Jon asher's latest up front commentary

[ColeCoonce]

Jon really doesn't do much more than what is done on drag racing chat pages all over the internet, so handing out awards may be a bit premature.

What has he said that hasn't been hashed around here for weeks now? If nothing else, seeing his pedigree in the sport, why not more SOLUTIONS from Mr. Asher as opposed to just giving us the Cliff notes version of what everyone has been *****in about here on the 'Mater??

The difference being is that, unlike a good portion of -- if not the preponderance of -- internet chatter, what Asher put together was linear, logical, coherent and cogent.

Again, great stuff.

 

[yoda]

The difference being is that, unlike a good portion of -- if not the preponderance of -- internet chatter, what Asher put together was linear, logical, coherent and cogent.

Again, great stuff.

Again, the Cliff Notes version of what everyone's talking about already...

 

[JF]

Again, the Cliff Notes version of what everyone's talking about already...

That may be true but, having known Jon Asher for over 45 years. He has forgotten more about Fuel Cars, Drag Racing, & the NHRA then either I or most everyone else on nitromater knows. Lets just say if Asher speaks, We should shut our mouth and listen. He knows what he's talking about.

35 years: I'm not that old and I believe neither is he. Sorry Jon

 

[Jon Asher]

Per Dave Labs post, while your Indy suggestion sounds good, nothing like that will ever happen without the complete unanimity of the PRO, and that's virtually non-existent. Further, while what you suggest would make headlines, it would anger the vast majority of fans, who don't pay close enough attention to the sport to be cognizant of the problems outlined in my editorial.

Regarding Martin Thomas's post, I can only say in my own defense that I've offered suggestions regarding specific changes for years, but nothing ever happens. And believe me, I am far from the only one to make suggestions. I can't think of one single suggestion that came from outside the confines of the NHRA offices that was adopted.

Wait! I just thought of one. Following IHRA's lead, and at the urging of the then NHRA Media Director, Denny Darnell, NHRA adopted the policy of "sessions," i.e., running all of the pro cars together at specified times. Denny made his argument by telling management that at Indy, for example, if the Star newspaper called up and wanted to know what time "Big Daddy" Don Garlits was going to run so they could get a photo his answer had to be, "Anywhere from eight in the morning until about six. I don't know for sure."
He was able to convince management that instead of giving Top Fuel a percentage of the running time based on their number of entries, if he could tell the media that they'd all run at, say, three o'clock, he could get more media coverage. They went for it.

One last thought on this particular subject. Remember that most of the members here have a greater understanding of drag racing than most fans, so while we may discuss a lot of subjects, most of them are beyond the realm of consideration by most fans.

Also note that what I wrote has been supported and replicated by many others.

Jon Asher

 

[nick name]

Jon, you have no need to defend yourself. Your reputation and body of work has been doing that for you for decades.

As for not having a solution, as far as I'm concerned asking the question is a cheap form of sophistry and almost always arises when there is no significant counter response to the issues put forth.

I can tell you the economy is sick, and that wall street seems to be exercising their intent to fatten their wallets to the detriment of the rest of us in this country. Same goes for bankers and the insurance companies. I would not have the slightest notion of how to fix the problems.

My inability to provide a panacea does not in any way affect the truth.

And after all these years I'll accept Asher's insight, acument, and opinion much more quickly than someone who simply has a keyboard and access to the internet.

 

[Paul]

I think Jon's article accurately sums up the situation, and to be candid, I don't see much improvement or success in the NHRA's future while the current management team is running it. I just don't think they have the business and management skills and experience to improve and grow the organization.

I think this has been proven by a simple contrast to NASCAR which over the past 20 years has shown tremendous growth in fan base, TV revenue, etc.

During this same time the NHRA went backwards, at least in comparison. I'm old enough to remember when even a casual racing fan would mention NASCAR and NHRA in the same breath. The NHRA had an opportunity to at least grow at the same rate as NASCAR, but instead meandered to the point where its now almost just a footnote in the racing world.

An asset buyout and conversion to a for profit organization run by some guys that have their heads screwed on right could be a move in the right direction, but if its run by the same guys I'm not optimistic.

