NHRA open to 1/8 mile? (4 Viewers)

[JRW]

If they go 1/8 mi, why not make it 200' because 99.9% of the race will be determined by then.

Holeshot natls,i watched ihras 8th on tv and it seemed busy,like the 4 wides,not interested

 

[twostep]

Carl, that's not due to excitement. That just happens in our stage of life.

You got that right, buddy.

 

[Von Halen]

The pros outweigh the cons ten to one.

I’d like to see your ten to one lists.

As a LONG time fan, if they go to 1/8 mile, I’ll be out.

I used to call on the Goodyear Innovation Center and spent a good amount of time there. They liked the NHRA pushing the limits because it kept them busy innovating. They seemed to think they’d always be able to stay ahead of the curve, no matter how high the speeds go.

 

[z28]

It wasn't that long when supercharged nitro engines were in the 5-6000hp range and I can personally testify that I witnessed just as much carnage and oildowns as they have now. I don't follow nostalgia racing that much but it's my understanding they're no stranger to engine grenades either. Face it - you run supercharged nitro, you're gonna have to put the pieces back together with regularity. There's no end of videos and pictures that will confirm.

If all you want to do is trim trap speeds that's relatively simple. If you want to trim the catastrophes it starts in the barrel. The one marked METHANOL.

Look. Nobody's having problems with 1000 feet because of the length except the old school purists who don't consider it 'real drag racing'. The pros outweigh the cons ten to one. But 660' racing ain't a case of too much of a good thing is just enough. My opinion; sorry, Big Daddy. And I have a question since I'm not qualified to know the answer. I do know the synthetics are much more difficult to clean up than conventional oil so what would be the drawback to returning to it in the fuel classes? It won't stop oildowns but it should substantially cut down on the time it takes to clean 'em up.

I don't think motor oil is as bad as rear differential lube. That stuff is thicker and way harder to absorb. Engine oil, as long as it stays in one or two spots is reasonably quick to clean. Maybe they need better diapers because they will blow up.

 

[Cliff]

I now think that 350 could be run this year. I've also noted a few times that IF racing goes to 1/8 mile, it would not take very long to run 310, and then how long to 320, 330, 340, etc. Of course, ETs will get quicker. If a car could run 350 in the 1/8, what would the ET be? 2.00? 1.99? Blink yer eyes...

 

[yoda]

I now think that 350 could be run this year. I've also noted a few times that IF racing goes to 1/8 mile, it would not take very long to run 310, and then how long to 320, 330, 340, etc. Of course, ETs will get quicker. If a car could run 350 in the 1/8, what would the ET be? 2.00? 1.99? Blink yer eyes...

Anyone been to the slot car drags lately?

 

[Litefoot]

dont ya have to sign a waiver saying you wont sue and at your own risk?? I sigh a waiver when i race,if thats not how it is it should be,then we wouldnt be fighting over this,not sayimg we should go 400 mph

In Nevada you can sign one but the state does not let anyone sign there rights away, so a lawsuit is legal to pursue, don’t know if the law is still the same or if other states have the same laws

 

[GumbyWVU]

On the heels of racing legends (Garlits, Amato, Bernstein) advocating for a return to 1/4 mile racing comes Bobby "eighth mile" Bennett suggesting that by Xtreme becoming a member track it could change NHRA to an 1/8 mile sport. Nope.

I'll take the old-school stance that 1/4 mile is racing; 1/8 mile is for testing. Feel free to disagree, and I realize some tracks can't support a full-length race. The article was making a big deal out of the fact some nitro cars have tested at Xtreme. True, but that doesn't mean they want that to be the racing distance.

I think it's important to mention here that there are tons of 1/8 mile tracks that are NHRA sanctioned, so why would Xtreme joining NHRA be any different, and why - as the article implies - would that have any impact on the sport overall other than adding another place to race to NHRA rules? Not to take anything away from Xtreme as it is a nice facility... but so are some others. Not every 1/8 mile track is a backwoods, borderline outlaw track, so just adding Xtreme to the roster is no reason to even talk the silliness of making the whole sport 1/8 mile.

