True,,,,,you need to re-read what I wrote. I said I agree that you couldn't win on tuning alone, and just made the factual observation that he didn't win until Coil came along....same for Kenny Bernstein. He basically couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper sack until AA/Dale came into the picture.
"Most Over-rated Funny Car Driver????" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter "Dr. Dirt"
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True,,,,,you need to re-read what I wrote. I said I agree that you couldn't win on tuning alone, and just made the factual observation that he didn't win until Coil came along....same for Kenny Bernstein. He basically couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper sack until AA/Dale came into the picture.
TAFC 5 81
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Yes, when those two joined up John had the reputation of making it to a final and not winning, and Coil had the Chi-Town legend and two FC titles (Hawley). Not to take anything from their dynasty, but it had benefit from Bernstein and Snake going TF in 1990 and Candies & Hughes fading away. Was John was one of the first to go the co- (or assistant) crew chief (like Cerney w/ Armstrong on the Bud team in 92)?
NitroRichFire
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John Force's record speaks for itself. Actions, speak much louder that words!
"Dr. Dirt"
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Well said Richard. Although, it does seem like many here feel he accidentally fell into his record number of wins & championships or that Coil's perfection must have kept him from ever having to pedal to win a race along the way or it was because all the "good" drivers quit or moved along the way leaving only him with a free ride to all finals.
Many here seem to believe he is, in fact, the most over-rated driver as Whit alluded directly to in his interview (he wasn't talking about Capps or Dunn-for those who've been needlessly kidding themselves about whom he was speaking.) I happen to believe these folks just don't like him for one reason or another? I think he's the best driver I've ever seen but I've only been following the sport for about 40 years.
JMHO?
willy
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I think it all comes down to success, Doc. Anybody..in any sport..who is as successful as Force has been..is going to get the knocks.
It happens in all the sports:
Anybody but Wolfgang
Anybody but Kinser
Anybody but Petty
Anybody but the Cowboys..hehe
Goes with the territory..and I don't believe for 1 minute..that Whit was serious when he poked at Force. It was a loaded question and we'd be hearing about it..no matter who he chose..
I'm not sure what you guys see with Force, or the lack there of, but I remember John back when he was scouring the country trying to make it as a Funny Car team owner on a budget. A man who worked for absolutely everything he has today, and a man who started with nothing in his pocket.
ANYBODY who thinks Force is over-rated, or non deserving of his position knows nothing..
The NHRA, and every racer and fan owes Force a debt of gratitude for making his name, and the NHRA a household word.
ANYBODY who thinks Force is over-rated, or non deserving of his position knows nothing..
The NHRA, and every racer and fan owes Force a debt of gratitude for making his name, and the NHRA a household word.
afx421
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POST OF THE MILLENIUM! cant agree more george. great post , no matter what driver you like we all must respect john for all of the things you said.
Dead on George. And for the Snake and Bernstein going to Top Fuel as being the reason that Force won all those championships. All I am saying is this: Last time Snake won the Funny Car Championship, 1978. Not saying it didnt help some, but come on.
Redman
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There are times when the Crew Chief makes the driver look like an all-star. There are times when the driver saves the crew chief. John and Austin have saved each other more times than all the other driver/crew chief combos combined. I'm not sure what Whit was thinking when he said this. I'll ask him. One thing that Whit brings to the table (along with his driving skill) is the ability to stir it up and get people talking.
Jim
Jim
Nitrohaulic
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I think Alan Bradshaw said it best on the old mater concerning his TAD championship. Naturally, I can't remember it word for word but, it was something like "You have to have every single person on the team doing their best, then you have to have some stars line up for you."
You give the people all the credit they deserve but, I think there's always an element of luck involved that you can't discount. That, or I'm supposed to believe that a bunch of crewchiefs can walk the track before their class runs, then several runs later still be able to apply just the right amount of power. If anyone was THAT good, they'd never smoke a tire.
I do seem to remember a Force story in which Austin told John that they couldn't run the way he wanted (maybe it was the lane they were stuck with?) He told John that HE was going to have to win this one, which he proceeded to go out and do.
You give the people all the credit they deserve but, I think there's always an element of luck involved that you can't discount. That, or I'm supposed to believe that a bunch of crewchiefs can walk the track before their class runs, then several runs later still be able to apply just the right amount of power. If anyone was THAT good, they'd never smoke a tire.
I do seem to remember a Force story in which Austin told John that they couldn't run the way he wanted (maybe it was the lane they were stuck with?) He told John that HE was going to have to win this one, which he proceeded to go out and do.
Yes,,,,that is all I as saying....it takes EVERYONE on the team to win 13 championships and not just the driver....even if the driver is John Force.
Yes you're correct and those actions are the result of an entire team of people ...not just the actions of Force.
Uh,
Where's your proof. I haven't seen anyone on here say he has fell into his championships.
Then you havent read all the posts b/c there here. Trust me. And if you cant find them, just keep watching, they will appear again.
