Health Of The NHRA Pro Teams... (2 Viewers)

[Jim]

Does IHRA run at any tracks that you could get a top of the line fuel car down?

MIR is good. So is Rockingham.

 

[Jay]

There is no way that I would believe that the American LeMans Series gets better ratings than NHRA drag racing. But ALMS will have two races on NBC for the 2008 season and three races on ESPN. They had races on NBC and CBS this year.

Jim

Actually, the two on NBC and CBS will be rated much higher than those on ESPN...you'll see that in the Nielsen book. This is why the airtime is more expensive.

The formula is the same for the IRL, too...

 

[Jim]

Here is an example...Jim, I have just nominated you to be my Funny Car crew chief...I am going to pay you $180,000 base ($7500 per race), plus I will give you 10% of what the car makes. BUT, if the car doesn't make the Countdown, I expect you to remain tuning the car for the last 8 races, although you will do so with no pay? Ready to get started...?

No, but I will for $180,000 for the whole season, plus 10% of the winnings plus a $25,000 bonus for making countdown #1 and another $25,000 for making the final countdown.

When do I start?

Jim

 

[Jay]

No, but I will for $180,000 for the whole season, plus 10% of the winnings plus a $25,000 bonus for making countdown #1 and another $25,000 for making the final countdown.

When do I start?

Jim

You now see my point exactly...You need to be paid for the season, not just for the first 16 events...Thats the problem that the countdown has created...In a day where the NHRA is still "new" to corporate America, and STARTING to build some credibility, the NHRA sticks a HUGE fork in this progress, and causes sponsors to start using the Countdown as a bargaining chip. Frankly, it is a very good negotiating tool for them. The fact that they use it, certainly serves their purpose. But, it makes it VERY difficult for the racer because he still has the same expenses for the season. The ONLY way it would make sense is if the racer could park the car for the last 8 races if he didn't make the chase, because the sponsor opted out of the last 1/3 of the races. This of course, would create a whole new set of problems with personell, etc...

The bottom line is this. Whether or not the Countdown is good or bad for the fans is indifferent right now. The fact that it is severely crippling the teams ability to ascertain adequate funding with solid deals is what the problem is. I can understand the NHRA's point that they want to implement things that create more fan appeal, but at what expense are they willing to do that? The thought might be ok, but the timing is terrible...You have to pour the foundation before you put up the house...

 

[TJ]

Some of you are reading into this way to much..The health of the NHRA is very strong and only the strong will participate...The NHRA is far from 'new' to corporate America...
The show will go on w/ or w/out any of us voicing our opinions...The risk management group in Glendora (subs to a Bev Hills agency) is very proud of their countdown situation and it will be this way for some time...according to the suits Mon night @ the awards dinner....

 

[paoldtimer]

The real problem here is that this doesn't really effect the fan nearly as much as it completely screws the team owner
..

Eh, not so.
The "fan" is affected many ways in all of this. At the ticket gate (increased prices), at the souvenir trailer (increased prices) even the TV coverage.

While I won't claim to know how much all this hospitality stuff costs, I'm pretty sure the team owner is being compensated via the corporate sponsor. If they aren't then they need to re-negotiate some contracts.

As a fan, my only options are to pay the increase or stay at home....then someone is going to feel the pinch when my dollars aren't being spent at the track or at the trailer. X that by many other fans.

 

[downtime]

Ted,

Put into context... over the course of next year's 24 race season, that's $60,000 that goes to NHRA instead of teams for a souvenier trailer.

Drag race teams are not multi-billion dollar corporations that have multi-million dollar advertising budgets. Figuring a $2 million budget for a single car team, that $60,000 goes a long ways when you consider it is 3% of their total budget.

But... the trailer costs are factored into the contract for sponsorship so it is passed through to the corporate wallets, just as are wages and salaries, travel expenses, end all the other stuff that goes into managing a professional team. There is much that happens away from the track with many sponsorship deals and the job of the team's financial people is to provide a benefit to the sponsors that justifies their investment, like in any other business.

 

[mike]

Does anyone know how many owners actually make money racing, ie. wind up in the black at the end of the season? I recall WJ saying he would park his car permanently if he had to start spending his own money. It sure looks like Max Naylor won't accept partial expense coverage. Are these guys the exception?

 

[Rick Rzepka]

most owners in nhra are wealthy business men,schumacher,kalitta,powers,mr black, evan knoll...........on and on. nhra is their playground. there are no up and comers,imagine if these muti millionaires deceided im tired no more drag toys? the pits would be empty. the teams in same class is a joke with the points chase down. easily manipulated. (way togo matt smith) i will keep watching and look forward to winternats . i hope someday the pay goes up for the effort.