And then came the statement I've expected to hear for years, "I mean, you're shutting them off at a thousand-foot now, so why not shut them off at 660?" Sure, and then why not at 330'? It's a bogus slippery slope argument. In my mind this comment is yet another proof 1,000 foot was a wrong-headed decision that neglected to consider the impact on the sport and unintended consequences.

I was a bit surprised to hear Glen Cromwell chime in saying "we've got to be open minded." No Mr. Cromwell, you need to understand your customer and cater to them. Organizations that fail to do this... fail. Pay attention to what happened to IHRA when they wanted to run everything to 1/8 mile; sportsman racers revolted and they changed their mind to run 1/4 mile where they can. Then take a look at Gainesville, quarter mile, sold out. Almost all fields were full and well over 90% of quotas (TA/FC was weak) https://www.nhraeventreg.com/ListEventStatus.asp. Do you honestly beleive that would be true if they knew it was going to be a 1/8 mile? I'm doubtfull.

Thanks for reading my OPINION and yes I got a little up on the tire

Mind if I play devil's advocate for a minute?

Ok now that I have that out of the way.....I like your post honestly. One question though - how much should the sport adapt for a "new" audience? I've always had the concern that the original product should be enticing enough, mostly, but using your aptly applied slippery-slope argument, changing for the new people will result in something altogether different in a few years. Most of us got hooked without the product adapting. Would like to hear thoughts about this.

And in another post, there was a quote from Wally Parks about 1/8. With all due respect to Mr. Parks, just because he said that doesn't make it a good idea. Ask any hard-core Star Trek nut about Gene Roddenberry. I can handle 1/8 for the sportsman, but never the pro categories, unless they are exhibitions at small, local 1/8 tracks. Been there and seen that.

 

[ironpony]

Mind if I play devil's advocate for a minute?

View attachment 17160


Ok now that I have that out of the way.....I like your post honestly. One question though - how much should the sport adapt for a "new" audience? I've always had the concern that the original product should be enticing enough, mostly, but using your aptly applied slippery-slope argument, changing for the new people will result in something altogether different in a few years. Most of us got hooked without the product adapting. Would like to hear thoughts about this.

And in another post, there was a quote from Wally Parks about 1/8. With all due respect to Mr. Parks, just because he said that doesn't make it a good idea. Ask any hard-core Star Trek nut about Gene Roddenberry. I can handle 1/8 for the sportsman, but never the pro categories, unless they are exhibitions at small, local 1/8 tracks. Been there and seen that.

IMO it is not the product, it is the consumer. Kids today have minimal interest in cars, really there are no cars left now. Previously they had 3 maybe 4 that were even remotely "cool". Even with me loving the sport and racing I could not get my kids interested, same with my BIL's kids.

Mid 60's to mid 70's cars were a way of life, freedom, building tinkering. There were so many brands and models to chose from.
Kids today do not even want to get their licenses, never mind build or work on a car.

The truth is the diehard racers, spectators are 50+ the older ones are dying off and very few are being replaced by young enthusiasts. The world is changing and not many want to spend a full day to watch cars they are not interested in then add on top of that the down time between rounds and they rather go do other things. Yes some come out once a year to watch the nitro circus but once they leave the show they do not even think about a car again until the show comes back.

If they are interested how many can afford to buy a late model then have the money to mod it which take a degree in engineering and computer science to just make the thing run. We could buy a car for a few hundred add parts cheap and go fast never leaving the driveway.

The up and coming have little interest in racing cars or cars in general.

 

[z28]

IMO it is not the product, it is the consumer. Kids today have minimal interest in cars, really there are no cars left now. Previously they had 3 maybe 4 that were even remotely "cool". Even with me loving the sport and racing I could not get my kids interested, same with my BIL's kids.

