"Most Over-rated Funny Car Driver????" (1 Viewer)

[Hiproger]

To Dave Mac & others. I did not mean to slight anyone in my above statement. It's just that, for me at least, when we lost Steve we lost one of the truly great ones. Thank God we haven't lost you yet but unfortunately you are no longer behind the mike. That is our loss.
Dave, you & Bernie Partridge swapped places behind the mike when I attended my first National drag race in Indy 1961. Believe me it was an experience I've never forgotten in all these many years. Thank you for your great additions to my drag racing experiences. When you & Steve worked the National events together on TV there was no comparison. The new guys do a bang-up job but being an old dude, I was filled with the excitement of the old days & I guess no one nor nothing else will ever replace that.
I've been kind of melancholy lately & it helps to remember some of those great times. Not to worry about this melancholy business as it too soon passes, but thanks for listenin'. ........"HIP"

 

[Don]

In my opinion John Force has won the races and championships he has won because of:
1. His driving
2. Coil’s wrenching
3. The crew, crewing blood, sweat and tears
4. Sponsors checkbooks
5. And good ‘ol fashion…luck

Yes, John is a great driver, but he has never , ever, ever won a race without a combination of steps #1 through #5 above ….period

Does the fact that he didn’t win until Coil came along mean anything, or that he hasn’t won a race without Coil mean anything?

ABSOLUTULY NOT……

It does mean one thing though……it says a lot about the personal and professional relationship that Force and Coil has in light of the 20 years they have raced together, especially when you consider how many racer/crew chief combinations sometimes do not even last 1 year, much less 5 years or 10 years.

So is John Force a great driver? YES
Is John Force over-rated as a driver? NO
Did John Force fall into his championships? NO

To those of you that still insist that the only reason John Force wins is solely because of his driving then let me share something with you. He is a drag racer…not a Messiah or a Prophet. He can drive a flopper like white on rice, but he can’t walk on water.

 

[Don]

...

I think John's championship run is a perfect example of that. Is it John's fault? No, absolutely not. Did he accomplish what he did because of his driving skills or Coil's tuning? Both. I've read this thread at various stages of its development & it's bounced around a little, but the bottom line is that regardless of "pure driving talent" no driver can win without a talented tuner & no talented tuner can win without a good driver - it's really quite simple.

Does that make John over-rated? Not in my mind.

I am curious how you conclude that Dave is saying that it was John's fault that he won when he did??

Did he say something untrue?

His statement was not a slam, but a statement that indicated that here was a person that did exactly what you wrote....his statement indicates that he (Force) DID take adavantage of the timing and WAS succesful at doing so.

 

[Gordon]

It was not my intention to say anything was anyone's fault, nor was I accusing Dave of anything. I apologize if anyone else took it that way.

I was merely pointing out that Dave was, in fact, correct - John was in the right place, with the right people at the right time. It's nobody's fault & perhaps that was the wrong word, but I think the bulk of my post speaks for itself. John took advantage while the taking was good, that's all.

 

[staggerlee]

Steve Evans may have had as much to do with Force's success as Coil, Fedderly and the rest. He capitalized on the whole "loquacious one" routine,never knowing where it would go or for how long. The crowd loved it...john had Charisma and NHRA was in a slump. Couple that with Johns previous up in flames(no wins)finals, some savvy marketing skills and some old fashioned luck and NHRA was saved. Those who mentioned Big, Sox, and Jungle....they indeed are legends...but in Drag Racing period more so than specifically NHRA. I watched them all as match racers. Overrated? not IMHO....NHRA owes him. Whit put me off when he started whining at the outset of his public career...but he has enough fans that i have to guess he's probably an alright guy...just misunderstood.

 

[Don]

....NHRA owes him. .

Owes him what?

You saying that had there not been John Force, the NHRA and drag racing would have faded away to nothing but memories?

 

[Nitrohaulic]

This thread is why I pretty much could care less who wins any race (with the exception of rooting for an underdog. ). For me, when two nitro cars manage to make side-by-side passes under power, it's about the audio and visual show they provide. I'm more interested in seeing who wins if it turns into a pedalfest!

The only time I really care about how a driver acts outside of the car is when I think it's in a way that puts our sport in a bad light/gives it a bad reputation which, in my opinion, endangers the attraction of quality sponsors. That has nothing to do with "liking" or "not liking" someone.

 

[George.]

Owes him what?

You saying that had there not been John Force, the NHRA and drag racing would have faded away to nothing but memories?

There are a few select people in every kind of sport that helped build it into what it is today..
Big Daddy, Snake, Shirley, Connie, etc.
There is only one person who was so charismatic and appealing to the non drag racing fan, the ones that our sport needed to break out of it's shell..

