N.J. State Police, NHRA to study accident (1 Viewer)

[Ken]

Folks, don't get too excited about the NJ State Police investigation. Motorsports in NJ is regulated by the State, with the State Police assigned responsibility to inforce state DMV regulations as part of their duties. All fatal accidents (or accidents that may result in a fatality) involving a motor vehicle (in any venue) in the state must be investigated with proper reports filed. This information at times will lead to positive change in the regulations. As a side note, alot of this information is made available to hospital trauma centers, who in turn use the information to LEARN BETTER METHODS for treating trauma patients. NJ has one of the best, if not the best, trauma medicine systems in the country.

Up until the early 1970's, NJ law forbid anyone under the age of 18 from entering a pit area at any race track. The NJ State Police was responsible for enforcing this. The happiest day of my teenage years was when the minumum age was lowered and I could finally see the drivers and cars up close. Now it's not uncommon to see many families pushing infants in strollers through the pits.

A few years ago there was a bit of a "hub bub" at at craftsman truck race because the state required all drivers with open face helmets to also wear a nomex hood that covered the open face area. Some of the touring drivers were not happy. But the NJSP enforced the rule and everyone had them to race. A year or two later Dale Sr. was lost at Daytona. Now just about every driver uses a full face helmet.

It's not uncommon for the NJ Sate Police to assume jurisdiction at any major sports event Whether it be motorsports, a golf tournament, or even the football games at Giants Stadium. They're just better prepared and have the resources to handle those "big crowd" events.

Raceway Park is not an unsafe facility. Not any more unsafe than Daytona or any other track where fatalities have occurred. It's the sport that can be unsafe when things go wrong. Please, stop pointing fingers without the facts. We already have too many lawyers in this state. We don't need to import any more. The NJ State Police investigators have nothing to hide, do not have to answer to any sponsors, and most importantly, they don't drive Bentleys.

 

[.]

Also, to my knowledge, it is the only state making it illegal to pump your own gas.

Oregon too.

 

[megadeth]

I used to promote musclecar events and when we put one for the first time at Atco I found that New Jersey is one of the most regulated states in the US.

Yes, the police investigate any fatal accident even if it was on private property. I was told that even a non-fatal accident could result in the police taking the event over in order to do their investigation if they so chose.

We allowed free entry to law officers. I was amazed at the different departments that all had enforcement powers at that location. If I remember properly, we let in officers from the county, township, state, and at least one other jurisdiction.

When racing at Englishtown, I found that the state even controlled how many restricted area passes could be issued for each team. At that time, Pro Stock was allowed 3 passes but only 2 people were allowed on the starting line there.

New Jersey has a number of laws which make it unique. At least a few years ago, a state permit was required to have a nitrous bottle in your car. Also, to my knowledge, it is the only state making it illegal to pump your own gas.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I thought it was important to note that a state investigation of the accident is nothing but business as usual and certainly doesn't indicate any unusual events or suspicions.

Oregon has the same law about pumping your own gas. Creating the need for a job as a gas station attendant.
Having so many laws is BS.

 

[The Fish]

Raceway Park is not an unsafe facility. Not any more unsafe than Daytona or any other track where fatalities have occurred. It's the sport that can be unsafe when things go wrong. Please, stop pointing fingers without the facts. We already have too many lawyers in this state. We don't need to import any more. The NJ State Police investigators have nothing to hide, do not have to answer to any sponsors, and most importantly, they don't drive Bentleys.

Agreed to a point i dont think that there is any completely safe track its almost impossible however, like i said before i am not pointing fingers even though i do have facts that could help me do that!! The tracks owner has already stated in a article as well as the police that the car LAUNCHED into that pole that scott hit! Now if i am not mistaken the point of a sand trap at the end of the track is for the cars to hit it and kinda dig the whells in and slow it down! But in this case the car hit the sand and launched into the air now u can sit here and argue with me about how it was because of the speed he was going but go back and look at the doug foley incident!! How did the car get under the net like it did?? Because if you go back in look at the tape the dragster hit the sand and launched the car into the air and the front end hit the net as it landed!! There was a lip on that sand that was unsafe and should have been taken care of after the foley incident! Now i am not sitting here saying that if that lip was not there that scott would be here today what i am saying is that i may have helped with the sand trap doing what it is supposed to do! Again not trying to start a war just stating facts!!

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Also, to my knowledge, it is the only state making it illegal to pump your own gas.

That's because the majority of residents in this state, want it that way.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Now i am not pointing fingers or trying to start a war but I also know alot more to this story than most!! I feel it was something that needed to be delt with long before this happend for this reason!! But like i said not trying to start crap just saying my 2 cents worth!!

I'd say you were just a little too late, the moment you hit the enter key, Clint.

I've known the owners of Raceway Park, back to when they were Michael's grandfather, Vince Sr, and 'Uncle Louie".

