Is Knoll done? (1 Viewer)

[Toejam]

Mr. Groom, advertising in drag racing can and is a good investment if the team is a good marketing machine. If it's not then I agree with you. Force and Bernstien have two of the longest advertising deals in not only drag racing and motorsports but in sports period.

On a regional level, my car was seen live by nearly 300,000 people in 2007. my website CapRacing Home Page had over 450,000 hits in 2007. My car was in several newspaper stories in 2007, the documentary about my team was seen on local TV eight times over the holidays and by the feed back I know people watched it. The car was also in a televised parade. Our car also has generated more positive feedback then anything else Capitol sponsors according to the owner of the company. We give out thousands of pictures and posters. That's a good return on investment.

I have had other advertisers approach me wanting to sponsor me. To top it off I was in an ad for Toyota in Time Magazine. The sky is the limit you just got to look for the opportunities and make it happen.

Rich I think NHRA needs to hire you in their marketing dept! To say that NHRA's advertizing and marketing dept. is completely inept would be an understatement!

 

[Nunz]

There are a lot of questions surfacing, and it make take a lot of time before anyone really knows all the answers. First and foremost, I hope Evan does whatever he needs to get healthy. As far as questioning why he dropped the hammer suddenly, and as far as getting upset that there was no notice thereby affecting many teams and people, I think that everyone should be grateful for what this guy has done for several years now, and how he positively affected so many in the sport. I have posted before, as have many others, that having so few individuals keep the Pro show propped up is not a smart business plan, and is very dangerous. Drag racing will always be here, but for there to be a viable Pro show, where it actually makes business sense for owners and sponsors to participate, and not be just a cool place for millionaires to spend money, then the whole deal needs to be re-invented. That is probably a topic for a different thread, but where I am going with this is, in regards to this post's title, I would treat it as though he IS done. The most important thing is that he get healthy, and if his business is still where it needs to be on top of his health, then it would be great to see him return. But the sport needs to be thankful for what he has done, wish him a full recovery, and move forward.

 

[Jay]

Rich, I know how hard you work for your sponsors and drag racing in general. But I'm sorry to disagree with you that drag racing advertising is a good investment. If that was so, then the industry would be awash with money. A lot of these sponsorships like the Autolight deal that just went away were for a lot less than was insinuated and I'd bet a good dinner that there are far more out there that some owners are just a bit embarrassed about revealing.

If the company you're referring to is in Indianapolis and bought the naming rights to the big new stadium there, I'd bet their best sales are in the general automotive and trucking fields regardless of what one feels about their products. Just a comment.

I don't know any of the Knoll/ Torco people, but something just isn't right about this and I'm sure it will come out in the wash soon.

I happen to know about MANY of these deals that you are talking about, and you are right on. These owners are running these deals to look professional and appear financially successful, in hopes that the "big fish" will come along and make things better. The problem here is that there are too many owners in this jam and NO big fish...

And I am talking about some top 5 Pro teams here...I can't get more specific than that, but if you look at most of the owners that have the financial ability to heavily subsidize teams, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who some of these teams are.

The NHRA needs to address this because we all speculated a while back that this would be a disaster if Evan, Lucas, and/or Connie split...well, guess what? Here we go...Hang on for this ride, cause its gonna be a wet one....

Fight the good fight and get healthy soon, Evan...

 

[Jay]

My concern about this is, Why did Evan not come here and tell his side of the story, he always has in the past, as for his head injury, the guy did try to run an IHRA race last year, if the old injury was such an issue, why would he have tried to race a T F car, I agree something is not right here, I have been involved with auto racing the past 55 years, every time a big shot arrived on the scene placing his name on several cars or becomes an owner of a large team they disappear faster than a piece of cheese in a mouse trap, the last one I was around Andy Evans ran 5 cars in the Indy 500, also had Christen Powell in the NHRA, no one has heard Boo from him in many years. I told my youngest son several Months ago, just wait this guy Knoll will disappear from the scene soon, then the NHRA will find that they can't allow an owner too control so many teams, it's not just the cars that NHRA has lost, many family's were dependent on their income from Evan, being this late in the off season there are not a lot of jobs out there.

Jim Jannard, John Menard, are Billionaires, no one has ever seen these guys go on an ego trip and plaster their names all over a bunch of race cars, they do have their own teams and do some extra support for others, Connie Kallita is in the same mold, you don't see him getting involved outside of his own team.

You are correct...oh, and Andy actually had 7 Team Scandia cars, but at that point, it doesn't matter...lol

You should know that Andy did that to make a splash, but he was helped by the fact that in that time, the IRL was running cars that were built over a 5 year span, so he was able to acquire a LOT of equipment cheap, but he still spent almost $2,000,000.

