weak if the "amature" racers get the ol' heave-ho...

There's a hundred million reasons to leave the lineup of competition just the way it is, IMHO...

 

[Joker]

According to Jeff Burke (Burke's Blast) an unnamed NHRA executive told him “It takes more money, more personnel, more time, and we get more grief from a single sportsman classes than any pro class. We lose money on the sportsman classes every year”
.

I dont care if Wally or Graham or whoever comes out and says it, there is no freaking way they lose money on the sportsman guys.

Say there are 350 cars, thats at $400 a piece: $140,000
Most have atleast 2 crew guys (some have up to 8): 700 at $75: $52,500
and even though most of them provide there own food, some of them still buy it there, so you have to figure that several more thousands of dollars.

So there taking in around $200k a race, and only paying out a little over $50k. How in the hell are they losing money? Answer: THEY AINT

 

[DrRocket]

I have always enjoyed watching the "sportsman" cars as much as the pros, especially the stockers and super stockers.

When I brought my son to his first race in '05, he was as fascinated with them as I have always been. I'd sure hate to see them disappear from the national events.

Besides, I get more room to sit when they run.