Mid 60's to mid 70's cars were a way of life, freedom, building tinkering. There were so many brands and models to chose from.
Kids today do not even want to get their licenses, never mind build or work on a car.

The truth is the diehard racers, spectators are 50+ the older ones are dying off and very few are being replaced by young enthusiasts. The world is changing and not many want to spend a full day to watch cars they are not interested in then add on top of that the down time between rounds and they rather go do other things. Yes some come out once a year to watch the nitro circus but once they leave the show they do not even think about a car again until the show comes back.

If they are interested how many can afford to buy a late model then have the money to mod it which take a degree in engineering and computer science to just make the thing run. We could buy a car for a few hundred add parts cheap and go fast never leaving the driveway.

The up and coming have little interest in racing cars or cars in general.

although in the minority there are still younger ones out there but today they have so many other things to do. Back in the day kids would congregate in parking lots and talk for hours. Now they are on the phone all night gaming or telling tales

 

[yoda]

In regards to kids being able to have cars as a hobby: Still lots of old cars around that could use some love. It always amazes me how many race cars in our sport I see from the 50s and 60s, and even some where the shell was from the 40s.
Biggest problem is everyone with a rusted hulk in their yard thinks that it's worth six figures that's to B/J Auctions.
Now, if we can just get Reinhart to stop scooping up all the cool ones...

 

[GumbyWVU]

IMO it is not the product, it is the consumer. Kids today have minimal interest in cars, really there are no cars left now. Previously they had 3 maybe 4 that were even remotely "cool". Even with me loving the sport and racing I could not get my kids interested, same with my BIL's kids.

Mid 60's to mid 70's cars were a way of life, freedom, building tinkering. There were so many brands and models to chose from.
Kids today do not even want to get their licenses, never mind build or work on a car.

The truth is the diehard racers, spectators are 50+ the older ones are dying off and very few are being replaced by young enthusiasts. The world is changing and not many want to spend a full day to watch cars they are not interested in then add on top of that the down time between rounds and they rather go do other things. Yes some come out once a year to watch the nitro circus but once they leave the show they do not even think about a car again until the show comes back.

If they are interested how many can afford to buy a late model then have the money to mod it which take a degree in engineering and computer science to just make the thing run. We could buy a car for a few hundred add parts cheap and go fast never leaving the driveway.

The up and coming have little interest in racing cars or cars in general.

Very good points, and I think mostly the same. Perhaps time is passing up the sport as we know it. Seems strange to me, that would could very well be witnessing it in person. Guess we should just enjoy it while we can.

And sadly, from what I've seen (not just at races but at other events) people watch their phones almost as much as the live product. Good thing passes are under 5 seconds because that's what seem like the away-from-phone attention span.

 

[yoda]

Baseball has had a lot of revisions over the past 100 years as well, and a lot of those that long-time fans are about as p!$$ed off about those changes as we are at the sanctioning bodies. Didn't seem to stop the juggernaut that is the MLB from telling its older fan base to get on board or watch on TV. Or go watch pickleball...

 

[Prestaged]

I don't post here much, though I am reading comments every day. I will say that twice in recent years I have felt like retching when I have read editorials on Bennett's site. The first was when he advocated that all NHRA National Events be run to 1,000 feet - all classes. Now this 1/8 mile nonsense. Just makes me want to puke.

 

[Prestaged]

Baseball has had a lot of revisions over the past 100 years as well, and a lot of those that long-time fans are about as p!$$ed off about those changes as we are at the sanctioning bodies. Didn't seem to stop the juggernaut that is the MLB from telling its older fan base to get on board or watch on TV. Or go watch pickleball...

Not really sure what you are trying to say here. But I will tell you that baseball was once the national pastime, and it is not even close now. It is way behind football and possibly behind basketball. In the not too distant future it may be behind pickleball. Don't laugh at that. So, my point is that NHRA can't ignore where it came from and expect to survive. It did not start with the type of fan base that baseball had, and can expect to fall much faster.