There is a possible light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not an expert on non-profit companies, but I do know that as a not for profit organization the NHRA does have a responsibility to provide their stated "public benefit", which I understand is to provide a safe, fair and competitive environment for drag racing.

No one owns the NHRA but it is controlled by the current board of directors. However in addition to that board, the people who are supposed to receive the "public benefit", in this case the racers, members and fans, do have a right to challenge and strongly influence the organization if they can show that the organization is not doing a good job of fulfilling its stated public benefit, ie safe, fair and competitive racing.

Its possible that the challenge could include forcing a different set of board members, thus taking over control of the organization.

Is this possible or practical?

I don't know, but if it has a chance it seems that as a first step it wouldn't be too hard to start creating a set of action groups and petitions from both racers, members and fans to make it clear that the general group that is supposedly receiving the public benefit from the organization does not feel the benefit is being properly supplied and managed.

Sincerely,

 

[90-percent]

Constructive Suggestions?

Well, it boils down to attitude and that comes from the top. However, with the crony capitalism buddy system in most Boardrooms, including NHRA, The board is going to get a CEO that embodies their values. NHRA's 'values', as I perceive them, is that they should be the only one's out there making any money. Tom Compton fit's the bill nicely, FOR THE NEEDS OF THE NHRA BOARD, which are in direct conflict with the needs of the sport!

The attitude of the power base at NHRA is what's wrong, and I doubt they're going to go out and fire themselves for the good of the sport. They'll continue to scheme to pull all the money possible out of the sport from who ever has any money - sponsors, racers, fans and who ever else depends on NHRA for income.

You've got short sighted dimwits that surround themselves with other short sighted dimwits and anybody that's a good leader with a generous nurturing honorable ATTITUDE simply cannot survive in that corporate culture.

The sport could do GREAT with a man like Roger Penske at the helm. Everything that man does is pretty great, as he's pretty damn humble and is a good judge of character. All his enterprises continue to grow and prosper and he's probably one of the best corporate managers in the world today.

Is there a great man in the mold of a Roger Penske out there to do the job? Nahhhh....never happen, but, when solving problems I always like to envision a blue sky scenario and work back from there.

A tweak here or there with the countdown or track length or some other gimmick is not the fix. All these tweaks lead to horrible unintended consequences. With the present NHRA leadership, positive growth oriented good ideas coming from good people is simply not possible!

-90% Jimmy

PS - I like what Paul above has to say. Good brain storming and problem solving there, Paul.

 

[Jon Asher]

RE Paul Titchener's post, you have some good concepts, but when a simple majority of members signed their proxies over to the then existing Board of Directors back in the early 80s part of that deal was allowing the Board to appoint and dismiss members of the Board without consulting the membership. That meant that the Board completely controlled the organization and no longer had to consult the members -- about anything. That also changed the definition of "member," resulting in the word itself becoming meaningless. A true "member" has voting rights and the like. Now, joining the NHRA is really all about buying a subscription to National Dragster.

I know I may be questioned on this, but I've written about it before. I distinctly remember the staff of Car Craft Magazine consulting an outside attorney about what the proxies really meant. We couldn't use the Petersen Publishing attorney, because he also represented NHRA, and would have either refused to answer our questions, or certainly would have told them we were asking questions.

NHRA may well still enjoy its not-for-profit status (and there is a difference between that and a non-profit, although I cannot provide an exact answer as to what those differences are), but in terms of their dealing with the so-called "members," they simply don't have to, because those naive members back in the 80s simply signed their rights away without realizing they were doing so.

Jon Asher

 

[Paul]

Jon, I imagine others have looked in to this, so it may be beating a dead horse.

But it would seem to me that even though the NHRA effectively eliminated any explicit control of the organization by those who had joined the organization as members, this doesn't relieve them from their overall responsibility of doing a good job of providing their stated public benefit, which is something I believe they must provide both to members and non-members.

If its true that a majority of those who are supposed to be receiving this public benefit, ie the racers and the fans, don't feel that the organization is doing a good job of providing it, then it would seem that there must be steps that can be taken to force the board to do a better job, which could even mean changing the board members.

