Is Pontiac going.... Now what?

[mick]

.....The number includes what they pay, your salary and bonus, their match of your 401K (or your defined benefit plan), their 1/2 of FISA, their workers comp payments, their unemployment tax contribution, their part of the health insurance, disability, etc., and on and on. It doesn't include amounts you pay (e.g. your part of FISA, your copays, etc.). The reason we sent them is that many employees only think of their take home, but to the company it's often 3X that amount........

exactly correct.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

... there is NO way that those workers are getting $75/hr.I'm willing to bet that figure also includes the benefits that the worker also pays part of.

Of course, the additional compensation is considered in the overall expense to the auto makers. It's impossible to ignore these expenses.

It's also impossible to continue paying these salaries expecting to turn around these auto makers. It's a miserably failed business plan and I personally don't fault the auto makers over the past 50 years as I have watched the UAW flex it's muscles time and again, striking, threatening, etc. for the establishment of these un-heard-of wages.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Out of all the labor that goes into a car, how much of it do you think is union?

When I lived in Michigan, I never met a single union auto worker but, I met a LOT of people who worked for the suppliers who MADE the parts. The non union companies pay low salaries for low skills, higher ones for higher ones. A spring company, for example, paid what I considered to be good money for people who specialized in knowledge of heat treating. You wanna deburr the spring ends? Hope your income requirement is low or that you're working another job.

Just how skilled do production line workers have to be who screw together the parts that all the OTHER companies produce?

And I'm not disagreeing with Bobby by saying that the few union workers involved in producing a car aren't what drives the cost up. I'm certain that a LOT of non union people are involved in producing the parts so a few union people can stand on an assembly line with air powered screwdrivers and wrenches.

Price fixing via unions is called collective bargaining.

Collective bargaining via companies cooperating for each others' mutual benefit is called price fixing.

 

[vegasnitro]

Chris - any more questions about the $75/hr issue? My figure came from CNN.com/financial several weeks ago. One more time . . . if American manufacturers don't get out of these contracts, no amount of bailout will save them. The unions brought this on themselves with never ending demands to justify why members pay dues. As far as dangerous working conditions, have you ever seen what steel workers endure? Auto manufacturers have spent billions to make assembly lines safer and more ergonomic. As always - JMHO

I am in agreement that Detroit has a failed business model. I am also in agreement that we should not bail them out. I just found the $75/hr number outlandish, as my friend makes less than $30/hr. I was considering ancillaries such as insurance, retirement, FISA, etc, I just had no idea the big 3 numbers were that skewed in favor of labor. There is NO business that can survive when the actual cost of the employee is 150% of their take home.

For clarification, my friends get 75% of their salary when laid off, not 95%. Being in "laid off" mode also affects other benefits, as no money is deposited into retirement accounts when you are laid off, it also affects health insurance as oddly enough, there is a copay for medication and doctors visits that does not occur when they are full time status. But still ... $22/hr to sit home is a good gig if you can get it.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Of course, the additional compensation is considered in the overall expense to the auto makers. It's impossible to ignore these expenses.

It's also impossible to continue paying these salaries expecting to turn around these auto makers. It's a miserably failed business plan and I personally don't fault the auto makers over the past 50 years as I have watched the UAW flex it's muscles time and again, striking, threatening, etc. for the establishment of these un-heard-of wages.

Once again Bobby, you're spot on. The business plan these companies use is out of date and just won't work. That's why they're going out of business. I'm (frankly) amazed the American cars are as competitive as they are with all the extra Union expense the Big 3 have.

There's a big display ad in today's St Louis Post Dispatch touting the advantages of a Chevy truck over the Tundra. Isn't it amazing that Chevrolet has to defend it's turf against Toyota pickups??? We would have never dreamed of that in the past. Unbelievable...

 

[Jenn]

exactly correct.

I put a pencil to it a few years ago and for every dollar I pay an employee, it costs me 18 cents more than that dollar.

 

[Jenn]

Out of all the labor that goes into a car, how much of it do you think is union?

When I lived in Michigan, I never met a single union auto worker but, I met a LOT of people who worked for the suppliers who MADE the parts. The non union companies pay low salaries for low skills, higher ones for higher ones. A spring company, for example, paid what I considered to be good money for people who specialized in knowledge of heat treating. You wanna deburr the spring ends? Hope your income requirement is low or that you're working another job.

Just how skilled do production line workers have to be who screw together the parts that all the OTHER companies produce?

I think a system like that encourages self improvement and efficacy of the employee so the employee can get better, move up, be more productive and get paid more. A manditory % pay raise just for making it through the year does not cut it, they have to earn the pay raise.

The cost of living goes up because of higher wages.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I think a system like that encourages self improvement and efficacy of the employee so the employee can get better, move up, be more productive and get paid more. A manditory % pay raise just for making it through the year does not cut it, they have to earn the pay raise.

The cost of living goes up because of higher wages.

There's a reason why it's called a "job" and not a "fun." Right?

 

[vegasnitro]

I put a pencil to it a few years ago and for every dollar I pay an employee, it costs me 18 cents more than that dollar.

Then we should put you in charge of the big 3 Jenn !!!

 

[Jenn]

Then we should put you in charge of the big 3 Jenn !!!

And I work for cheap too! Work up that high performance line!

 

[Jenn]

There's a reason why it's called a "job" and not a "fun." Right?

My Dad used to tell me "Your raise becoms effective as soon as you do!"