 

[Suzie Q]

The NHRA needs to address this because we all speculated a while back that this would be a disaster if Evan, Lucas, and/or Connie split...well, guess what? Here we go...Hang on for this ride, cause its gonna be a wet one...

You really can't put Connie in this catagory. His company is not a race sponsor. He has his 4 cars and does his own thing. apples to oranges!

 

[Jay]

You really can't put Connie in this catagory. His company is not a race sponsor. He has his 4 cars and does his own thing. apples to oranges!

Suzie, what I meant by that is that he has 4 cars that he funds, for the most part, himself (with SOME offset by sponsorship, of course..).

What would happen if he woke up one day and decided that hedidn't want to reach into his own pocket for $4-$5,ooo,ooo per year anymore....? We'd certainly lose at least 2 more cars...

 

[Suzie Q]

Suzie, what I meant by that is that he has 4 cars that he funds, for the most part, himself (with SOME offset by sponsorship, of course..).

What would happen if he woke up one day and decided that hedidn't want to reach into his own pocket for $4-$5,ooo,ooo per year anymore....? We'd certainly lose at least 2 more cars...

I see where you are coming from. But the one thing about Connie is he spends his money on race cars, airplanes and good bottles of wine! (That he has been seen drinking from red plastic cups!!!) That is his life and I really can't see him changing.

 

[Jay]

I see where you are coming from. But the one thing about Connie is he spends his money on race cars, airplanes and good bottles of wine! (That he has been seen drinking from red plastic cups!!!) That is his life and I really can't see him changing.

Gotcha.....We thought that this was Mr. Knoll's life too, though...I'm just sayin'....

 

[Dave]

It can't imagine it would, but I'm hoping this Torco / Knoll thing doesn't screw up Donnie & Hollie's deal with the Mike Ashley car being auctioned at Barrett-Jackson next week.

Dave

 

[none]

As I see this it is three issues. The first is Evans health and what needs to be done for his recovery. The second is business and unless he has a contract with a medical out option he is going to have many legal problems. To many people are in trouble for this season. Some may never had had a chance to be at the level they are without Evans help but, now they have big bills to pay without the support they had before. And last what will be left when he is better. Will people stand in line to welcome him back after this mess. I would think some will because they know the person but, strickly from a business side it would be buyer beware.

 

[none]

Wayne, I think you got it. Still so many questions.
Lee
Nitroclovers

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Well I definitely don't come here to read about or write about taxes, but since that is all I do, I'll clear the air a little bit.

The IRS is really sensitive about somebody claiming their hobby as a business. Rich people with ranches, race horses (these two are by far the most popular) and race cars . . . who take cash from an unlrelated venture (being a doctor is by far the most popular) get heavily scrutinized by the IRS.

There is a presumptive rule (IRC Sec 183(d) for those with no life) that says an activity generating a loss for 3 of 5 consecutive years is presumed to be a hobby (2 of 7 years for horses . . . damn lobbiest!).

If you are Torco race fuels, and the advertising doesn't create a loss, you can spend all you want if it makes sense on a pre-tax basis. Even if it does create a loss, and there are good business reasons for what you are doing, the presumption of a hobby can be overcome.

Personally, I'd be shocked if Evan was changing his direction simply because of the hobby loss rules. He's been great for the sport, and I certainly hope everything is OK with him.

This reminds me of a question I've wondered about. Let's say you raced for five years and, in each of the five years, had $50,000 in winnings, sponsorship, etc. Let's say you also had $60,000 in expenses each year.
Would it be illegal to only ELECT to deduct $40,000 in expenses each year, showing a $10,000 profit and, I would assume, enabling you to still call it a business?

I'd sure rather pay taxes on $150,000 (the $10,000 profit and the $20,000 you didn't claim each year) instead of $550,000 (the $250,000 that you won plus the $300,000 that you couldn't deduct as a hobby) in that example. Would it be illegal to not claim all your deductions just to show a profit? ( so you can call it a business and claim the deductions that you DID take? ) Yeah, we know the intent of what I'm asking but, I want to know if you can do it.

Yeah, you gotta love their one way streets. If you don't show a profit in more than two out of five years, it's a hobby and you can't claim expenses, even though you'll STILL have to pay taxes on winnings as INCOME. If they say you're not in it to make a profit and can't deduct expenses, YOU should be able to use the same reasoning and say "By your own definition, I'm not TRYING to make a profit and, therefore, can't be expected to pay INCOME TAXES on my winnings if it's a hobby and not a business!"

Fair is fair. If you can be expected to pay taxes on hobby winnings, you should be able to deduct hobby expenses. They stick it to you if you win but, don't know you when you lose.