Drag racing is a pretty tight community, and it would seem to be a reasonable proposition to get a grass roots organization started with the goal of getting a majority of the stated "beneficiaries" (ie racers and fans) of this organization to sign a petition stating that the organization is not doing an effective job of fulfilling their stated goal. These petitions could then be used as the basis of an effort to force the organization to do a better job.

If its true the stated goal of the organization is to provide safe, fair and competitive racing, it seems very out of the expected that the board doesn't at least include a member that directly represents the professional racers, a member that directly represents the sportsman racers and a member that directly represents the fans.

That only makes sense, and to some degree a not for profit organization has to operate in a way that makes sense given their stated goals.

 

[JF]

Jon, I imagine others have looked in to this, so it may be beating a dead horse.

But it would seem to me that even though the NHRA effectively eliminated any explicit control of the organization by those who had joined the organization as members, this doesn't relieve them from their overall responsibility of doing a good job of providing their stated public benefit, which is something I believe they must provide both to members and non-members.

If its true that a majority of those who are supposed to be receiving this public benefit, ie the racers and the fans, don't feel that the organization is doing a good job of providing it, then it would seem that there must be steps that can be taken to force the board to do a better job, which could even mean changing the board members.

Drag racing is a pretty tight community, and it would seem to be a reasonable proposition to get a grass roots organization started with the goal of getting a majority of the stated "beneficiaries" (ie racers and fans) of this organization to sign a petition stating that the organization is not doing an effective job of fulfilling their stated goal. These petitions could then be used as the basis of an effort to force the organization to do a better job.

If its true the stated goal of the organization is to provide safe, fair and competitive racing, it seems very out of the expected that the board doesn't at least include a member that directly represents the professional racers, a member that directly represents the sportsman racers and a member that directly represents the fans.

That only makes sense, and to some degree a not for profit organization has to operate in a way that makes sense given their stated goals.

Paul, One small problem with this idea. You will need to find a majority of racers that don't want to race NHRA anymore. NHRA rulebook Page 19, 1.3.1 Participant Conduct. Any participant who,in the sole and absolute judgement of NHRA (4) engages in conduct detrimental to the sport of racing. or (6) otherwise violates any NHRA rule, Shall have violated this rule reguarding participant conduct.

 

[TSK]

Jon really doesn't do much more than what is done on drag racing chat pages all over the internet, so handing out awards may be a bit premature.

What has he said that hasn't been hashed around here for weeks now? If nothing else, seeing his pedigree in the sport, why not more SOLUTIONS from Mr. Asher as opposed to just giving us the Cliff notes version of what everyone has been *****in about here on the 'Mater??

There is a big difference between Asher saying there are problems at NHRA and some unknown keyboard monkey saying it.
When Asher says something, people know who he is. And most, if not all, people will listen and not dismiss him.
NHRA might not like what he says but they will not dismiss him as just another anonymous Internet poster.

 

[willy]

There is a big difference between Asher saying there are problems at NHRA and some unknown keyboard monkey saying it.
When Asher says something, people know who he is. And most, if not all, people will listen and not dismiss him.
NHRA might not like what he says but they will not dismiss him as just another anonymous Internet poster.

Thanks for that, Ted.

 

[willy]

Again, the Cliff Notes version of what everyone's talking about already...

You really need to take a step back and see who you are critiquing here, Martin. Are you comparing the dialog on the Mater to anything close to what Jon is doing? Maybe the root of the subject matter is similar..but please don't look down on..or degrade..or make light of Jon's articles by comparing any banter here on the Mater as fodder for what Jon is doing. He's written this stuff for years..blackballed by NHRA for doing so. Comparing the way he puts words and thoughts together to anything we've talked about here is somewhat stinky..LOL.

Same as Cole..jeez people..your keyboard is a knife in a gunfight.

Thanks Jon..great piece.

 

[FC Girl]

I find Jon's article extremely interesting. I have been around the NHRA for a couple of years and it has changed, a lot......and not for the better.