I think there have been quite a number of racers that were "scouring the country trying to make it as a Funny Car team owner on a budget." Furthermore, I bet there are/were a whole slew of racers that "worked for absolutely everything" that they have/had when they are/were racing and I bet there have even been quite a few old and current racers that started doing this sport with "nothing in (their) pocket."
"ANYBODY who thinks" those racers are/were "over-rated, or non deserving of" their" position knows nothing..
The NHRA, and every racer and fan owes Force a debt of gratitude for making his name, and the NHRA a household word
Easy there, there are some mighty big legends from this sport that you just stepped on. I can ask people where I work if they have ever heard of John Force or Ron Capps or Larry Dixon or Tony Schumacher and most will answer no. But I can follow up that question if they have every heard of Big Daddy Don Garlits or the Snake or the Mongoose or Ronnie Sox or Jungle Jim, and I will get some that say, "Yeah, I have heard of him."
You make it sound as if there had not been a John Force, then we would still be having about 6 national meets a year, and still be sitting on old splinter wooden bleachers, and only get to see drag racing on the TV between segments of bowling and figure skating.
Come on...if they are here ...produce them
I can read, and I haven't read anyone saying that Force fell into his championships..
Come on....produce 'em
willy
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Jeez Don..what are you looking for an argument??
Nobody is stepping on anybody. And nobody is saying there was nothing before Force..I see it as merely a stepping stone in the ongoing future of drag racing. He was the first to take it to the next level.
There hasn't been anyone here stating that Force is the end all of anything. And if the people you ask have only heard of Big..& Mongoose..& Jungle..where you hangin man?? Just kidding of course.
"Dr. Dirt"
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Five of the last seven posts there Don? Really?
The question, in case you missed the original post, was John the most overrated funny car driver as Whit so clearly indicated -- never about him being the only Funny Car driver that should be recognized as someone worthy of discussion. Geeeeeesh!
I'm at a loss as to what your arguement is pressing?
Maybe you should re-read the thread before you post the next five of seven posts?
The question, in case you missed the original post, was John the most overrated funny car driver as Whit so clearly indicated -- never about him being the only Funny Car driver that should be recognized as someone worthy of discussion. Geeeeeesh!
I'm at a loss as to what your arguement is pressing?
Maybe you should re-read the thread before you post the next five of seven posts?
Nitrohaulic
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Give him a little understanding. November's coming up and we don't have a politics room anymore!
First, I'm looking at this objectivly, and I'm not an advocate of John Force..
The "other" thing that makes John Force great, and maybe the "greatest" in all motorsports is his uncanny ability to win, AND be loved.
Nobody else does it better.
Try to take THAT pressure to the staging lanes...
That is what makes John the best.
Nobody loves a winner.
Look at Dale Earnhardt as an example of someone in the white hot lights.. Like it or not, he was more hated by the masses. He couldn't stop the tide of hate when in a compromising position. After his death, suddenly, everybody was an Earnhardt fan..
Force knows what it takes on and "off" the track.
He knows how to be loved, how to talk and respect any fan, especially the drunk moron with the stupid comment who is hooting and hollaring like an inbred idiot.. He knows how to quickly defuse any potentially volatile situation, suck it up and spit out the right answer for the cameras and fans, while still projecting the "I'm one of you guys" preception...
In short, he cuts a perfect light at the mental and physcological side of the game every time.
He knows how to toss a bone to event sponsors, and even non competing driver sponsors. He knows how to connect with a crowd itching for a mistake, or a reason to HATE team Force. He never gives up that mistake, ever. That alone is remarkable..
Just look at any driver in the crosshairs..
Capps, Whit... All are faced with controversy, and fail on the first attempt.
Force never fails..
The "other" thing that makes John Force great, and maybe the "greatest" in all motorsports is his uncanny ability to win, AND be loved.
Nobody else does it better.
Try to take THAT pressure to the staging lanes...
That is what makes John the best.
Nobody loves a winner.
Look at Dale Earnhardt as an example of someone in the white hot lights.. Like it or not, he was more hated by the masses. He couldn't stop the tide of hate when in a compromising position. After his death, suddenly, everybody was an Earnhardt fan..
Force knows what it takes on and "off" the track.
He knows how to be loved, how to talk and respect any fan, especially the drunk moron with the stupid comment who is hooting and hollaring like an inbred idiot.. He knows how to quickly defuse any potentially volatile situation, suck it up and spit out the right answer for the cameras and fans, while still projecting the "I'm one of you guys" preception...
In short, he cuts a perfect light at the mental and physcological side of the game every time.
He knows how to toss a bone to event sponsors, and even non competing driver sponsors. He knows how to connect with a crowd itching for a mistake, or a reason to HATE team Force. He never gives up that mistake, ever. That alone is remarkable..
Just look at any driver in the crosshairs..
Capps, Whit... All are faced with controversy, and fail on the first attempt.
Force never fails..