 

[Jay]

most owners in nhra are wealthy business men,schumacher,kalitta,powers,mr black, evan knoll...........on and on. nhra is their playground. there are no up and comers,imagine if these muti millionaires deceided im tired no more drag toys? the pits would be empty. the teams in same class is a joke with the points chase down. easily manipulated. (way togo matt smith) i will keep watching and look forward to winternats . i hope someday the pay goes up for the effort.

You are absoleutely correct...It is because of the reliance on the Don Schumachers, Evan Knolls, Connie Kalittas, etc...that the NHRA is NOT healthy...If they, as someone said earlier, decided to curb their Nitro addictions, the NHRA would be in a very, very vulnerable position....Facts are facts...It takes $2,500,000-$3,000,000+ per season to run these cars..I think that all of you would be VERY alarmed to find out how many of them are not "owner/driver" susidized....

Even does this simply because he loves it...Same for Kalitta...Don Scumacher does a great job getting sponsors, but I assure you that he is reaching deeper than many of you think into his own pockets to do this...And I think its great, while they agree to do it...Look at Ken Black...I mean, Summit is a great company, but do you think they are fufilling a complete "Ken Black" level budget...? No way!

Tom Hammonds, Koretsky, Jeg, Doug Herbert, Hartley, Bill Miller, Lucas, Head, Gilbertson, etc...What would happen if they all decided to stop spending money on racing...? Nuff said?

 

[headporter]

I don't know much about them...Can you give us a bit of info on that..?

If you as you say are one who Chases after Sponser $$$$ and your not looking or are Uninformed about what is printed in ND, or haven't even talked to Sportmans racers..

Perhaps this may be a slip up in your Stats Dept to be able to show. Who else could use the services of who ever it is your trying to talk into spending money. I am not sure about how you go begging for money or who you are doing it for. But a better understanding on Drag racing on a whole might be a good Idea.

Asking some one on a message board for more info is good in the right context. Perhaps if it was a technical question. Not knowing what comp. ss. stock and any other class pays is pretty easy to find if you actually looked or walked the pits.

And since you might not know it.. Class pay is one thing.. WOW 1200 bucks.. yes I am RICH now. Class contingency money is a year long battle to receive. Maybe you could ASK someone to recite Dan Flechers quest for the championship.. In On the road with him a couple few years ago.

And who is DPR's pr people so we can contact them. oh wait I just seen him at the track last week.

Where's Skuza when we need him.

 

[Jay]

If you as you say are one who Chases after Sponser $$$$ and your not looking or are Uninformed about what is printed in ND, or haven't even talked to Sportmans racers..

Perhaps this may be a slip up in your Stats Dept to be able to show. Who else could use the services of who ever it is your trying to talk into spending money. I am not sure about how you go begging for money or who you are doing it for. But a better understanding on Drag racing on a whole might be a good Idea.

Asking some one on a message board for more info is good in the right context. Perhaps if it was a technical question. Not knowing what comp. ss. stock and any other class pays is pretty easy to find if you actually looked or walked the pits.

And since you might not know it.. Class pay is one thing.. WOW 1200 bucks.. yes I am RICH now. Class contingency money is a year long battle to receive. Maybe you could ASK someone to recite Dan Flechers quest for the championship.. In On the road with him a couple few years ago.

And who is DPR's pr people so we can contact them. oh wait I just seen him at the track last week.

Where's Skuza when we need him.

Hey Bob...I don't know the Sportsman purses off-hand simply because I have never had a reason to know them...As a 5 year subscriber to ND, I am well aware that I can look them up if I need to...

Secondly, I don't "beg" any comapnies for money, and I strongly resent the remark, and the tone in which it was stated...

That being said, I have no idea what you do for a living, but I am well versed in what I do, so while I appreciate the concern, I don't need your advice on how to run my successful company.

In closing, it generally requires the same amount of time and effort to raise $1,000,000 as it does to raise $100,000. While I enjoy watching the Sportsman classes run, and I think that there are a lot of very cool people there, this is precisely why I place my focus on the pro categories for the little that I do in NHRA...Just a simple equasion of economincs...

Thanks,

 

[hellfirejim]

This is an excellent thread that is being talked about using facts. After reading all of these posts there is this continuing thought that keeps popping up in my mind.

I guess you might call it a perfect storm type of deal. Just consider that IF Evan Knoll and Forest Lucas got tired of the way they are being treated and decided to do something about it like maybe buy IHRA or work with Bruton Smith if he bought IHRA to create their own HRA. And suppossed that since the media loves Bruton Smith, a good TV deal would be a no brainer. So you then have good tracks [Bruton's and some of the IHRA tracks], an excellent TV package and the $$$ to pull it off, how long do you think it would take for the Pro teams to shift??????

