Lets fix the problem with the wheels flying off... (2 Viewers)

[Paul]

One thing the internet has done for us (ok, other than the great porn) is enabled discussions like these where you get input from a really wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives. For example, we have some pro members with many years of experience from right in the heat of the battle and also some strong input from many experienced sportsman level racers.

You've also got some individuals who have a mix of racing and engineering backgrounds giving that side of the perspective.

This is a good thing fellas, I think in general some forum members need to be a little more open minded on discussions like this. For better or worse, its a new world and its foolish not to take best advantage of the positive aspects of it, and trying to blockade the opportunities to have open discussions like this where you can draw from a wide variety of perspectives is foolish.

Many forum members here feel that some of the people who contribute to these discussions aren't qualified or in some other way don't deserve to do so, along the lines of "if you aren't directly involved with a top fuel car, keep your mouth shut".

If that's really the way you guys want it to be, perhaps you should only allow posts from professional team members. But I think that would be a mistake as you would be shutting out a lot of members who can make legitimate contributions to these kinds of discussions.

For me, this newly raised issue on wheel spacers is a pretty good litmus test.

Virgil (who's accomplishments in the sport and perpectives on issues like this one I respect greatly) has already clearly stated how he feels on this issue. In summary he feels wheel spacers are ok and those that use them should be trusted to use them correctly. I'm an old fart myself (no offense Virgil), so this "old school" viewpoint on this issue does have some appeal to me.

But ultimately I feel pretty differently about wheel spacers. I think wheel spacers weaken the hub assembly as Al stated, and with the pressure to get to the staging lanes when time is short (yes, believe it or not I've been there myself) they are much too likely to be mis-assembled, as just happened with Tim Wilkerson's team. So I think they should be phased out of the sport, not all at once because of the economic impact, but over time, probably a season.

But if people really don't want to have these kinds of discussions here I'll go away and leave this forum alone, but with some serious regret.

I care about the drivers and participants in this sport and the sport as a whole, and I wouldn't be taking the trouble to take time away from my business and make posts here if I didn't feel I could contribute to making the sport better. Part of my business actually comes from this sport, so its only natural for me to want to contribute if I can.

Plus, we're just getting started here. We're just at the wheel hubs now, my plan is to work my way through the whole car (just kidding fellas, sort of).

 

[Draw 3D]

That's whey they're not allowed in any other forms of serious motorsports that I'm aware of.

You're unaware of a lot of things and hasn't stopped you yet from making remarks that are negative towards teams and organizations.

As Virgil stated, wheel thickness varies by manufacturer. I just bought some wheel-spacers from a NASCAR team, guess they allow them in NASCAR, after I bought a pair of rear-wheels that were thinner than my old ones. The guy I bought them from said they use them to quickly change wheel-stagger.

 

[Paul]

You're unaware of a lot of things and hasn't stopped you yet from making remarks that are negative towards teams and organizations.

As Virgil stated, wheel thickness varies by manufacturer. I just bought some wheel-spacers from a NASCAR team, guess they allow them in NASCAR, after I bought a pair of rear-wheels that were thinner than my old ones. The guy I bought them from said they use them to quickly change wheel-stagger.

Paul, I'll agree to have made many critical statements about the NHRA, and I still believe most of those to still be on target, and feel free to point out where I'm wrong on any of these statements.

But I need you to point out to me where I've made any negative statements about any racing teams.

Having respectful discussions, acknowledging disagreements when they exist and trying to come to common ground on them is how this great country of ours got started and became so great.

Casting any suggestion to change things or do things differently as being generally "negative" with an implied "not to be tolerated' angle is not how we became so great, its why the commies lost the cold war (and I'm still celebrating that one, hey I still remember duck and cover drills).

And I'm genuinely sorry you got stuck with some wheel spacers, do yourself a favor and buy wheels with the right offsets and use the spacers as frisbees, they're safer that way (uh oh, I got a feeling one might be coming in the direction of my head, back to "duck and cover" after all).

 

[Treeshaker]

Use the wheel spacers without worry, just take the time to install them properly. I have had varying thicknesses in my spare parts tool box at the races for the last 40 years and have never had a stud failure. In this time I have ran everything from bracket I to TF and FC, and most classes in between. Don't usually use them, but when the need occurs, I have no hesitation in putting them on the car.

Open discussions are great, but the problem being discussed needs to be defined by researching the facts before solutions, proceedures and rules are suggested.

An example was the reference to Darrell's tragedy. The person making that statement sounds like he is totally unaware of what was being worked on and by who for chassis safety prior to the accident, or the changes that were made immediately following the accident (prior to the next event) and how the information gathered led to the problem with top fuel chassis construction being ultimately fixed. Because of my personal knowledge, the statement showed the ignorance of the poster, but others will use the statement as a basis of proof for other superflous statements.

Drag racing has a very good safety record, especially considering the rates of acceleration and speeds. There have been from the beginning and are many good people now employed by the sanctioning bodies and on race teams who are constantly working to make the sport even safer. Go to the races and get involved with the teams or sanctioning bodies and you will soon learn the dedication and sincere efforts being made in the name of safety.

 

[Silly Savage]

JR, now I'm really confused

Yes, that is obvious....

So if you think I deserve instructions on what to do with any particular part of my anatomy, you should make it clearer why you think that is warranted.