It'll be interesting to see what classes open up in the ADRL as time moves forward and the competition for TV time, magazine and newspaper articles, etc.......between the two entities.

I know that we're looking at pro mod's right now (ok, cat's outta the bag) We're not confirmed on anything yet, but rest assured, I will be driving one very soon, either my own or another one owned by someone very close to me who owns 2 pro mods.

btw King nitro: NOT getting RID of the F/C so don't go in a tizzy on me LOL!!!!

 

[willy]

Good luck with that, Nancy!!

 

[FC Girl]

Thanks David, that's an understatement. We have some "stuff" to finalize up, and as we move forward, good things are for sure on the horizon.



Thank you again,

ttyl

 

[yoda]

There is a big difference between Asher saying there are problems at NHRA and some unknown keyboard monkey saying it.
When Asher says something, people know who he is. And most, if not all, people will listen and not dismiss him.
NHRA might not like what he says but they will not dismiss him as just another anonymous Internet poster.[/QUOTE]

Regarding Martin Thomas's post, I can only say in my own defense that I've offered suggestions regarding specific changes for years, but nothing ever happens. And believe me, I am far from the only one to make suggestions. I can't think of one single suggestion that came from outside the confines of the NHRA offices that was adopted.

Jon Asher

I've been reading Jon since the early Car Craft days- he has a grasp on what drag racing was, and a vision of what it should be. Please do not assume I tender him any disrespect for his opinion.

Also note that MANY folks, albiet unknown, A) use the Internet, and B) have a history in some aspect of drag racing. To dismiss opinion without knowing the unknown persons pedigree is to be as blind as everyone claims NHRA to be.
Some who post have been fans as long as Mr. Asher, as well as been involved in some aspect of the sport that would rival his experience, as I'm sure he would concur (although, being an Editor of one of the premier drag racing monthlys in the heyday of the sport DOES lend him a bit of a "leg up" as far as experiences go..). So please do not assume that the supposed "keyboard monkey" might not have a valid point- I'm sure Mr. Asher does not jump to that conclusion.

Ultimately what needs to occur is another sanctioning body (member-vote driven ?) to establish a profitable, safe series on their own tracks, with payouts that are competitive to convince the teams that fill the stands that it would be worthy of their time to be dedicated to that series. The problem is- you can't please all of the people all of the time, and someone will find an issue to make noise about- and that person could be anyone from a monkey to an editor. And once that ball starts rolling downhill, getting it stopped is no easy task and we all wind up back here again. Making NHRA what it should be, as we all pretty much agree, involves making sure that those who make the rules are imbedded within the trenches of the actual sport, as well as having business saavy enough to operate a multi-million dollar entertainment entity. Any volunteers/ recommendations?

 

[clwill]

I'm not an expert on non-profit companies, but I do know that as a not for profit organization the NHRA does have a responsibility to provide their stated "public benefit", which I understand is to provide a safe, fair and competitive environment for drag racing.

I understand the NHRA is organized as a 501(c)(6) organization, or "business league", like the NFL is. From the IRS's definition of this format:

Business Leagues

Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code provides for the exemption of business leagues, chambers of commerce, real estate boards, boards of trade, and professional football leagues, which are not organized for profit and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.

A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry.

Chambers of commerce and boards of trade are organizations of the same general type as business leagues. They direct their efforts at promoting the common economic interests of all commercial enterprises in a trade or community, however.

If you want further detail, the have a publication that goes in detail here.

No one owns the NHRA but it is controlled by the current board of directors.

All organizations such as this have shares and shareholders. It's those shares that were going to be sold to HD Partners. It's not public, but I assume the members of the board own/control all the shares.

However in addition to that board, the people who are supposed to receive the "public benefit", in this case the racers, members and fans, do have a right to challenge and strongly influence the organization if they can show that the organization is not doing a good job of fulfilling its stated public benefit, ie safe, fair and competitive racing.

Its possible that the challenge could include forcing a different set of board members, thus taking over control of the organization.

Is this possible or practical?

Paul, you raise an interesting point. The only way to challenge the ownership is not to try to "take it over" as in a corporate hostile takeover. Given the ownership of the shares by the board, that's almost impossible.