Yes I know it is a lot of what ifs BUT consider the IHRA has a Nitro funny Car class because the NHRA Pissed off Evan. Not likely? Maybe but consider this, did you ever in your wildest dreams think we [drag racing] would be in the position that we are discussing here?

Just some food for thought.....

jim

 

[Darryl]

I guess you might call it a perfect storm type of deal. Just consider that IF Evan Knoll and Forest Lucas got tired of the way they are being treated and decided to do something about it like maybe buy IHRA or work with Bruton Smith if he bought IHRA to create their own HRA. And suppossed that since the media loves Bruton Smith, a good TV deal would be a no brainer...jim

Even worse Jim. What if all the folks you named decided to QUIT and stop wasting retirement money on RACING! What they might or might not buy becomes a moot point then!

 

[Angus]

Does IHRA run at any tracks that you could get a top of the line fuel car down?

What good would it do for all of the hitters to show up at an event just to do a smoke show.

Jay

Believe it or not, Edmonton has some pretty good racing. It has a 2200 foot elevation, but Millican has laid down a 4.54 @ 325, Gilbertson has the FC record at 4.83 @ 312 (I think), I think best Pro Mod is a 6.10 (Kenny Lang I think) and best Pro Stock is a 6.40 or 6.41, so we do ok up here. The pits are a little tight, but they are getting better with time. AND the beer is way better. Especially Canada brewed Bud!

 

[T.Smith]

Does IHRA run at any tracks that you could get a top of the line fuel car down?

What good would it do for all of the hitters to show up at an event just to do a smoke show.

Jay

With the exception of one track, their tracks aren't bad at all. A couple of them need to be ground after the transition, but we still were able to run good on those.

The biggest problem to me would be the facilitys and space. Those would be lacking for the events they would want to hold.

 

[none]

NHRA = National Hobby Racing Assoc.

This has been true for as long as there has been drag racing. This is what Wally Parks started out to control. He made his living by creating a group to get the local car clubs under one banner (HIS). They paid him to be part of the bigger picture.

My question is a simple one: How many owners at a national event are paid by only sponser dollars to race? If you include the sportsman racers I bet its less than 1% are using someone elses money, now compare that to other forms of racing.

Racing has always been a small circle of sponsers. If you look at both pros and sportsman racing today and just removed two names (Lucas & Torco) from all the cars and drag racing would be on the verge of going out of business.

 

[Jim]

Actually, the two on NBC and CBS will be rated much higher than those on ESPN...you'll see that in the Nielsen book. This is why the airtime is more expensive.

Of course, NBC and CBS still get into more homes than ESPN so that is part of why the ratings are higher.

Jim

 

[Jay]

Of course, NBC and CBS still get into more homes than ESPN so that is part of why the ratings are higher.

Jim

Correct...

 

[Zak]

Does IHRA run at any tracks that you could get a top of the line fuel car down?

What good would it do for all of the hitters to show up at an event just to do a smoke show.

Jay

Facility or track?

Oh, by the way - no NHRA fans seemed to have a problem with the old IHRA Norwalk track. I guess they traded for that fine facility just south of Norwalk... Columbus.

And, while Norwalk was always one of the crowned jewels of IHRA, the racing surface was OK. I think many racers prefer Martin, Rockingham, Epping, Edmonton - and while I can't remember specifically, Tulsa seemed to be a hit.

As far as facility goes, Martin & Edmonton will stand up to any.

A lot (or some) of your NHRA big hitters made some trips to IHRA in the past 2 seasons. I didn't hear of any complaints.

I recall seeing:

• Clay Millican
• JR Todd
• Melanie Troxel
• Mike Ashley
• Bob Gilbertson
• Hilary Will
• Doug Kalitta

I've also seen Capps and Connelly roaming the pits from time to time.

I agree with the original poster about the health of drag racing... not just NHRA. You've got Knoll and Lucas - then Force, Schumacker, Kalitta and Bernstein. Dare I say (and I DO NOT have personal knowledge - so purely speculation) that if Shoe didn't have the efficiencies of a multi-car team he couldn't run anyone of them on their own budget (OK, maybe the Army Car). And how much is Kalitta pulling from his own pocket? I'm not saying those things to be mean - more to say it's just not as healthy as everyone thinks. God bless them for doing it and figuring it out - but if the sport is going to be bigger and better - it can't keep going like this.

Take out Knoll or Lucas or any two of the big race teams (what?? 12 of your Nitro cars are in those 4 teams) and the sports starts to look really weak.

I see it like the small college football team that has a great starting lineup. Then one injury and the holes start looking pretty big.

In a prefect world the two "HRA's" figure out how to play together nicely, quit beating up the back gate and quit skimming sponsors from underfunded teams.