How about you show us where it is written that the NHRA or any team that ACTUALLY participates in a NHRA event needs to explain a damn thing to YOU. My instructions are basically put up or shut up....coming on this site and going on and on about what YOU think needs to be done is getting old. And if you think the NHRA is doing NOTHING, then refer to your quote at the top of this reply.

 

[yoda]

Nothing against you Martin but I`m thinking if you need a memo telling you to check a specific part after a well publicized accident pertaining to that part, Uuuummm maybe you dont need to be running this type of race car. Or maybe asking for a memo is the "someone else will think for me and therefore I have no further responsibility in the matter" mentality.

Naw.. the memo is the "Cover your Ass and Stay out of the Lawsuit" mentality...

I don't know one fuel team that NEEDS a memo... I was just curious if the Association had sent down an edict that would have taken them out of the legal responsiblity mix. And I guess they sort of have done that now....

 

[Paul]

The accident at yesterday's race was a terrible tragedy.

I hope this time the NHRA will finally take some serious steps to make the occurance of this problem much less likely, it definitely can be done.

No form of motorsports will ever be 100% safe to the competitors and spectators.

But its a serious responsibility of the racing organizations to take reasonable steps to make the racing as safe as possible, for both the competitors and the spectators.

This is a situation where with reasonable steps the problem occurance can be made much less likely without a major impact on the competitors and the racing itself.

 

[Toejam]

paul, the yawn is because these message boards are calm and full of the latest news UNTIL something bad happens. then there are all kinds of people that have THE idea or stand up and say I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!. how about giving credit to the teams and guys behind the scene that ARE all over these situations. like i said above, i doubt ANYONE is saying "lets hope it doesn't happen again next week". Nancy didn't want speculation about the crash because she didn't know how daniel was, but now you are going to speculate on how, what and when something NEEDS to be done. why not just leave it to the guys that are responsable for these cars, because they have hands on knowledge of what happens to these cars.

Good post! Anytime something like this happens, it happened because NHRA was sleeping on the job!

 

[Ugly one]

If I recall correctly, haven't all of the prior stud failures been Strange rearends.(Wilkerson, Toliver now Brown)
I know that the hub thickness on the current Strange is quite a bit thinner than the Chrisman rearends.

 

[Ramos]

I really dont know what went wrong with antrons car, it could of just been the simple fact of when he went into wheel spin, the left rear wheel hopped and when antron peddled the car the wheel hooked really hard at higher rpm and studs sheared off. Your messing with alot of torque and peddling is one of the most damaging things you could do in a top fuel car. Stopping and starting inertia is not forgiving in top fuel. Maybe stronger wheel studs ? Maybe even the simple task of just re checking torque on rear wheels in staging lanes ? I dont really believe anybody was at fault for this. In top fuel , physics is hard to play with and you never no what is going to happen.

 

[mick]

hartley's rt. side rear in '08 with video of sheared studs

YouTube - Top Fuel Dragster Crash (Joe Hartley)

 

[Mooseman]

As I said earlier in this thread actually months back when the other guys had wheels coming off. Anyone who has changed a wheel on a any car knows how they bolt on well imagine when that wheel is trying to turn with all the forces of a top fuel engine making it turn and its gripping on the track well you can only imagine the forces placed on those wheel studs if the wheel/tire suddenly came of the track and all the tension was suddenly released. Must be alot of stress on those studs.

 

[.]

About the only thing I can think to change would be to go to a bigger bolt circle and add more studs. Maybe it's time to go to 8 or 10 studs when dealing with this much torque.

 

[FuelCarBuilder]

Brent...very good idea!

 

[Al smith]

About the only thing I can think to change would be to go to a bigger bolt circle and add more studs. Maybe it's time to go to 8 or 10 studs when dealing with this much torque.

By increasing the diameter of the bolt circle alone you are lengthening the torque moment arm, You wouldn't even need more studs

What Is Torque?

 

[Ugly one]

I spoke to Plueger this morning about that very issue.
He mentioned that if the wheels had a 6.5" to 7" bolt pattern that we wouldn't be discussing this subject.
Once again our thoughts and prayers to the family of the women and all concerned.

 

[n/a]

About the only thing I can think to change would be to go to a bigger bolt circle and add more studs. Maybe it's time to go to 8 or 10 studs when dealing with this much torque.

These were my thoughts exactly....

It would be Simple, Effective, and could be Implemented almost Immediately!!

God Bless the poor woman who lost her life.

Larry Fulton

 

[Toejam]

I spoke to Plueger this morning about that very issue.
He mentioned that if the wheels had a 6.5" to 7" bolt pattern that we wouldn't be discussing this subject.
Once again our thoughts and prayers to the family of the women and all concerned.

My guess is there will be a rule change in the near future!

 

[Ugly one]

My guess is there will be a rule change in the near future!

Joe,
If Plueger has one special quality it's to keep it simple.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

These were my thoughts exactly....

It would be Simple, Effective, and could be Implemented almost Immediately!! Larry Fulton

Simple . . . what do you think teams would do? Drill five more holes in hubs and wheels with no idea what this would do to the strength or integrity?

This, or increasing bolt circle, would relegate all hubs and wheels currently in use to the junk pile. Manufacturers could probably retool and make new parts, but how do you test them? And how many more teams that are just hanging on financially would be sidelined? This is anything but simple.