 

[Paul]

Let's say you raced for five years and, in each of the five years, had $50,000 in winnings, sponsorship, etc. Let's say you also had $60,000 in expenses each year.
Would it be illegal to only ELECT to deduct $40,000 in expenses each year, showing a $10,000 profit and, I would assume, enabling you to still call it a business?

One way to do this is to "capitalize" some of your expenses, which means instead of deducting them all in the year they occurred you deduct some of them in a future year. Typically this is done on things with lasting long term value, ie a machine or a car, and the IRS requires that you do this on items like that. However it can also be done on "research and development" efforts, such as your effort to develop a better racing engine, since this is an expenditure that has long time value that will pay back to you over time, so the money you spend this year on this effort will have value to you over several following years.

By adjusting how much of the expenses you capitalize you can keep a current year profitable while also being able to eventually deduct the expenses at some tax year in the future.

Good luck, and if we end up in the same jail cell we can bs about drag racing.

Paul T.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

One way to do this is to "capitalize" some of your expenses, which means instead of deducting them all in the year they occurred you deduct some of them in a future year. Typically this is done on things with lasting long term value, ie a machine or a car, and the IRS requires that you do this on items like that. However it can also be done on "research and development" efforts, such as your effort to develop a better racing engine, since this is an expenditure that has long time value that will pay back to you over time, so the money you spend this year on this effort will have value to you over several following years.

By adjusting how much of the expenses you capitalize you can keep a current year profitable while also being able to eventually deduct the expenses at some tax year in the future.

Good luck, and if we end up in the same jail cell we can bs about drag racing.

Paul T.

LOL, sounds like my first year as an owner-operator in the trucking business. If I'd taken everything allowed to me due to depreciating and first year expensing, I could have legally shown around a $7,000 loss (wasting that $7,000 in deductions for future years). By playing "price is right" and juggling the amounts, I had a perfectly legal 68 cent income for 1996.

The next to the last time I hit the calculator, I came up with a five dollar and some cent income, which I almost accepted. Then I looked at the tables to be sure. Under the "there will be no new taxes for the middle class" Clinton Administration, I would have actually had to pay $1 in income tax on five dollars income!!!

 

[XDoodlebugger]

It seems to me this is a business decision by a CFO who is now in charge of a business instead of the guy who founded the company and loves racing. The timing of this announcement is just plain wrong, too many people effected in a negative way. The stress brought on by causing hardship would be much more than the stress of watching your teams compete.

 

[rosco]

It seems to me this is a business decision by a CFO who is now in charge of a business instead of the guy who founded the company and loves racing. The timing of this announcement is just plain wrong, too many people effected in a negative way. The stress brought on by causing hardship would be much more than the stress of watching your teams compete.

Was Evan or his Family the founder of this oil busuness?

 

[rocketman]

Thanks so much Joe I appreciate that. I tried the NHRA route and they didn't want me and neither does anyone else. I posted that to prove a point that drag racing isn't a good value for the dollar.

The truth is nothing is a good value for the dollar unless the person marketing the product or service knows what he's doing and give it 200 percent every day. By the way Joe, I appreciate your passion for the sport too.

 

[Rajunz]

It seems to me this is a business decision by a CFO who is now in charge of a business instead of the guy who founded the company and loves racing. The timing of this announcement is just plain wrong, too many people effected in a negative way. The stress brought on by causing hardship would be much more than the stress of watching your teams compete.

EXACTLY what I was thinking........................ Someone finally stepped up before the entire fortune was squandered away....................

 

[rocketman]

We all owe this gentleman, Evan Knoll a giant thank you. If the Skull drivers are thanking him and they are the fans should follow their lead. Shake his hand and thank him for the past two years and pray for a full recovery. I think he wanted to continue on and make it work.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

We all owe this gentleman, Evan Knoll a giant thank you. If the Skull drivers are thanking him and they are the fans should follow their lead. Shake his hand and thank him for the past two years and pray for a full recovery. I think he wanted to continue on and make it work.

There you go. The man was still a great net benefit to the sport. You don't throw away 99% because you don't like the 1%. I'm on his side as far as it's his money and his business. (I'll stand up for people I don't even like as far as that goes, and Mr. Knoll isn't one of the ones I don't like, LOL.) I don't care if the reasons are the truth or not. I've been "released" from jobs where I knew the official reason wasn't the real one. If they don't want me, I don't want them. If he doesn't want to sponsor you this year, IMO, you shouldn't want his money.

Reminds me of when David Reher called it quits and people complained, as if HE owed them something, instead of them owing him a thank you for years of wonderful entertainment.