This family has been dedicated to the safety of drag racers for decades, and few track owners have endured more crap to keep their establishment going, then the 3 generations of the Napp family.

If their safety was a concern, I know that any racer would have approached this subject with not only the track owners, but with NHRA, long before now. What possible purpose would be served, by not addressing such concerns?

I am confident that whatever needs to be done to improve the safety of this track and all tracks, as a result of all investigations into this terrible accident, will be done. Upgrades to safey, whether it be equipment, tracks, facilities, have always come about as the result of a tragedy. Until those results have been filed, no good can come from pointing fingers at anyone.

JMHO of course.

 

[The Fish]

I'd say you were just a little too late, the moment you hit the enter key, Clint.

I've known the owners of Raceway Park, back to when they were Michael's grandfather, Vince Sr, and 'Uncle Louie".

This family has been dedicated to the safety of drag racers for decades, and few track owners have endured more crap to keep their establishment going, then the 3 generations of the Napp family.

If their safety was a concern, I know that any racer would have approached this subject with not only the track owners, but with NHRA, long before now. What possible purpose would be served, by not addressing such concerns?

I am confident that whatever needs to be done to improve the safety of this track and all tracks, as a result of all investigations into this terrible accident, will be done. Upgrades to safey, whether it be equipment, tracks, facilities, have always come about as the result of a tragedy. Until those results have been filed, no good can come from pointing fingers at anyone.

JMHO of course.

Ya i am not gonna get mad i am not pointing fingers i am stating what i have heard from close friends in the pro ranks and from word of mouth of people who where at the top end and watched this whole deal!! I agree they will do what it takes to make the track safe i am not bashing E-town or the nhra i am just saying what alot of racers wont get on here and say!!

 

[Toejam]

I bet that if NHRA told E-Town to find someway to lenghthen the Shut down like Columbus did during Race weekends or else lose the race. I bet arrangements would be made to keep the race, any bets?

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Ya i am not gonna get mad i am not pointing fingers i am stating what i have heard from close friends in the pro ranks and from word of mouth of people who where at the top end and watched this whole deal!! I agree they will do what it takes to make the track safe i am not bashing E-town or the nhra i am just saying what alot of racers wont get on here and say!!

Apparently, you feel it is your place to 'say what a lot of racers won't get on here and say.'

Perhaps you've heard of the word respect? That is why the professional racers I know, aren't 'on here' saying anything. I'm sure that the ones you know are thrilled with you for speaking for them.

" i am stating what i have heard from close friends in the pro ranks and from word of mouth of people who where at the top end and watched this whole deal!! " It's called gossip, Clint, when one person says what they 'heard', and professional racers don't generally appreciate it at all. I'm sure as you get older, you'll come to realize this. At least I hope so.

Defend yourself and your comments all you wish. I've said all that needs to be said about it.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

I bet that if NHRA told E-Town to find someway to lenghthen the Shut down like Columbus did during Race weekends or else lose the race. I bet arrangements would be made to keep the race, any bets?

Oh, I don't know Joe. To me, this is much too serious an issue, to be placing 'bets' on, much less speculating on what NHRA, and Raceway Park, will or won't do.

Time will tell.

 

[__]

I bet that if NHRA told E-Town to find someway to lenghthen the Shut down like Columbus did during Race weekends or else lose the race. I bet arrangements would be made to keep the race, any bets?

I would take that bet anyday. The Napp family has struggled to keep this facility open despite vocal opposition from wealthy locals. Bottom line is this track lives day to day. Force them to close a public road 3 days a year and I think you can kiss the national event goodbye.

 

[TJ]

JOE...you are very correct on the 'lengthen your shut-down or lose an event' subject-

 

[----NONE----]

Before anyone begins pointing fingers, let's remember that his engine exploded in the lights first.

You are absolutely correct, sir. I wasn't pointing fingers, I was just wondering what the consequences of an investigation might be. That's all...

 

[onfire]

I would take that bet anyday. The Napp family has struggled to keep this facility open despite vocal opposition from wealthy locals. Bottom line is this track lives day to day. Force them to close a public road 3 days a year and I think you can kiss the national event goodbye.

When they closed the road in Columbus, I believe it was just closed during the Nitro qualifying sessions and was reopened to local traffic after said sessions.

Late...........Mitch

 

[nick name]

That's because the majority of residents in this state, want it that way.

I don't disagree at all. In fact, it's a shame that's not the law here.

More jobs, and maybe my windshield would get cleaned every once in a while.

 

[Ken]

JOE...you are very correct on the 'lengthen your shut-down or lose an event' subject-

So Pomona loses two events and the NHRA home track closes.

yeh, right.

And maybe Tom will trade in the Bentley for a KIA 'cause he is so worried about the cost of nitro... ooops, I meant gasoline.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I would take that bet anyday. The Napp family has struggled to keep this facility open despite vocal opposition from wealthy locals. Bottom line is this track lives day to day. Force them to close a public road 3 days a year and I think you can kiss the national event goodbye.