I would go on to say that John Force was the most important personality the NHRA has ever seen, and may ever see. He is probably the best interview in all of sports, and gets a smirk a second look from my 77 year old mother.

I agree, the NHRA OWES Force..
The NHRA is a sport that is almost impossible to sell to television, and Force is what sold it, don't even try to second guess it.
A few cared about Kenny's ultra professionalism
Some tuned in to see if Cory Mac won first round.
A few liked to see if the Ace made his way to the final..
EVERYBODY wanted to hear what Force had to say, and it didn't matter if he even qualified.

 

[Joker]

There are a few select people in every kind of sport that helped build it into what it is today..
Big Daddy, Snake, Shirley, Connie, etc.
There is only one person who was so charismatic and appealing to the non drag racing fan, the ones that our sport needed to break out of it's shell..

I would go on to say that John Force was the most important personality the NHRA has ever seen, and may ever see. He is probably the best interview in all of sports, and gets a smirk a second look from my 77 year old mother.

I agree, the NHRA OWES Force..
The NHRA is a sport that is almost impossible to sell to television, and Force is what sold it, don't even try to second guess it.
A few cared about Kenny's ultra professionalism
Some tuned in to see if Cory Mac won first round.
A few liked to see if the Ace made his way to the final..
EVERYBODY wanted to hear what Force had to say, and it didn't matter if he even qualified.

Dead on, couldnt have said it better myself

 

[staggerlee]

Owes him what?

You saying that had there not been John Force, the NHRA and drag racing would have faded away to nothing but memories?

not exactly, but one never knows the coarse of any history had events not taken place. I do think they needed something badly when he showed up. like him or not Force is a tremendous marketing tool....as apparently Bazemore is becoming, to a lesser degree. As nascar moved to a more youthful,badboy,in your face style of driver to attract fans, others may have taken note.Personally, i prefer cool guys like Head, Pawuk, Scelzi, and Buff.

 

[staggerlee]

This thread is why I pretty much could care less who wins any race (with the exception of rooting for an underdog. ). For me, when two nitro cars manage to make side-by-side passes under power, it's about the audio and visual show they provide. I'm more interested in seeing who wins if it turns into a pedalfest!

The only time I really care about how a driver acts outside of the car is when I think it's in a way that puts our sport in a bad light/gives it a bad reputation which, in my opinion, endangers the attraction of quality sponsors. That has nothing to do with "liking" or "not liking" someone.

you make some good points ron...maybe the whining about 'hasmores" is seen as bad light by some. i love a good pedalfest with a handful of steering wheel thrown in!!

 

[Don]

not exactly, but one never knows the coarse of any history had events not taken place. I do think they needed something badly when he showed up. like him or not Force is a tremendous marketing tool.

I agree with you that we would never know where the sport would have went without many of the biggest stars that we had/have, just as we would never know how the country would be today had the political elections of the last 20 years yielded different winners. If I understand what you’re writing, you’re saying that prior to John Force in the mid 80’s the sport was suffering and "needed something badly when he showed up." That sounds as if your saying John Force is the only reason drag racing has obtain the popularly it has today?

Here is what I said about John Force in another thread, "I have never been a big fan of John’s, but I like him, as odd as that may sound… I still think he is a great racer and has a great team. Heck, I have even chose him once or twice this season so far, in the ‘mater’s Pick the Winners for each race. He is intense, he is funny, he is an icon of the sport…the Don Garlits of the 2000’s if you will,…"

Has he been a BIG plus for the sport? ABSOULUTY - YES
Has he had a direct influence in the growth and popular of the sport? ABSOULUTY - YES
Was he the only person associated with the sport that had a direct influence in the growth of the sport? ABSOULUTY - NOT
Does NHRA "owe him?" ABSOULUTY - YES
Is he the ONLY one that NHRA owes? ABSOULUTY - NOT
Who DOES the NHRA owe? They owe the fans, they owe the racers…the pros, they owe the non-pro racers, they owe the racer at the local track, they owe the sponsors, they owe the person that plants the seed in a young child that directs that child to grow up and participate and endorse the sport of drag racing.

 

[Don]

The NHRA is a sport that is almost impossible to sell to television, and Force is what sold it, don't even try to second guess it.
.

No second quessing...just a factual statement.
I watch a lot of drag racing on TV long before we ever heard of John Force

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Could it be said that at about the same time you started seeing John Force putting a lot of personality into interviews was about the same time that the sport NEEDED an interesting attraction as the cost to purse ratio was requiring that more cars replace what I think were much more fan friendly nicknames on the sides of the cars with corporate names?