However, a challenge could be raised to the tax-exemption, and that would be a huge and serious threat to the organization. Perhaps enough to force the board to make some fundamental changes. The IRS outlines the kind of things that jeopardize the exemption here. One interesting one is:

A business league will jeopardize its exemption under section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code if it ceases to have as its purpose promoting the common business interest of persons engaged in a line of business.

That sounds a lot like what you're saying. In addition it says: "an organization's net earnings may not inure to the benefit of its members." If one could prove that the board is enriching themselves from this activity, that also jeopardizes the exemption.

But as someone else notes, this challenge couldn't come from someone who wants to race. As the rules state clearly, if you make this challenge, you'd be stopped from competing.

All-in-all an interesting idea. Who wants to try it?

 

[FuelFC]

Some thoughts after reading the posts.

Unfortunatley the only thorn ever in the side of NHRA died and that was Jim Tice. Those were some races to go to.

If there was money available to do an organization as a business person you would have to look at costs overall. Buy an exisiting operation or start fresh. Fresh would be very capital intensive although still may be the best way to go. Do 10-12 big races to start out. It could be done. And done well. Mr. Penske? Mr. Smith?

Stop with the exclusive this and that. Title rights to an event fine, but I remember days of 6 soft drink cars and 10 beer cars and...hell at one time there were competing cam cars. (ok that was a long time ago).

Exclusionary tactics pushed to and in a open free enterprise system does not advance a business.

Open up the mechandise markets to the outside and promote the racers to the fan base as well to the general public. You can but a damn OCC shirt at Wally World but ever seen a NHRA type shirt in there?

Quit trying to bulldog sponsors and open up the slots to first come first served. And again no exclusives for the whole series. If they provide vehicles, fine advertise it, and acknowledge it, but don't let that hamper Yugo from having their own title event.

We were just having a discussion a few minutes ago (nameless to protect their career they still want to race) remembering when we had 4-5 nitro vendors at a track. We had choice. And we had pricing pressure. And we had no issues. They even all parked together and were somewhat cordial to each other.

Martin you hit it on the head it is ENTERTAINMENT pure and simple so you must provide a show for the masses and a good one at a good value. Humpy Wheeler the damn thing if you will. "It is not rocket surgery" here.

And find me Cindy Harmon to run my pre, during, and post production for house owned shows.

Remember divisional events 15 years ago? They actually had spectators in the stands. Really they did. And even further back they actually ran pro catagories at the divisional races. Then they ran for a championship. The world finals was nuts in those days.

Oh yeah and speaking of that 'Championship'. Ditch the Count Chocula Down. You run, you win, and stack up points you are the real winner at the end of the year. No more of this little league soccer no score for the first 7 months everyone in the top 10 is a winner sort of crap. You dominate you win.

2 1/2 -3 days total is plenty of time for the circus or any circus to be in any one town. It can be done. It has been done.

Testing? Hell test away and run every book in show you can.

Is NASCAR a non profit company? IRL? CART?...IHRA? ADRL?

I never signed any paperwork to give up my vote(s) in NHRA. Who did exactly? (realize actual answer is I didn't, have to, it was done for us, without us) :0

Chris, do you have anyone in mind that would go ProBono on this deal?

And btw Mr. Asher I would like to add 2 t-shirts and some bumper stickers to the order when you get that merch program up and running.

 

[funnycarguy]

Thanks for the history review Jon, I was a member back during this time. I don't remember any proxy giving NHRA complete control. I brought this up on another board and was chastised for it. How did NHRA move the governance from membership to shares. I have always wondered how NHRA could sell to HD. I think someone has the info out there who could shed some light on how. Could be a great article.

It all comes down to the governance. I tried to find filings and annual general meeting minutes posted on the web. Couldn't find it. Their status makes them at least accountable to the tax department.

It is so sad that the sport I love seems to be going backwards. Man, I lived for NHRA today and Steve Evans commentary. Now you need some weird satellite channel we don't get unless you are in the commercial pub (bar) business. I finally gave up and I am an addict........