A friend of mine who attended a town meeting in Englishtown said the Napps once showed the community renderings of low income housing projects they could build that would bring in a lot more money than the race track does. Supposedly shut up some NIMBYs.

Doesn't Englishtown already have wrap around type staging lanes? No room could be had on the starting line end to move the track back to gain more shutdown area?

 

[nick name]

Agreed to a point i dont think that there is any completely safe track its almost impossible however, like i said before i am not pointing fingers even though i do have facts that could help me do that!! The tracks owner has already stated in a article as well as the police that the car LAUNCHED into that pole that scott hit! Now if i am not mistaken the point of a sand trap at the end of the track is for the cars to hit it and kinda dig the whells in and slow it down! But in this case the car hit the sand and launched into the air now u can sit here and argue with me about how it was because of the speed he was going but go back and look at the doug foley incident!! How did the car get under the net like it did?? Because if you go back in look at the tape the dragster hit the sand and launched the car into the air and the front end hit the net as it landed!! There was a lip on that sand that was unsafe and should have been taken care of after the foley incident! Now i am not sitting here saying that if that lip was not there that scott would be here today what i am saying is that i may have helped with the sand trap doing what it is supposed to do! Again not trying to start a war just stating facts!!

Sorry, but it IS a case of speed affecting effectiveness.

Both a sand trap and a water trap are designed to slow down cars that are still on the ground and not in the process of taking off. When the vehicle is going sufficiently fast, it's not going to dig in. Ever seen a high speed drag boat crash? When the speed is great enough, even a non-solid surface doesn't get penetrated.

When NASA tested land-based rocket vehicles in the early days of the space program, they stopped the sled with a wet concrete bath. However, the tracks were IN the bath at the end. I can't imagine allowing a car to enter a concrete bath in the event of running long. The materials, manpower, and used bath disposal issues boggles the mind.

You're assuming that the sand area is designed to be fail-safe. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a stopgap, last ditch effort to lessen speed under certain conditions. It's also the best we have at the moment.

For those suggesting an aircraft carrier sort of arresting hook, there's a lot you're not aware of. Those hooks aren't connected to springs or anything of the sort. There is a very complicated system powered by steam which includes cylinders/pistons/rams running a large portion of the length of the ship. There are also multiple cables at different distances down the landing deck in case any are missed by the hook.

Once you've overcome that packaging angle, then do the math to account for the mass to be decellerated, the speed at contact, and the distance you have to dissipate that energy. Remember, the first prerequisite is that a driver can not be further harmed by the system. No fair designing a system with 1000 G decelleration.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but attempting to point out that if anyone has a soundly engineered replacement for the present system I am positive the Napps along with the NHRA would be very interested in talking to you.

I've seen unconscious driver scenarios before and they almost always end badly. I think that's the real issue here. In no way do I want to minimize the tragedy that occured, nor those who were injured or killed in the past. It's akin to a lightning strike and honestly may not be survivable under any technology.

 

[Toejam]

I would take that bet anyday. The Napp family has struggled to keep this facility open despite vocal opposition from wealthy locals. Bottom line is this track lives day to day. Force them to close a public road 3 days a year and I think you can kiss the national event goodbye.

Charles, Columbus basically put in a stoplight there. Between pairs of cars traffic was let through as normal. I know it sounds strange, but that's the way they did it at C-Bus for years!

 

[__]

[/B]When they closed the road in Columbus, I believe it was just closed during the Nitro qualifying sessions and was reopened to local traffic after said sessions.

Late...........Mitch

A friend of mine who attended a town meeting in Englishtown said the Napps once showed the community renderings of low income housing projects they could build that would bring in a lot more money than the race track does. Supposedly shut up some NIMBYs.

Doesn't Englishtown already have wrap around type staging lanes? No room could be had on the starting line end to move the track back to gain more shutdown area?

Charles, Columbus basically put in a stoplight there. Between pairs of cars traffic was let through as normal. I know it sounds strange, but that's the way they did it at C-Bus for years!

Good points all and I guess I should learn never to say never. Just that local opposition and real estate values have hounded tracks like Flemington and (most recently) Wall Township out of business. The locals have likewise hounded the Napp family for years. While I don't know them personally, I do feel confident in saying the Napp family has no problem investing $ in their facility. In recent years, they've added a Jr Dragster 1/8 mile strip, dirt bike courses and a paved road course. However, getting anything past the locals is tough. Those McMansion owners even got 2 politicos elected on the promise of shutting down the strip. Thankfully they failed and one (and possibly both) have been since voted out of office. I'm sure the Napp family is not resting easy after the events of last Saturday. They are racers as much as anybody else. A tragedy at their track has got to hurt a lot.