 

[twostep]

I’d like to see your ten to one lists.

As a LONG time fan, if they go to 1/8 mile, I’ll be out.

I used to call on the Goodyear Innovation Center and spent a good amount of time there. They liked the NHRA pushing the limits because it kept them busy innovating. They seemed to think they’d always be able to stay ahead of the curve, no matter how high the speeds go.

I hope you didn't think I was suggesting 1/8 mile is 10 to 1 better than 1000 feet !

Advantages over 1320....

1) Fans see more of the race
2) Closer racing, not always but generally speaking
3) Less expense. That extra 3/4 of a second adds to parts attrition and there's some added fuel expense also
4) Less carnage overall; most explosions in years past took place from 1000 to 1320
5) Less shutoff area required
6) Companies that insure the track prefer it
7) Track owners themselves prefer it
8) The drivers prefer it
9) The teams prefer it
10) Goodyear prefers it

Advantages of 1320 over 1000: Tradition. That's it. It's not the numbers, not when we have cars currently running over 340mph.

And it's the reason people like yourself prefer it and that's just fine. You're not alone. But one thing's for certain - there is no way NHRA could return to 1/4 mile nitro racing with cars at their current power levels. Slowing them and how to go about slowing them has been argued for 20 years or more and so far while most people concur - less wind and less fuel - nobody is actually willing to go backwards.

 

[yoda]

Not really sure what you are trying to say here. But I will tell you that baseball was once the national pastime, and it is not even close now. It is way behind football and possibly behind basketball. In the not too distant future it may be behind pickleball. Don't laugh at that. So, my point is that NHRA can't ignore where it came from and expect to survive. It did not start with the type of fan base that baseball had, and can expect to fall much faster.

Hey Roger... nope, you got my point exactly. Baseball had a good 60-80 year heyday. And still fell off the mountain. Fun to watch, everyone could play at a lower level and at one point, it was where heros were created.
Drag racing had that for at best 10-20 years (68-77 rocked). And now?
When the opinions of the heros of the sport are snubbed as the rants of old men, and the sport has decades like the last 20 years, the fall, as you said, can expect to be much faster (and deeper).

 

[JRW]

I hope you didn't think I was suggesting 1/8 mile is 10 to 1 better than 1000 feet !

Advantages over 1320....

1) Fans see more of the race
2) Closer racing, not always but generally speaking
3) Less expense. That extra 3/4 of a second adds to parts attrition and there's some added fuel expense also
4) Less carnage overall; most explosions in years past took place from 1000 to 1320
5) Less shutoff area required
6) Companies that insure the track prefer it
7) Track owners themselves prefer it
8) The drivers prefer it
9) The teams prefer it
10) Goodyear prefers it

Advantages of 1320 over 1000: Tradition. That's it. It's not the numbers, not when we have cars currently running over 340mph.

And it's the reason people like yourself prefer it and that's just fine. You're not alone. But one thing's for certain - there is no way NHRA could return to 1/4 mile nitro racing with cars at their current power levels. Slowing them and how to go about slowing them has been argued for 20 years or more and so far while most people concur - less wind and less fuel - nobody is actually willing to go backwards.

You know for sure all teams and drivers want the 8th mile???

 

[twostep]

You know for sure all teams and drivers want the 8th mile???

Jeremy, my man....no offense but please pay attention to what I posted. First off I never said ALL teams and drivers. Second, I made it a point to emphasize I was discussing 1000 feet vs 1320, NOT 1/8 mile vs 1000 or 1320. Finally, I was pretty clear when I discussed my opinion of 1/8 mile nitro racing and the reasons why. Post 3, 12, 14, 36 ( "I hope you didn't think I was suggesting 1/8 mile is 10 to 1 better than 1000 feet !" )