I'm sure I may not be in the majority, but I DO miss the days when the margins weren't as close and the ones who won more often did so because they had some trick/advantage up their sleeve. Like Austin Coil recently said, with obvious frustration in his voice, they're not allowed to innovate anymore.

That's why I like a pedalfest. Now the driver's really in it!

I will add one more exception to what I said that I've had for a long time. I will always appreciate an owner, whether he or she drives or not, more than a hired driver. If they do happen to drive, all the better.

Maybe this just comes from being a small business owner and understanding what it is to have your survival depend on decisions that you have to make every day, along with some luck. John Force may have been a company driver when he drove trucks, but he's an owner-operator each time he straps himself in. A hired driver in either business can come in, tear your stuff up, then just walk away. There's an attitude that comes naturally for an owner that I don't think a "company driver" is ever going to get away with faking. If they try to, it shows.

 

[George.]

No second quessing...just a factual statement.
I watch a lot of drag racing on TV long before we ever heard of John Force

If only Don Richerson was called 10,000.000 times in a row by Neilson Ratings. Unfortunatly Don, the world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around turning the average "Joe" into a drag racing fan. That isn't done by showing side by side races of Hank Estes vs. Phill Hobbs. It's done by showcasing personalities and making viewers "fans" by creating a relationship they can share, and a driver they can root for..

There are two people in my book who the NHRA, and the rest of the drag racing world owes their TV existance to, and that is the late GREAT Steve Evans, who could gloss up the stiff and tongue tied, and John Force who just needed 20 seconds to win over the average Joe with his unglossed genius..
Remove either of those two from the equasion, and I don't know if the NHRA grows out of Diamond P Production and the Nashville Network.

 

[staggerlee]

I agree with you that we would never know where the sport would have went without many of the biggest stars that we had/have, just as we would never know how the country would be today had the political elections of the last 20 years yielded different winners. If I understand what you’re writing, you’re saying that prior to John Force in the mid 80’s the sport was suffering and "needed something badly when he showed up." That sounds as if your saying John Force is the only reason drag racing has obtain the popularly it has today?

Here is what I said about John Force in another thread, "I have never been a big fan of John’s, but I like him, as odd as that may sound… I still think he is a great racer and has a great team. Heck, I have even chose him once or twice this season so far, in the ‘mater’s Pick the Winners for each race. He is intense, he is funny, he is an icon of the sport…the Don Garlits of the 2000’s if you will,…"

Has he been a BIG plus for the sport? ABSOULUTY - YES
Has he had a direct influence in the growth and popular of the sport? ABSOULUTY - YES
Was he the only person associated with the sport that had a direct influence in the growth of the sport? ABSOULUTY - NOT
Does NHRA "owe him?" ABSOULUTY - YES
Is he the ONLY one that NHRA owes? ABSOULUTY - NOT
Who DOES the NHRA owe? They owe the fans, they owe the racers…the pros, they owe the non-pro racers, they owe the racer at the local track, they owe the sponsors, they owe the person that plants the seed in a young child that directs that child to grow up and participate and endorse the sport of drag racing.

no argument here...we're talking pivotal point is all. drag racing(NHRA or not)is way too cool to not have some following. it takes a village in 08? i hope not.

 

[Toejam]

You guys still beating this Dead horse????

 

[staggerlee]

Could it be said that at about the same time you started seeing John Force putting a lot of personality into interviews was about the same time that the sport NEEDED an interesting attraction as the cost to purse ratio was requiring that more cars replace what I think were much more fan friendly nicknames on the sides of the cars with corporate names?

I'm sure I may not be in the majority, but I DO miss the days when the margins weren't as close and the ones who won more often did so because they had some trick/advantage up their sleeve. Like Austin Coil recently said, with obvious frustration in his voice, they're not allowed to innovate anymore.

That's why I like a pedalfest. Now the driver's really in it!

I will add one more exception to what I said that I've had for a long time. I will always appreciate an owner, whether he or she drives or not, more than a hired driver. If they do happen to drive, all the better.

Maybe this just comes from being a small business owner and understanding what it is to have your survival depend on decisions that you have to make every day, along with some luck. John Force may have been a company driver when he drove trucks, but he's an owner-operator each time he straps himself in. A hired driver in either business can come in, tear your stuff up, then just walk away. There's an attitude that comes naturally for an owner that I don't think a "company driver" is ever going to get away with faking. If they try to, it shows.

was it smokey yunick that said"it ain't cheatin' till you're caught"?

 

[staggerlee]

You guys still beating this Dead horse????

i promise to quit...it just won't move.

 

[knightrider]

You guys still beating this Dead horse????

With baseball bats in both hands.