Lower funded dive question (1 Viewer)

[James]

With all the dive talk lately this brings up a question. Do or have the higher funded teams ever paid the low buck guys to lose?

I mean, they offer 10k (or whatever amount) to do a burn out and 60' hit while the paying team gets the win.

Seems a good way for the Haddocks and othersnto make the next race.

 

[ol21stud]

A well known racer had a sponsor that paid him an excellent (at the time) $3000. for winning any of the 3 sanctioning bodies national events. This was back in the 70's when NHRA, AHRA and IHRA had about 25-30 national events total.
To win the typical 8 qualified car event the winner would receive $3000. from the sanctioning body and the RU was paid something like $1200. Semi's paid something like $600. and 1/4 finals $300. I could look it up but this probably accurate as I wrote the checks (and cashed them of course)
Sponsored racer who typically would win most races would straight up win his 1st round over a leaker and then go to his next opponent who he typically also had covered and offer him an additional $600. to add to the second round loser $600. That meant for taking a 2nd round dive, he would get a RU equaling $1200. and not have to beat up his stuff trying to beat somebody he probably couldn't beat 19 out of 20 times.
The big sponsored racer would then go to his final round opponent and offer him $1500. to add to the races $1200. RU money for a total of $2700. so he would take a dive.
Sponsored racer would then win the race and it's $3000. purse, plus net another $900. from his now very happy sponsor. His reputation would increase along with his match race fee that also made his racing highly profitable.
The runner up racer taking a dive in the final round didn't have to kill his stuff to be runner up with $2700. instead of just the tracks $1200. RU money. His chances of winning were less than 50-50% anyway plus being RU also helped his match race bookings, so he was happy too.
The winner was one smart racer and an even smarter businessman.
Yeah, stuff has been happening every since race wins paid money.

 

[Pete]

Back in the mid to late 90's, low buck teams used to qualify all the time. Big buck teams that DNQ'd would pay a handsome fee for them to "pull out" so they would be inserted as the alternate. Which is why NHRA doesn't allow pro alternates anymore

 

[Usual password less 1]

Back in the mid to late 90's, low buck teams used to qualify all the time. Big buck teams that DNQ'd would pay a handsome fee for them to "pull out" so they would be inserted as the alternate. Which is why NHRA doesn't allow pro alternates anymore

That would be true!

 

[ANDY]

that would be the Paul Smith rule ... we made more then the winner made on race day
sometimes letting whoever back in.. NHRA didn't like that cause they didn't get a cut
which says a lot how much they care about the racer

 

[mick]

Back in the mid to late 90's, low buck teams used to qualify all the time. Big buck teams that DNQ'd would pay a handsome fee for them to "pull out" so they would be inserted as the alternate. Which is why NHRA doesn't allow pro alternates anymore

they finally fixed the problem; only attract 11-16 cars per event , the low buck teams still qualify all the time! (with exception of 2-3 events per year)

 

[qtermile14]

Back in the mid to late 90's, low buck teams used to qualify all the time. Big buck teams that DNQ'd would pay a handsome fee for them to "pull out" so they would be inserted as the alternate. Which is why NHRA doesn't allow pro alternates anymore

At the World Finals held at Ontaio Motor Speedway, when Shirl Greer had his bad fire, I remember hearing a conversation in which the 2nd alternate who was still in the championship hunt making a deal with the 1st alternate in case Shirl Greer did not make the 1st round.

 

[Pete]

that would be the Paul Smith rule ... we made more then the winner made on race day
sometimes letting whoever back in.. NHRA didn't like that cause they didn't get a cut
which says a lot how much they care about the racer

I didn't want to mention names, but Andy can speak to it better. I was talking with Hoover after a non-qualifying effort (18th) at the '96 Keystones (yes Jeff, THAT event!) and he was livid (and if you knew Hoover, it took a LOT to get him that mad) because Bazemore also didn't qualify (17th) and was trying to get Smith to pull his entry...well, I guess the price wasn't right and some 'newbie' whooped everyones asses that day, including T Ped in the finals!!

 

[Pete]

that would be the Paul Smith rule ... we made more then the winner made on race day
sometimes letting whoever back in.. NHRA didn't like that cause they didn't get a cut
which says a lot how much they care about the racer

not to derail, but the sanctioning body not getting a cut......I ran a program at New England Dragway, that cost the track $0. I took care of the purses, sponsorships, etc and it attracted 20 additional cars twice a month who paid $25 at the gate to race ($800/mo), plus crew tickets, food and fuel sales, etc. They came after me for a cut of the sponsorship money. Of course my argument was that the sponsor money brought the cars in and paid the track more then $1000 each month they wouldn't have had....sometimes greed just gets in the way

 

[Al]

I believe what maybe started the "dive" question, may have been this weekend's "dive" by Troy Jr. in eliminations (?) But when it comes to qualifying, there are two sides of this, in my opinion. Like Pete said, many years ago, NHRA stopped inserting Pro alternates. At the time I didn't blame them. I remember one incident where a sponsored FC racer that was still in the hunt for a championship tried to buy out a qualified low buck independent racer, when he didn't qualify at the World Finals. However, that was then, this is now.
I recently sent NHRA an email when the "Winternationals" had short fields in every class except Funny Car. Jason Rupert qualified 11th, but blew up and couldn't make the 1st round. There were two good alternates available, but due to that rule, Funny Car had a 1st round bye like all of the other classes. It seemed like a real shame and I feel that with short fields being so common these days, maybe it is time to bring back the pro alternate program. This way, the fans (which pay the bills) might have a better chance to see more side-by-side-racing. Just my opinion.

 

[Pete]

I believe what maybe started the "dive" question, may have been this weekend's "dive" by Troy Jr. in eliminations (?) But when it comes to qualifying, there are two sides of this, in my opinion. Like Pete said, many years ago, NHRA stopped inserting Pro alternates. At the time I didn't blame them. I remember one incident where a sponsored FC racer that was still in the hunt for a championship tried to buy out a qualified low buck independent racer, when he didn't qualify at the World Finals. However, that was then, this is now.
I recently sent NHRA an email when the "Winternationals" had short fields in every class except Funny Car. Jason Rupert qualified 11th, but blew up and couldn't make the 1st round. There were two good alternates available, but due to that rule, Funny Car had a 1st round bye like all of the other classes. It seemed like a real shame and I feel that with short fields being so common these days, maybe it is time to bring back the pro alternate program. This way, the fans (which pay the bills) might have a better chance to see more side-by-side-racing. Just my opinion.

Agreed Allan, if its a legitimate reason then an alternate should be inserted. Maybe NHRA reinstates, but THEY make the decision on a case by case basis (i.e., Rupert blew up and does'nt have spares...ok, #17 get ready)

 

[mgty3whlr]

 

[TD5023]

Back in the mid to late 90's, low buck teams used to qualify all the time. Big buck teams that DNQ'd would pay a handsome fee for them to "pull out" so they would be inserted as the alternate. Which is why NHRA doesn't allow pro alternates anymore

Could alternates at the time earn points? I know that today in the sportsman classes, an alternate can win rounds but they don't gain any points beyond the minimum for turning in a tech card. If that's also something that changed, I'd be interested to know when.

 

[Pete]

Could alternates at the time earn points? I know that today in the sportsman classes, an alternate can win rounds but they don't gain any points beyond the minimum for turning in a tech card. If that's also something that changed, I'd be interested to know when.

I don't believe so...I think they just earned round money